Revelation; "A time, times, and half a time"

I want to offer some thoughts on the Revelation timescale.
Revelation presents itself as a kind of history, but the events aren't always in sequence.
Different time-periods are mentioned in different places.
As a life-long student of history, I don't feel comfortable until the chronology has been sorted out.

So I'm going to be asking the question; what are the "times" of Revelation?

I'm going to begin, like everybody else, with the "seventy weeks of years" of Daniel ch9, culminating in "the prince who is to come". Daniel says that the prince will be dominant for "one week", or seven years.
In the middle of the period he sets up "the Abomination that makes desolate".
We know it's the middle, because he then "causes the sacrifice to cease" for the remaining half-week- Daniel ch9 v27.

So the "week" is divided half-way.
The second half is occupied by the prince's war against God's worship, so the implication is that the first half of the week is comparaively peaceful.

There's another significant time-reference in the last chapter of Daniel. An angel announces that "the end of these wonders" will come after the passage of "a time, two times, and half a time". This adds up to "three and a half times", so that it can be equated with"half a week". At the end of this period the "shattering of the power of the holy people" will come to an end, so it obviously relates to the second half-week, when theyre under the prince's power.

When we come to Revelation, we find that most of the time-periods mentioned are different versions of that same "half-week".
Thus the Beast is "allowed to exercise authority" for a period of forty-two months, or three and a half years- ch13 v5.
The nations are " trampling over the holy city" for the same period- ch11 v2.
The two witnesses in the next verse are giving their testimony for a period of one thousand, two hundred and sixty days- which is forty-two months, taken at thirty days per month.
Their dead bodies are left in the open for three and a half days. I make that half a week.
Finally, the "woman" who represents God's people will be "nourished in the wilderness" for a period which is described both as "one thousand, two hundred and sixty days" (ch12 v6) and also as "a time, two times, and half a time" (ch12 v14).

The natural assumption is that these are all different ways of describing the same period, which means that all these events can be correlated.
This period when the Beast "makes war on the saints" is the Revelation equivalent of that period when Daniel's "prince" stops the worship of God.

There's another set of time-references which needs to be brought into the picture.
The ten kings are in power "together with the Beast" for a period of "one hour"- ch17 v12.
And there is a period of "silence in heaven" at the beginning of ch8 which lasts for "half an hour".
We only have to bring these two statements together to realise that they must be related.
The implication is that the "silence in heaven" occupies half the extent of the "one hour".
The first half, presumably, since the second half will be occupied by the trumpets and the vials and all the other expressions of God's wrath against the Beast.
The expression of God's wrath is a very noisy business ("thunder and voices and flashes of lightning and an earthquake")
So I came to the conclusion, when I was discussing the "silence in heaven", that the phrase indicates a period when God is not expressing his wrath upon the earth.

So the "hour" is divided half-way.
The second half is occupied by God's war against the Beast, while the first half of the hour is comparatively peaceful.

We've now been given two descriptions of the reign of the hostile ruler.
On the one hand, the prince rules for "one week", divided into a peaceful first half and a war-troubled second half.
On the other hand, the Beast rules for "one hour", divided into a peaceful first half and a war-troubled second half.
The obvious conclusion is that the "one week" and the "one hour" are two different labels for the same thing.
Then the peaceful portion of the "week" can be correlated with the peaceful portion of the "hour".
And the war-troubled portion of the "week" can be correlated with the war-troubled portion of the "hour".

On that basis, the timeline of Revelation begins to fall into place.

The prelude

The first six chapters of Revelation cover the period immediately before the "hour" starts.

The first event in this period of history is a persecution of God's people.
It's part of the background of ch1 ("who share with you in Jesus the tribulation and the kingdom and the patient endurance").
And the martyred victims of this persecution are the souls who are seen "under the altar" when the fifth seal is opened.
I interpreted the events of ch6 as God's response to this persecution.
Then, at the beginning of ch7, God restrains his agents of judgement, "the four winds of the earth".
In other words, God calls a truce.
The martyrs of the first persecution must be joined (as they've already been told) by the martyrs of a further persecution, and preparations must be made on both sides.

