This story has CHANGED MY LIFE ... it may change yours as well.

Originally posted by MMPI2

Originally posted by Q:1984A:1776
reply to post by gatorboi117

 

Thanks for the post OP S&F! That story made me laugh several times, made me ponder several possibilities and reinforced many ideas I've had already.

I just have to wonder how you can still call yourself a devout Christian, believing the Bible in its entirety, and consider such things...???...

Certainly, such a beautiful ideal as proposed in that story is in blatant contradiction of MANY parts of your holy book.

Here's a couple of examples:
Isaiah 13:9,15-18 contains this message from God: "Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger. . . . Every one that is found shall be thrust through. . . . Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes . . . and their wives ravished. Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them. . . . [T]hey shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eyes will not spare children." (So this is what is supposed to happen to the enemies of God huh? I guess I had better start following God's commandments, like: )

In Numbers chapter 31, the Lord approves of these instructions that Moses gave to the Israelite soldiers about how to treat certain women and children captured in war: "Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." (So God approves of pedophilia?)

Or how about Deuteronomy 22:28: If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives. (So God forces the poor girl who was raped to see her attacker every day for the rest of her life, cook his meals, clean his home, fulfill her "wifely duties" and bear his children??? Wow! all you have to do if you want to have a house-slave is rape one and pay her dad a month's wages?)

I don't mean to bash you OP, obviously you are beginning to seek other forms of spiritual guidance and I applaud you for that. I am just hoping that you (and others like you with open minds) will eventually abandon entirely this twisted religion that has molded the minds of the masses for far too long. It truly will be impossible for this world to know peace until the violent and hateful Judeo/Christian/Islamic sects lose their strangle-hold on the hearts and minds of the people.

edit on 7-10-2010 by Q:1984A:1776 because: (no reason given)

Q, you truly make me sick. I hope I never meet anybody like you.

The feeling is mutual if you are made sick by people that are made sick by a "god" commanding the things quoted above and inspired by the free thought of the story in the OP. Go troll somewhere else.

Originally posted by Q:1984A:1776

"Do not think that I have come to bring peace upon the earth. I have come to bring not peace but the sword.
For I have come to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and one's enemies will be those of his household."

Way to take that quote out of context. I thought that was inciting violence before, but then i learned of the context, and it is not. What the quote means, in context, is that one will have to fight for what is right, no literally, but with their minds. Jesus is saying that the 'sword' he is bringing is for destroying ignorance.

p.s. I am not a christian, i have just used this quote in argument before, and had it handed to me

Originally posted by Q:1984A:1776

Originally posted by gatorboi117

Although this goes against what I wrote in the OP by not wanting to debate Chritianity, you strike me as a pleasant fellow, especially the way that you worded your reply respectfully. So, I'll bite.

What you quoted are excerpts from a part of the Bible known as the Old Testament. As a Christian, I respect the Old Testament, but don't follow it. I follow the New Testament, which is the gospel of Jesus Christ and the story of the early Christian church, when it still operated the way it was meant to. Jesus Christ, to Christians, is the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy. So, by following Him, I no longer have to follow any of the Old Testament. All that he told me to do was "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets." - Matthew 7:12.

As for how I can consider such things and still be a devout Christian? It's not that I believe them, it just makes me think of things in a different light. It reminds me to "get in someone else's shoes".

Thanks again for adding to the discussion!

Thank you as well for being civil in return when I did kinda go against your wishes about debating Christianity. If you will forgive me once more, I must respond to your "old testament defense" as is so often given by Christians when quoted the previous verses.
While Jesus was an awesome guy (whether fictional or historical) and said a lot of excellent things, there was a GREAT deal of hatred and prejudice and violence in the new testament as well. For the sake of brevity, I will only give one example, spoken by Jesus of Nazareth himself, not one of his apostles:
Matthew 10: 34-36
"Do not think that I have come to bring peace upon the earth. I have come to bring not peace but the sword.
For I have come to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and one's enemies will be those of his household."

Just as the god of the old testament contradicted his own laws of "thou shalt not kill" by commanding his servants to slaughter infants in front of their mothers, his son follows in his footsteps by contradicting the golden rule with the above statement and his promises of what most refer to as "Armageddon" and the ensuing punishment of eternal torture for anybody who simply doesn't believe in his message of "love".
While the message conveyed in your OP was one of peace, love and understanding, one has to overlook almost everything written in the bible (old and NT) to find the same.
I once again invite you to use that (obviously gifted) mind of yours and reconsider giving your support to a religion that continues to fuel misery and division throughout the world.
I only write these things because you and many people who would find this post attractive have the right frame of mind to deny ignorance and join with the rest of us trying to build a better world. Here. Now. Not in some vague afterlife.

I once heard a phrase "Never read a Bible Verse". This phrase was spoken by a Christian! What he meant was "Never read a Bible Verse ALONE. Read it in context." Brother, today I will offer you that context.
If you read the verses preceding the one you quoted, we see that Jesus is giving a lesson to his disciples about being persecuted. He is telling them that people will be turned against them, and that they will be hunted. He is warning them that the gospel is not a story that will be widely accepted. That it will divide households. Now, Jesus never told his disciples to purposely start fights within their house. He simply warned them that they WILL be outcasted from their own families because of this.
Also, in reference to hell: there is much debate as to what hell really is. It's not so much a place of torture persay, it's more of a place of complete seperation from God. None of us have truly felt that, and THAT will be the eternal torture: utter seperation from God.

