Was North America mapped in 1154

reply to post by Dr UAE


The map is shared on Wikipedia Commons, and is royalty free. Link below:

Fixed link to map on Wikipedia Commons

Like I said, I find it strange that a world map showing Eurasia upside down, is sltrikingly similar to North America. That said, thanks to Dr UAE, looking forward to reading your translations!!!




BTW: As for Gog of/and Magog being drawn into this map, Josephus who wrote the Antiquities of the Jews also placed Gog and Magog on the map. Se the post below for map. Magog was one of the seven sons of Japheth, the third son of Mosjeh. Gog, the way HE is discribed in the Bible, suggests he is an endtime king of the nation of Magog

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by skjalddis


The N is flipped because our "south" today is "magnetic north," the direction that a magnet points to naturally.

The S back then is today's North so that low IQ people can understand.

reply to post by die_another_day


Infact an electro-magnetic south pole is infact the negative pole, which attracts magnetic north of a magnet, hence South=North is actually more correct than having North "upwards" (as if there would be up and down on a globular planet, out and in, but up and down?). Anyone care to elaborate?

reply to post by Quadrivium


It's not taken seriously because there is a "set" history we're supposed to know. Anything that ever contradicts popular belief, no matter how much evidence there is to support it, is considered wrong and ignorant. A native american friend of mine described the term "history" as exactly that. . . "His story", meaning white man's version, mostly full of lies and rewritten to meet "their" agenda. Nice avatar, by the way.

reply to post by Divine Strake


Indeed. Napoleon Bonaparte is supposed to have said while on St. Helena, that, "History is the sum of lies we have agreed upon" or something along those lines. It's striking that one of the greatest imperialists (or worst despots if you like) would say that. I guess his abdominal tumor together with all the extra time he had to endure during his last days in prison made him quite soft. And perhaps reasonable....

Originally posted by skjalddis
reply to post by Phage

 

The Chinese map is a fake?
Thanks for that, saves me wasting time with it then.

J

It's not a fake, but a 17 or 18th century copy of an earlier map. Noone has ever tried to keep that a secret.

Just thought you should all know.... It's even written on the map itself. And the dating confirms the given age written on the map.

reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic

The dating provides the age of the paper. The ink was not dated.

Originally posted by die_another_day
reply to post by skjalddis

 

The N is flipped because our "south" today is "magnetic north," the direction that a magnet points to naturally.

The S back then is today's North so that low IQ people can understand.

edit on 10/3/2010 by die_another_day because: (no reason given)

Low IQ people? Don't you mean those who haven't yet learned the appropriate information? Low IQ.... it suggests a low IQ to be so condescending, but then you might not have phrased your words as you intended, so you have the benefit of the doubt - for now.

BACK ON TOPIC:

What an amazing collection of maps. I'm fascinated at the locations of Gog and Magog on the first map, and the Chinese map has me very interested in learning more about how these maps might have been drawn, and just how it is that these people were able to produce such accurate details when we supposedly didn't have the "technology".

Originally posted by Moonsouljah
While Phage's links and others observations are enough to close debate, I would simply point out on the first map that شرق" translates to East and غرب translates to West They are upside down.

This particular link should reopen debate then.:





The Venetians obtained Chinese maps of the world from Marco Polo, which showed that the Americas existed, and these were later taken to Portugal long before Columbus arrived there. These maps were kept sceret for commercial reasons, but there were Europeans before Columbus who were aware on the Americas.

Columbus probably also heard stories about lands to the west from his travels to Britain and Iceland, since Bristol merchants and fisherman knew about them already and the Vikings had also made maps of them. We now know that the Vikings also navigated the Great Lakes and the Mississippi river, but they would literally go anywhere there was water. They really got around.

This explains why Isabella made Columbus governor of any "new lands" he might discover with 10% of the profits. He argued constantly that he never really got his fair share of these, but that's another story.

To be sure, there was always a great deal of obfuscation and secrecy surrounding these "new lands" over the years, but that was only to be expected given commerical and imperial competition between the various powers at the time. My view has always been that Columbus always had a good idea that where he was going, since he knew others had already done it long before--both Asians and Europeans.

What he can take credit for is opening the door to European colonization of the Americas on a large scale for the first time, but not for discovering what was already known.

The interesting part of all this is the inclusion of New Zealand on the Chinese map - if it was copied accurately from the original and not added in later. There haveeen reports of the Chinese discovering NZ in the distant past, and there have been greenstone (jade) arrow heads found on the South Island. Point of note, Maori never used bow and arrow so the arrowheads aren't theirs.

ok , here is the translated map , but im not sure if its going to fit the page so please , i need some help here.

now this map is of asia europe and africa , thats when you flip it , i have flipped it and its going to be easy for everyone to see it in the right way.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/943f6fbebb96.jpg[/atsimg]

i have only translated the most important names.

can someone please tell me how to add the scroll bar

Historians have often asked the question why the Chinese didn't colonize Africa and the Americas, since had known about them for centuries and had the means to do it if they chose. That's the same type of question as why there was no industrial, scientific and commerical revolution in China, since there was certainly no lack of skill, scholarship and technical innovation. For whatever reason, it simply didn't happen, although Chinese knowledge of everything from maps to compasses to gunpowder was transmitted to Europe and the Middle East, and all of it proved very useful to the rising colonial powers of the West. China just seemed to turn inward, however, and retreated from overseas trade and colonization or internal "modernization".