For reference;
The 4 Horsemen- Why?
The 4 Horsemen-How?
Souls under the altar

First half-week- "The truce"

What the Beast does during the truce

This will be the time when the Beast is establishing its power.
The beginning of this time coincides with the end of the "Four Horsemen" episode. In fact I've suggested that the Beast becomes dominant on the strength of being able to lead the world out of that catastrophe.
I've also speculated that the same catastrophe might be the "mortal wound",from which the first Beast of ch13, the political state, makes a dramatic recovery.

We're told in Daniel that the prince "shall make a strong covenant with many" for the whole period of one week.
We're told in Revelation ch17 that the ten kings "give over their power and authority to the Beast", so that they rule together for the one hour.
Once again, bringing the two statements together makes it evident that these are two different ways of describing the same thing.
This is about the arrangements between the Beast and subordinate authorities which give it the ability to dominate the world, either directly or indirectly.
"And authority was given it over every tribe and people and tongue and nation".

For reference;
The Beast from the sea- a world-state.

What God does during the truce

God's purpose in calling the truce (as announced in ch7) is to make time for the "sealing" of his servants.
The whole of the period is available for this operation.
Apart from that, it is the period of the "silence in heaven", as already mentioned, the period when God is not expressing his full wrath upon the earth.

For reference;
144,000
Silence in heaven

Halfway point-"The transition"

What the Beast does at the transition

In Daniel, the beginning of the prince's "war with God" is clearly marked.
"They shall set up the Abomination which makes desolate", and the second half-week is the period when "he shall cause sacrifice and offering to cease".
In Revelation, the Beast's "war" on God and the saints is assigned to the half-week, as in Daniel, but no event is named as the starting-point.
I've suggested that the Beast who was claiming to be the returned Christ would set up his own version of the Abomination by compelling the organised churches to recognise his claim.

For reference;
Great leader and antichrist
The Beast and the Temple

What God does at the transition

But the reaction from the other side is very clearly marked, in the first few verses of ch8.
An angel comes forward with incense which represents the renewed "prayers of the saints", which are presumably an appeal against what the Beast is now doing.
God's response to these prayers is the very noisy demonstration of wrath that I've already mentioned, showing his determination to deal with the Beast.
So that is the end of the "Silence".

Second half week- "the war"

What the Beast does during the war

This period is defined by the Beast's active hostility towards God and his people.
This is the period when the Beast is dominating the world, and "trampling over the holy city".
God's people are reduced to a kind of underground existence, "nourished in the wilderness".
While the "two witnesses", another aspect of God's people, will be giving their testimony and getting themselves killed.

For reference;
War on the saints
The two witnesses
The sins of the church?

What God does during the war
This is the period of the "seven trumpets" and "seven vials", which culminate in the final destruction of the Beast.

So that's my understanding of Daniel's "week" and "half-week" as filled out in the text of Revelation.

I want to consider, finally, the meaning of these two labels.

In the first place, there's the symbolic meaning of the number seven.
"Seven" is the number which belongs to God.
So a period of "seven years" is a time which has been allocated by God.
The prince can only reign as long as God allows him to reign.

Perhaps the symbolism of "half of seven" is that the ruler takes part of the time which God has given and directs it against him.So it is used particularly about that half of the week, when he shows his hostility, rather than the more "peaceful" half.

The application of this "three and a half years" label to different events in Revelation is a way of showing the relationship between them. It ties them together, and it ties them all together with the "half-week" of Daniel's prince. It makes it clear that they all belong to the same time-period, the same set of circumstances.

But the symbolic meaning of these numbers makes me reluctant to find a literal meaning in them as well. In other words. I question whether it was really part of God's intention that people should use them as a basis for making date-calculations and marking days off on a calendar.

Revelation announces itself to be "a call for the endurance and faith of the saints"- ch13 v10
How much endurance and faith would they need, if they were able to work out in advance exactly when their troubles would be coming to an end?
I'm not convinced that the figures were provided for that purpose.

