Milatary Camoflauge

When I was in Iraq at the start of the invasion and a year after, there were tons of people wearing woodland, mostly reservists and the guard (I was active). Some would wear desert cammo with black boots, green cammo with desert hats, total mismatch. The people I talked to said that their unit didn't get their desert uniforms, or just bits and pieces, and were told they would get the rest when they hit the ground. So they just wore whatever desert stuff they had. It would of looked better if they had a uniform, um, uniform, but they were told to wear whatever desert stuff they had, even if tops and bottoms mismatched. Just another example of how woefully unprepared we were for Iraq. At Bragg, we were getting ready to go for months, so we knew there was a possibility Bush would force this invasion soon. Why our logistics were so horrendous, I just don't know.

who cares if it matched or not as long as it keeps you safe your not there to make a fashion statement you are there to win a war.

devilwasp, who are you going to "outflank"? you dont weem to understand how things work over there. there is no uniformed enemy. you drive down the street and all around you are civilians with kalishnikovs. most of them are good guys. you have no way of knowing who is the enemy untill they open fire on you. there are almost no premeditated attacks performed on the part of the u.s. army, unless you count house raids, and its kinda hard to be quiet when you are kicking in a door. so tell me. who are you going to sneek up on? AND, if your activly sneeking up on someone, do you think all you velcro pockets will spontaniously open on their own?

and where do you get the intestinal fortitude to tell me "dude, ur so wrong"? arent you like 15 or something? im a NCO in the united states cavalry. im a damn scout, an armored recon specialist. its my job to sneak behind enemy lines, check them out, and wreak a little havoc before i get out of there. i am a profesional, and i think i know a little about sneaking around. i spent a year in sadr city, dealing with that freak al sadr. just got back in april. what it takes to be effective and stay alive is still fresh in my brain. real fresh. if you want to be a snake eater someday, listen to the guys who have been there

weirdo, llok at the number of civilian deaths in this war compared to the other wars of this century, and you will see that we really arent doing that bad. you just hear about it more now. how many innocent germans and japanese do you think we killed in our bombing runs? but it had to be done, to win the war. we werent really even trying back then. we are now. and so you know, the R.O.E. that was beat into us before every mission was very clear, and we followed it for fear of a courts marshal. Do not shoot back untill you see the enemy that is firing, you are sure you can hit him, and there are no civilians in the way. no one over there wants to be responsible for killing civillians. you dont want it on your head and you dont want to get locked up.

why is that we can put a man on the moon yet still can't give our troops the correct camo clothing
i'd be pretty annoyed if i was sent to iraq camo'd to fight northern europe, i'd be spotted a mile off

but they re not wearing snow gear they justt have green flak jackets and it dosent matter no one will be tricked if all of a sudden the marines started wearing desert camo they re in a city where ar they going to blend in? so it really dosent matter.

Cavscout

If your an NCO in the regulary US military then l`m Colonel David H Hackworth.
Give Devilwasp a break his is still intitled to his view and he was not talking in the context of Urban Guerilla Warfare in Iraq he was making a general statement.He was trying to prove the point that Velcro on a Flak jacket is more of a liability than a practicallity.And if you had any Military training you would no that it is possible to out Flank in an urban area

[edit on 26-6-2004 by weirdo]

[edit on 26-6-2004 by weirdo]

thank you weirdo

cavscout if you a scout then you should know that if the shooting starts then dont just start fireing. you id the target then fire.
also your an armour scout that means you scout out where tanks go not where infantry go. tanks go in second to support infatry, not first.
also so what if im 15 ? i might not have the same exsperience but i know at least a little of what to do. also when in urban enviroment you have an advantage if your quiet you can tell where the enemy is and you can sneak up on em.

actually you don't have time to id the shooter if they are throwing grenades at you also if you are in a foreign country the person firing at you knows that place its his hometown he knows it better than you also he will be protected by his friends and family so trying to sneak up on them good luck

do you really think the fighter will bring his family with him?
or his house will always be conveniantly placed in the combat zone?
sersioly man low chances. also even if he does know the area he isnt a well trained soldier he will panic.
also who says they will have nades? most attacks you see are with RPG's not normal grenades. also if the squads in proper formation then your sound

I would say that it must be a supply shortage. Not that it matters up close. Camoflague is useless at close range because at that range either your in the enemies line of sight or not. But hey look what the Afrika Korps were wearing during WWII. On the other hand figure a lot of fighting is happening near were most people in Iraq live. That would be near the Tigris River and what ever that other one is called. And thats were most of the vegetation would be.

devil wasp they will panic? two words for you suicide bomber they dont panic









West Point
Out



[edit on 27-6-2004 by WestPoint23]

weirdo. who are you to claim i am not what i say i am? i am a 19d20d3, a cavalry scout, in the 2nd acr. what, do i have to scan my i.d. card to prove it? that was a kinda hasty remark you made there. and do you really think i suggested you cant outflank enemy in a MOUT enviornment? mabey you should read my posts a little better before you slander me. everything i have said relates to my expeirience in iraq. now, obviously the correct color of body armor and BDUs will make a large difference in a field enviornment, but it all looks the same against asphalt. as far as the velcro goes, develwasp is right about the noise discipline problems it creates, but that problem is not relevent to the MOUT enviornment we are involved in around baghdad. also, i guess in all fairness i should add that i am in an armored cavalry regiment, and as such we are almost always mounted, so i guess that has sway on my opinion. there really isnt much in the way of conventional infantry in sadr city, at least not american. we used the ICDC (iraqi civil defence corp) for most dismounted opperations.