Now, PLEASE, try to stay on topic here. I'd love to either continue this conversation via PM or on a different thread devoted to this. I know both of us want to have the last word, so let me make this announcement to ATS for the both of us:

NEITHER of us have "won" this debate. No one has been proven wrong. Both his views and my views are up in the air as of now. Let's this particular debate end here as a humble draw, and let it begin (if need be) else where, where it belongs.

I do not claim "victory" in this civil debate, lol.

reply to post by gatorboi117


Thank you for your post!!! I was having a very hard day, past few weeks and this story was what I needed to read. I have always felt that i'm very empathetic and conscious of others but lately I have been closed off. I am amazed that your only 17 and being emotionally effected by something like this? I was also raised as a strict Christian but have challenged myself to think outside the box. I will put this story into affect in my life and touch as many others with it as I can. Thank you very much!!! I really hope you do great thing with your life and teach others to be like what this story teaches. We are all on this place together and must love and understand. Spread the positivity brother!

reply to post by gatorboi117


Hey OP, have you ever read anything from Neville Goddard? Older author, right on the same path you are though.

Thanks for sharing

Why reincarnate only into humans? This story sucks, but it made me hungry for an omelet.

This story reminds me of a lucid dream I had last month. In the dream I knew I was dreaming(obviously) so I decided to gauge the awareness level of my dream characters who were being animated by my sub contiousness I suppose. I told them they were not real and that I was the creator of their world. They didn't seem to understand what I was saying and they had a blank look on their face. I then showed them I could levitate and fly and that seemed to convince them that at the very least that I was more than what I appeared to be. But they still coudnt grasp the concept that I was their god(so to speak) I then got bored and left them to their mundane existence and took off in search of more adventurous pursuits.

A very nice story OP S+F.....It reminded me of an experience I had during meditation. My mind was still, quiet and tranquil. suddenly I found myself bathed in a brilliant light at the source of the light I saw a person sitting in meditation, looking alot like Budha. He or She spoke to me sounded masculine, "You are the creator".
Sublime experience that changes your life....it's called enlightenment. I am Christian too.

Originally posted by krontron111
reply to post by gatorboi117

 

Thank you for your post!!! I was having a very hard day, past few weeks and this story was what I needed to read. I have always felt that i'm very empathetic and conscious of others but lately I have been closed off. I am amazed that your only 17 and being emotionally effected by something like this? I was also raised as a strict Christian but have challenged myself to think outside the box. I will put this story into affect in my life and touch as many others with it as I can. Thank you very much!!! I really hope you do great thing with your life and teach others to be like what this story teaches. We are all on this place together and must love and understand. Spread the positivity brother!

I'm glad this post uplifted you! I hope that I do great things in life as well. If I do, I'll be sure to let you know that gatorboi117 = so-and-so. Seriously though, keep spreadin' the love.

Originally posted by Road2Liberty2010
reply to post by gatorboi117

 

Hey OP, have you ever read anything from Neville Goddard? Older author, right on the same path you are though.

Thanks for sharing

edit on 7-10-2010 by Road2Liberty2010 because: another thought...

No, I have not heard of that author. Can you recommend any specific literature by him?

Originally posted by TiM3LoRd
This story reminds me of a lucid dream I had last month. In the dream I knew I was dreaming(obviously) so I decided to gauge the awareness level of my dream characters who were being animated by my sub contiousness I suppose. I told them they were not real and that I was the creator of their world. They didn't seem to understand what I was saying and they had a blank look on their face. I then showed them I could levitate and fly and that seemed to convince them that at the very least that I was more than what I appeared to be. But they still coudnt grasp the concept that I was their god(so to speak) I then got bored and left them to their mundane existence and took off in search of more adventurous pursuits.

YOU sound like a Lucid Master. I have always desired to lucid dream. I studied it like crazy about three(ish) years ago, and tried so hard to achieve lucidity while dreaming. I sort of did it once, but it was anti-climatic. What's interesting to me is that your own sub-conscience didn't take the idea of a creator that inter-acted with them seriously. Do you adhere to this line of thought as well, or was it simply your sub-conscience playing the devil's advocate.



Special shout-out to Q:1984A:1776 - YOU are what a member of ATS should model. Although you disagree with my beliefs, you respectfully acknowledged that this is not the thread for a debate. I gave you a star, and I would give you another if I could. Thank-you for being such a respectful fellow truth-seeker.

"I am you as you are he and we are all together.....come together, right now...." -Beatles.

I love oneness.

How will tptb divide and conquer us if we find out we are one?

How will they have a rich elite and people starving in poverty if we know we are one?

How will they convince some of us to kill our other-selves in war?

How will they convince minions to go along with their agenda for self gain to the detriment of humanity?

How will they turn us against each other with racism, sexism, prejudece, religion, etc. ?