That's a lot of information... But my first question would be in regards to the quality of the translation. The part you mentioned about "a time, two times and half a time," just reeks of shoddy translation. So, I'd first go back to the purest form of the text, the text most closely tied to the original at least. I'd bet you'd get a different sense of the words with each successive derivation.
Aside from that, I have no answers for you. My 12 years of Catholic school education have failed me in this thread. Curse you, Sister Ellen!!

reply to post by 35Foxtrot

Thank you for that comment.
I've just checked other translations on that phrase.
RSV, Jerusalem Bible, NIV- they all say the same.
I think the phrase sounds odd precisely because the translators are being carefully literal.
The idea that it adds up to "three and a half times" and equates with the "half week of years" from a couple of chapters earlier is probably the standard interpretation. On that particular point, I'm going with the crowd.

reply to post by DISRAELI
Disraeli,

I would have to write a book to explain all the points of prophecy you have brought up. The 70 wks. Da 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

This is the time alloted for the Jews to finish their transgression, "Sevinty weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city", means a stern warning to them but wasn't heeded. Then verse 25 7 wks. + 3 score and 2 then = 69 wks. Then verse 26 tells us after those wks Messiah is cut off! Yes, Yes He was because He was rejected as the Prince, the Son of God, the true Messiah. Not all but too many couldn't see the promised Messiah must come as a man and yet be fully God in a body prepared for Him. Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: Then the seventieth wk. He began His Ministry to them, AD 27, died AD 30 and ended it to them AD 34, the last 7 yrs for them and then it would go to the gentiles. Yes they had finished the transgression prophecied. Yes the fact that they crucified Him proves the matter. This was a long time prophecy that began 457 and the SDA's had this figured out but they didn't and mybe still don't realize the reason for the wks. being wks of yrs. is because the Jubilee calendar a day is a year.. The Jubilee calendar being a calendar set up by God the same as the day, wk., yr. calendar. Enoch had stated the weekly Sabbath was observed in Heaven before earth and carried into earth and in sync with Heaven and it appears the same for the Jubilee calendar. Enoch had laid out the calendar the same as our Gregorian, the only difference being where the yr. started and where the shortest month fell. He had 12 divisions and 365-1/4 days for a yr.

The time, times and dividing of times was the prophecy that reached to the end of the dark ages. 1260 yrs. and 1798 was the yr. when the deadly wound was inflicted. A time is 360, times is, 720, half a time is 180 = 1260.
Da 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. That persecuting power did change the Sabbath for Sunday if you except it. It did not however change the Royal Law, it stands forever never to be changed. Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Since I'm not interrested in prophecy long ago fulfilled I care not to get into that further.

I would discuss the other prophecies with you or anyone and Rev. I dearly love because it is so easy and clear but not easy to get others with imbeded views to see what they should. Rev. and Dan. go together and one clarifies the other to a great extent.

I will leave at that for now.

The Holy Spirit not only convicts of sin but convicts of the truth when you have arrived.

Truthiron

reply to post by truthiron

Thank you for those comments.
It isn't easy to respond directly, because we're really focussing on different aspects of prophecy.
You're focussing more on Daniel and the past.
I'm focussing on Revelation and what it may be saying about a time of persecution in the future.
It is certainly describing things which the world has not yet experienced.
If you want to make any specific comments on my interpretation of Revelation itself, I will be interested to hear them.

If Yeshua would not give an exact date for the 70th week and that is control of the Father, all we can do is speculate. If the Son does not know the hour or all the angels then what we have is a best guess..

However... We DO know that the "weeks of years" are disernable via Gods own Word. What we do not know is the "hour".. THAT God keeps to Himself however Yeshua reveal "the season"...

And that is via a fig tree;

Matthew 24 v32"Now learn a parable of the fig tree Now learn a parable of the fig tree When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: 33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors."



The fig harvest is during the month of Elul which is where we Jews make our best prayers to God for redemption and for our national sins before the new year and the day of attonement.,

Sounds like the perfect season of repentance no?

Yeshua knows "the season" but not the hour.. Yet ALL the feasts correspond with Yeshua and Him being the pascal?lamb and MoshiachEl... Maybe you Christians better start taking more notice of the feasts that was ordained forever, and are prophetic, rather than Nicolation bs, easter and xmas

reply to post by Yissachar1

Thank you for those comments.
I'm not sure that the fig-tree point directly relates to the time when the Beast of Revelation would be persecuting the Christian church, which was the main theme of the thread.
I think we agree that we cannot know the exact year when God will come in judgement, and can only make sure of our own readiness.

reply to post by DISRAELI


I disagree with date calculations too but I believe we are to know the seasons and the times and I believe the sevens help us with that.