also, devilwasp, your coment about me being armor recon. that dosent mean i only perform recon on armor. that means that I am armored. we (scouts) traditionaly use bradley fighting vehicles, however my current assignment in the 2nd acr puts me on a truck. i am actualy a tow missle gunner in an anti-tank pltn. i have a tow missle system and a 240B (the same thing as the old m-60 with 7.62 nato) on top of a scout hummer.
although we do perform recon on enemy armor, we also look for all enemy assets. in truth, we do more recon on the routes and obsticals (anything that will get in the way, from a river to a mine feild) than anything.

and by the way, the question everyone SHOULD be asking is how long velcro lasts in a feild enviornmet. with the sand, dirt, heat, ect. combined with the constant usage it gets, our body armor velcro began failing about half way through and became a real pain, but it did have buttons on the velcro that no one even knew were there untill the velcro stoped sticking.
i think we should stick with BDU, but that is mostly because i dont want to shell out the money for new uniforms, and nothing to do with the velcro. they give a clothing allowance once a year, but it still sucks.

ive taken a liking to this forum and will prove my service if need be to remain in good standing. however weirdo, i think you were just using childish slander

Devilwasp. your being 15 says you do not have the experience to back up what your saying. while you are correct in saying the the Guy claiming to be in the u.s cav has no way to prove it who are you to call him a liar. secondly. while i am not millitary. i am in law enforcment. The rules are diffrent but the idea is the same in both situations. as long as you go home and the other guy sees a body bag or is behind bars you have done your job. when bullets fly your first human instinct is to hit the dirt. As a cop i have to i.d. my threat before i shoot. in the millitary you shoot anything that you deem could be a threat. your life over the enemy/ civilians that may be in the area. its war inoccents get hurt. oh well live with it.

oh and btw we use velcro on our tac. vests and kevlar vests. its specially made for govt. use and is near silent. visit any local police supply store and ask about the Threat Level 3 Markinson Tac. vest and they will show you

[edit on 27-6-2004 by tealc]

and devilwasp, not to seem like im picking on you or anything, but your comment about tanks goining second to infantry in a support position is totaly false. those tactics havnt been used since the first half of WW2. although armor is capable of providing overwatch for any element, the tie between infantry and armor is loose at best. in actuality, both desert storm and OIF saw the use of armor leading the way. remember the 7th cav's push to bagdad? the battle of 73 easting (the largest tank battle in history) even though 3rd infantry division (or was it 1st?) was there kicking ass and leading the way (7th cav, if i remember, was atatched to them), they are mech. inf.! they drive around in bradleys! they are not the light infantry most people think of. the truth is that armor divisions and cav regiments act independent of infantry nearly all the time.

this is not just my opinion, it is fact.

Cavscout

No you don`t need to prove if you are in or or not, personnally anybody on this and any other site start infoing on there day or night job is usually full of crap.Use info that the military use and correctly spell simple words (see your reply to me) and allow people to asses whether your are true or not.

Yours Sincerely COl D.H Hackworth.

[edit on 27-6-2004 by weirdo]

[edit on 27-6-2004 by weirdo]

Reminded me of what a Digger once said about his tour in Vietnam. That they had a methodical approach to stalking Charlie through the jungle and engaging the enemy when they were at their most vunerable. Yet the yanks were so noisy they would bring the VC to them, therefore placing themselves in a defensive situation, a lot of times in Charlies favour.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
devil wasp they will panic? tow words for you suicide bomber they dont panic

[edit on 27-6-2004 by WestPoint23]

A. not every person over there is a suicide bomber most are prepared to fight with weapons like AK's and such am i right cav scout?
B. the reason most suicide bombers dont panic is because they dont care and they know they have already won.

now wait a second here. i never said that cav scout wasnt who he said he was,i said that the cav scouts dont reacon like most infantry reacon squads. please dont put words in my mouth.
i may not have combat bloody exsperience but i do know how to sneak. i have been in the cadets for a while and we got taught by member s of the military so i have gotten exsperience from learning from them.
in the military one of the first things you are taught is the diffrence between enemy and civilians ,a very difficult job in any city area.
yeah i know of that type or lot use it 2. but velcro is still isnt silent like a button.

devilwasp he brits can stand there and get shot while preserving their bullets but im going to shoot back im not going to sit there and think wow should I shoot back I might shoot a dog by mistake and I don't want to hurt anything by that time you have a whole AK clip in you






West Point
Out

Westpoint

You obviously never been in a war zone.If you release an uncontrolled and agressive return of fire you position will be exposed and you will be vunerable for to long a period especially if you don`t i.d your target correctly you could be aiming to the left when your hostile could be to your right and because you aare not suppressing his postion he will be free to target your ass.if you don`t now what you are talking about please refrain from making your comments at least until you have read a field manuel. With comments like that you`d be luck to get in the boys scouts.

[edit on 27-6-2004 by weirdo]