How will they even have a monetary system to enslave us?

They wont, and they may not even "be" the "powers" any more.

Its time to unite.

Immensely powerful story.

I'll definitely try to put myself more in other's shoes just to see if I can somehow acquire some type of a connection with them.

Originally posted by gatorboi117

Hmm, I've never heard of the "Slot Experiment" or "Weather Experiment". Could you elaborate on those are provide links? They sound quite fascinating.

I misquoted the name, it was the 2 slit experiment - en.wikipedia.org... - which shows that light and/or electrons can manifest as particles or waveforms. It was also claimed that the experiment would change depending of whether or not it was being observed by humans.

Emoto did experiments using water to see if human thought and emotion could change the molecular properties of water. His results were intriguing to say the least. The title of his book is Messages from Water.

reply to post by Asktheanimals


Thank-you for the links! I will look into this and pass it on to some colleagues of mine!

My empathy has grown exponentially after I've learned and practiced humanistic Buddhism. This is a great story and makes so much sense at the same time it doesn't.

reply to post by gatorboi117


The hard part is to keep going. Espeacially, when it's you going through the tough time. Try keeping this feeling for the rest of your life and you'll find you've grown into a courteous person with connects everywhere because you helped people everywhere you went. By the way, it's called spirituality and welcoome it's good to hear people coming around everyday.

reply to post by gatorboi117


I wouldn't say I'm a lucid master but I have been lucid dreaming since I was about 6 or 7 maybe even younger but I can't remember that far back. I think the more you become lucid the easier it becomes there are lots of techniques you can use to get lucid. The one I use is set my alarm to go off 5 hours or so after I fall asleep. Roughly. And then wake up for 20 mins walk around empty bladder do what you need to. Then go back to sleep and try to remain contious if the fact that your about to have a dream and that it's not real. Then when you get there and that's the only way to describe it from my point of view. Check the lights. Lights don't work in dreams. Once you get confirmation of your lucidity let your imagination run wild. It's very liberating.

As for my dream characters not believing I was their creator. I guess it stems from my low self worth not believing I'm worthy for god to pick me worthy enough to interact with me. So I projected that onto the family I visited. Even after I showed them I could fly they weren't 100% convinced. Which I guess is a lesson for me that I need to be less cynical about things.

reply to post by gatorboi117


Welcome to the club buddy, Glad to have you aboard, My heart and soul goes to you. Take very good care, you will make it to that finish line one day, Patience is the key. Love and peace to you

reply to post by gatorboi117


Absolutely, I try to have the point of view that everyone I meet is me with a different perspective on the universe, and I try to help every individual as much as I can. There are of cause limits to what i can accomplish within my current incarnation but I really do feel obliged to help the world progress and do my bit to help advance our common existence. I feel that when I leave this world behind and with the chance of returning at a later stage I would like to turn back to a better world and by that intention I strive to ensure that what I leave behind will enable the world to be a better place within my means.

Originally posted by Q:1984A:1776

Originally posted by MMPI2

Originally posted by Q:1984A:1776
reply to post by gatorboi117

 

Thanks for the post OP S&F! That story made me laugh several times, made me ponder several possibilities and reinforced many ideas I've had already.

I just have to wonder how you can still call yourself a devout Christian, believing the Bible in its entirety, and consider such things...???...

Certainly, such a beautiful ideal as proposed in that story is in blatant contradiction of MANY parts of your holy book.

Here's a couple of examples:
Isaiah 13:9,15-18 contains this message from God: "Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger. . . . Every one that is found shall be thrust through. . . . Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes . . . and their wives ravished. Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them. . . . [T]hey shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eyes will not spare children." (So this is what is supposed to happen to the enemies of God huh? I guess I had better start following God's commandments, like: )

In Numbers chapter 31, the Lord approves of these instructions that Moses gave to the Israelite soldiers about how to treat certain women and children captured in war: "Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." (So God approves of pedophilia?)

Or how about Deuteronomy 22:28: If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives. (So God forces the poor girl who was raped to see her attacker every day for the rest of her life, cook his meals, clean his home, fulfill her "wifely duties" and bear his children??? Wow! all you have to do if you want to have a house-slave is rape one and pay her dad a month's wages?)

I don't mean to bash you OP, obviously you are beginning to seek other forms of spiritual guidance and I applaud you for that. I am just hoping that you (and others like you with open minds) will eventually abandon entirely this twisted religion that has molded the minds of the masses for far too long. It truly will be impossible for this world to know peace until the violent and hateful Judeo/Christian/Islamic sects lose their strangle-hold on the hearts and minds of the people.

edit on 7-10-2010 by Q:1984A:1776 because: (no reason given)

Q, you truly make me sick. I hope I never meet anybody like you.

The feeling is mutual if you are made sick by people that are made sick by a "god" commanding the things quoted above and inspired by the free thought of the story in the OP. Go troll somewhere else.

----------------------------------------------------------
Nah, man. I'm made sick by johnny-come-lately wanna-be intellectuals like you. You are clearly the troll. Go peddle your close-minded, freshman progressive tripe somewhere else. I really feel sorry for you and anybody of your ilk.