1 Chronicles 12:32
And of the children of Issachar, which were men that had understanding of the times, to know what Israel ought to do; the heads of them were two hundred; and all their brethren were at their commandment

The sevens help us know what church age we are in, what trumpet is about to blow. Who is a liar and deceiver.
To understand our future, we must study our past.

Matthew 16:3
And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowering. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?

Matthew 24:43
But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up

Mark 13:37
And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.


Oh yeah, I wanted to tell you that I liked your explanation of the 'hour' and the 'week'. I never noticed that one.

hey i haven't read your whole op yet just some of it...i just wanted to post this just because... hopefully you know about this and hopefully it will be useful in this thread....

you know the whole bible is written in what is to understood as a week...not mankinds week but our creators week. 7 days....and of course a thousand years is like a day to our creator.....according to the bible man as we know it was created 6000 almost 7000 years ago...that would put us now in the 6th getting close to the 7th day. this is why when you hear someone say we are in the last days...they really mean it and hopefully they understand why they are saying that. take the timeline of our creator and the chapters of mans history and they line up. put the days of history into a week....every 1000 years = 1 day all the way back and see what you come up with....everything is in order with our creator.

found this to be good to have...

1000yrs -------- 1day
500yrs---------- 12 hrs
250yrs-- ------- 6hrs
125yrs---------- 3hrs
62yrs & 6 mos ---------- 1hr & 30mins
31yrs & 3mos ----------- 45mins
15yrs & 7mos & 15days ---------------- 22mins & 30secs
7yrs & 9mos 22days 12hrs------------- 11mins & 15 secs
3yrs ,10mos 26days 3hrs--------------- 5mins 37secs 30mili
1yr 11mos 13days 1hr 30secs-------- 2mins 48secs 45mili
11mos 21days 12hrs 30min 15secs------------------------------ 1min 24sec 22.5mili
5mos 25days 18hrs 15min 7sec 30mili ------------------------ 42secs 11.25mili
2mos 27days 21hrs 7min 33secs 30mili------------------------- 21secs 5.625mili
1mon 13days 22hrs 33min 46secs 45mili------------------------ 10secs 32.81mili
21days 13hrs 16min 53sec 22.5mili------------------------------- 5secs 16.40mili
10days 18hrs 38min 26sec 16.25mili ------------------------------ 2secs 38.20mili
5days 9hrs 19min 13secs --------------------------------------------- 1sec 19.1mili


first 1000 years after creation = the 1st day
2000 years = 2nd day
3000 after creation = 3rd day
-------------------------------------------
4000 after creation = 4th day middle of the week Christ is born
------------------------------------------
5000 after creation = 5th day
6000 after creation = 6th day
(where we are)
7000 years after creation 7th day



the only video i could find that explains this timeline..really good imo.


(The Lord’s Day): what is the “day of the Lord” as defined in Scripture? Many believe that the “day of the Lord” refers only to the “Tribulation”, Armageddon, and the 2nd Advent, but it is more than that.

In this segment, the Lord’s Day is defined by scripture and shown to be a time in which many prophetic events will occur such as the “time of Jacob’s trouble”, the time of “great tribulation”, Armageddon, the 2nd Coming, as well as the 1000 year Millennial Kingdom of Christ on earth. Find out how God defines the “day of the Lord” as shown in the Creation account as well as the 7 year pattern found in the Sabbatical cycles and Sabbath year of “rest” to the nation of Israel.

Google Video Link

godstimeline.net...

Originally posted by DISRAELI
reply to post by Yissachar1

 

Thank you for those comments.
I'm not sure that the fig-tree point directly relates to the time when the Beast of Revelation would be persecuting the Christian church, which was the main theme of the thread.
I think we agree that we cannot know the exact year when God will come in judgement, and can only make sure of our own readiness.

Not to the direct time but the "season"..

I know that christians think the fig.tree represents israel but jews know when the figs come then we must mourn..