For over 100 years after 1492, the Spanish pretty much had the Western Hemisphere to themslves, for Britain, France and Holland didn't start any serious colonization efforts until the 17th Century. Merchants, fishermen and explorers kept plying the coasts as they had before 1492, but colonization was not a great priority for these powers. Part of the reason is that they were preoccupied with internal problems, the Reformation and wars of religion, etc.

Most historians think that Britain never took much interest in its North American colonies before the 1760s, by which time they had already existed for 100 years or more. Indeed, the colonists were quite happy that the Mother Country was not all that attentive to what was going on, unless they happened to be in a war with France and Spain.

There were rebelleions in America long before 1776, and from time to time some corrupt governor would be sent packing, but even that didn't seem to arouse much interest in Britain. Think of Sir William Berkeley, long time governor of Virginia who was overthrown in 1676 but still tried to "govern" the colony from a ship out in the harbor. Not even that produced much of a reaction, except some comments that from Charles II that Berkeley was basically corrupt and unpopular and they were probably better off without him.

So this just goes to show that even though the Americas were known for quite some time in Europe, even before Columbus, for most great powers of the time they were just not the first priority.

Originally posted by 3finjo
The interesting part of all this is the inclusion of New Zealand on the Chinese map - if it was copied accurately from the original and not added in later. There haveeen reports of the Chinese discovering NZ in the distant past, and there have been greenstone (jade) arrow heads found on the South Island. Point of note, Maori never used bow and arrow so the arrowheads aren't theirs.

Unfortunately, the first question that must be answered is whether there was an 'original' atall if it is true, as Phage has said, that this reported source has never been found. The 'copy' was made in 1763. For myself, I'm not sure that there would be much value in looking any further into this one if its provenance really is so questionable.

I don't doubt the possibility that the Chinese may have had contact to a greater or lesser extent with the west coast of America, and that other Europeans before Columbus ventured to that continent. We know that the Vikings went there and it is highly likely that other North Europeans found their way across the Atlantic at various points in history, particularly during the Medieval warm period.

The big question for me is over whether or not there once existed some truly ancient source from which some of these maps drew some of their data, be that Greek, Egyptian, Indian, Chinese, or indeed, deriving from Atlantis.

Still, thanks to the OP for bringing this up, I always find the topic interesting.

Peace
J

Originally posted by die_another_day
reply to post by skjalddis

 

The N is flipped because our "south" today is "magnetic north," the direction that a magnet points to naturally.

The S back then is today's North so that low IQ people can understand.

edit on 10/3/2010 by die_another_day because: (no reason given)

I don't believe that is correct, the North and South somehow 'changed' positions like that--at least not in recorded history. Even at the time of Columbus, the compasses still pointed North, although he was aware of variations and preferred to rely on the stars for navigation. Today, we know that there is a difference between magnetic North and True North, as was officially discovered in 1831.

Magnetic North does move around, but I see no evidence for the kind of shift that you described.

Here are some interesting articles concerning evidence for pre-Columbian contacts with the Americas from Asia, Africa and Europe--possibly a very long time before Columbus.

reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic


As the other poster wrote, the Arabic map is indeed about the northern African continent, upside down.

But the Chinese having explored America in the 14th-15th is really not surprising, given they had a huge fleet at the time, perhaps the most impressive in History, and made many exploration trips both to the East and the West. It's official history that they settled in eastern Africa back then, so why not America?

We even know how the Chinese and Japanese crossed the Pacific. Not by going straight arcoss, island hopping to the Americas like the Polynesians did, but by taking the Northern route around the Aleutians and then down the coast of what is today Caifornia, Mexico and Peru. That could have been done even with relatively primitive boats that existed thousands of years ago.

And then there is this "Vinland Map" that after many years of tests has been dated to around 1440, and shows Iceland, Greenland and the east coast of North America as explored by the Vikings and others. This one was probably made in Basel, Switzerland for a council of the Catholic Church.

So Europeans were well aware of lands to the West before Columbus, even if they did not know exactly what shape these continents were. Columbus knew their were islands there and a mainland as well before he ever sailed in 1492, although like many other explorers for centuries afterwards his geopgraphy was confused and he did not know how extensive these continents were, how far they were from Asia or if there was some water route across them. People were still looking for the water route even in the 19th Century, including Lewis and Clark.

Originally posted by skjalddis
reply to post by Phage

 

The Chinese map is a fake?
Thanks for that, saves me wasting time with it then.

J

No the map is real

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter

No the map is real

The map created in 1763 is evidently real, but is its purported source? That supposed to have been created in 1418?

If you have evidence or further information on this, then please post it - otherwise your assertion is pointless.

peace
J