That is no coincidence

reply to post by Funkydung

Thank you for those comments. I will bear them in mind.
My main concern was with the structure of the period when the Beast would be persecuting the Church.

Originally posted by Yissachar1
Not to the direct time but the "season"..

If we don't know the exact year, then knowing the season doesn't help all that much.
Except, as I said, we can make sure we're ready anyway.

Originally posted by iamnot
Oh yeah, I wanted to tell you that I liked your explanation of the 'hour' and the 'week'. I never noticed that one.

Thank you for that. As far as I know, I'm the originator of that particular theory. I've been putting it forward since my first thread in the series. Not everybody approves of it.
I suppose the best kind of preparation is general watchfulness, making sure that we know what opposition to God would look like, so that it can be recognised.

Originally posted by DISRAELI

Originally posted by Yissachar1
Not to the direct time but the "season"..

If we don't know the exact year, then knowing the season doesn't help all that much.
Except, as I said, we can make sure we're ready anyway.

Correct...

Elul then the feast of trumpets.. The "last trumpet"..


Before that passover..

Look at the feasts..

They are prophecy and physical reenactments on the ground of Gods redemption of mankind written into the very culture of a chosen people...

Humour me with a study

I know with your abilities as shown on this site over and again that you will get it and put it in a way better than me

Originally posted by Funkydung
-------------------------------------------
4000 after creation = 4th day middle of the week Christ is born
------------------------------------------

If this is really in the middle of the week, it ought to be in the middle of the fourth day.
I.e. after three and a half days.
So 3500 comes after that?

Originally posted by Yissachar1
Humour me with a study
I know with your abilities as shown on this site over and again that you will get it and put it in a way better than me

Your comments are very flattering.
The thing is, my viewpoint being a Christian one, that's the one I'm good at expressing.
In any case. there's a Revelation project that needs to be sorted out first.

I really liked this persons view concerning the feasts, it's worth a look endtimepilgrim.org...
Also remember concerning the days, the evening comes before the morning.
The darkness before the Light.

Chapter 13

(The 70th Week of Daniel and the Days of Daniel): the 70th “week” (the final 7 years given to the nation of Israel before the 2nd Advent-Daniel 9:27) is shown to be nothing more than the passage of time according to the agricultural Sabbatical cycle.

See how Daniel’s 70th Week ends just prior to a Sabbatical year of “rest”, for Christ returns at the end of a Sabbatical cycle (in a Sabbatical year) to give His “rest” to the nation of Israel! Also discussed in this video segment are the 1260 day reign of the antichrist, the 1290 day period given between the “abomination that maketh desolate” and the 2nd Advent, as well as the 1335 days from the resurrection/rapture until the 2nd Advent of Jesus Christ

www.godstimeline.net...

Google Video Link

the whole study session videos of this can be found here

www.godstimeline.net...

* Chapter 1 - Introduction
* Chapter 2 - Personal Testimony
* Chapter 3 - Doct. of Imminence?
* Chapter 4 - Parab. of Fig Tree
* Chapter 5 - The "Lords Day"
* Chapter 6 - Jacob's Trouble Part 1
* Chapter 6 - Jacob's Trouble Part 2
* Chapter 7 - Year of Mikvah 5761
* Chapter 8 - Joseph's Plenty & Famine Years
* Chapter 9 - "Signs and Times"
* Chapter 10 - Seal of Jerusalem
* Chapter 11 - The 2 Comings of Christ
* Chapter 12 - Temple of God... Where is it?
* Chapter 13 - 70th Week & days - Rapture
* Chapter 14 - Trib. 10 Days - Rapture
* Chapter 15 - Why Christ can't Come..
* Chapter 16 - Last Day; Who is Restraining?
* Chapter 17 - Conclusion - Sings and Times Part 1
* Chapter 18 - Conclusion - Sings and Times Part 2
* Chapter 19 - Conclusion - "Time(s) of the Signs"
* Chapter 20 - Sets & Subsets of Scripture
* Chapter 21 - Antichrist etc?
* Chapter 22 - Why me?

reply to post by DISRAELI
Disraeli,

Don't think for a minute that the prophecy of Dan. 8 is not an end time prophecy and so is verse 27 on of Dan. 11 and Dan. 12 is all very end time.

Now with Rev. both chap. 13 and chap. 11 take you right to the end to when Yahshua comes as King of Kings for His Bride.

I will give a quick overview of chap.13 first, the first 10 verses is about the beast that rises up out of the sea (that is of peoples) is the NWO. In the old world order the kingly power was with the heads ( religious systems and all can be lumped into the 7 heads) but now the kingly power is with the horns. You will notice the crowns are on the horms verse 1 whereas in chap. 12:3 and you can see it is the great red dragon ruling this world first through the religious systems and ended that rule and the old world order when the deadly wound was inflicted to the sixth head and ended the dark ages. Re 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, ( the sixth ) and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, ( the seventh ) he must continue a short space. I added the sixth, the seventh, for to clarify.

OK, the five fallen are the five at the time of John that were proven false and invalid when the one that is which was the one put back on track by Jesus, Yahshua and proved to be the true because It had a valid Redeemer and then the one not yet come is our protestantism of today that has only been valid for aprox. 500 yrs. (a short space) and now has fallen into apostasy and is not longer protestant of any falsehoods as all are entertained by one or another. Just like the "one is", was the true but went back into apostasy and evolved into the Papacy.

The NWO began when the religious heads no longer had any kingly power (no crowns) but now on the horns and this began the time the great red dragon began to rule through the 10 most powerful men ( dynasties, poweer is passed dn. to picked ones of the family ) of this world, 1798 and some say this country was the beginning of the NWO, 1796 does come close. These 10 meet once a month in a penthouse in Canada once a month to decide the destiny of this country and the whole world.

Now verse 11 on are about the one cast into the earth and is now allowed to come out of the earth. We go again to Rev. explanation chap. - Re 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

How true, many today deny that Satan is for real. He is the first son of perdition and later Judas was called that after his father the devil. He is the one that gives power to the first beast of the chapter verses 1 to 11. He does miracles to prove he is God, Jesus, will be the name he takes to decieve the whole so called Christian world and Jews that did not recieve the True Messiah that came in the middle of the seventieth wk. of Dan. 9 The number 666 is his number and he is called a man by God. Read - Eze 28:9 Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee. The 666 is Satan he is that man! Satan is THE 666 and he is THE anti-christ and of men they are AN after their father the devil. Read - 1Jo 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. The same today there are many. Just one more thing I want to interject and that is that the first beast of the chap. 13 is the image beast of the great red dragon in that it too has 7 heads and 10 horns and men make and are coerced to make an image by being team players and can you not see that among men and women of today. I'm going to leave this now as I feel that with the explanation given the verses 11 thru 18 are self explanitory.

Back to Re 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

Now with the 10 horns in power and the next verse gets to the crux of the prophecy.
Re 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

That is to continue to make war as revealed in the verses following. The Notice is "power was given unto him to continue forty and two months".

That does it right there, 42 months period. That is it, no more power is given as God who is in charge only will let this thing go on so long, He ultimatley gives Satan and evil men power to continue for so long. What men do not understand is that God must let sin and lawlesness show just how far and awful it can come to and then it is done and since all Heaven and Redeemed men have seen it and know also it will not rise up again. Yahweh knew in the beginning that sin and lawlesness would have to rise up from one of His created ones as He created all to be free moral agents and that it must be shown to all then so all beings then would still be free and not want to rebell in no way shape or form. Isa has a wonderful verse -
Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
He and the Redeemer are from everlasting and both speak as one and declare one. The Redeemer was creator of all things also. - Read -
Isa 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any. Also - Read -
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

I may lay out Rev. 11: at a later time.

Prophecy proves Yahweh and our Redeemer is no imposter or hoax. They are the Truth the way and the Life.

Truthiron

reply to post by truthiron

Thank you for your comments, and your promises to provide more details.
I don't know if you realise that this thread is part of a long-running series in which I've already been presenting my own outlook on many of the passages you're describing.
Eg my views on ch11 v1 are outlined in "The Beast and the Temple" and "the two witnesses", both linked in the OP.
It is late and I need to get to bed, but I'll compare the two sets of views more closely in the morning.