Was North America mapped in 1154

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The map above is the Maroccan Al-Idrisi's world map from 1154. Does this map infact show the outline of North America? Just study it a little and compare it with the map below, which is from a 1920 atlas. It certainly doesn't look like anything else to me....

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Also, check this out:

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This is supposedly a Chinese world map drawn in 1418(!). Let me quote from the site where I found it:

The Turks have Piri Reis, whose 1513 map shows parts of America and Antarctica with astonishing and, in the case of Antarctica, frankly inexplicable accuracy. The Chinese have this map to demonstrate that the story of how the ‘West’ discovered the World is only one of many versions of the very earliest form of globalisation.

The map is similar to many present-day Chinese world maps in that it positions at the centre of the map China (which used self-confidently to refer to itself as the “Middle Kingdom”), and not Europe. It states that it is a 1763 copy of a fifteenth-century original. Chinese characters written beside the map say it was drawn by Mo Yi Tong and copied from a map made in the 16th year of the Emperor Yongle, or 1418.

Source: bigthink.com...

And speaking of Piri Reis. Here is his map from 1513:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f60259451a75.jpg[/atsimg]

How could Piri Reis be able to draw the coastline of Antarctica as it looks without all the ice???

The Piri Reis map shows the western coast of Africa, the eastern coast of South America, and the northern coast of Antarctica. The northern coastline of Antarctica is perfectly detailed. The most puzzling however is not so much how Piri Reis managed to draw such an accurate map of the Antarctic region 300 years before it was discovered, but that the map shows the coastline under the ice. Geological evidence confirms that the latest date Queen Maud Land could have been charted in an ice-free state is 4000 BC.

Source: www.world-mysteries.com...

Your topmost map has North at the bottom - this arrangement was common on maps back then. You need to flip it upside down to compare with later ones. The line that you see running down the middle of the large landmass on the upper half of the map is actually the river Nile, if I'm not mistaken. That's not to say that I don't think that there is anything in these ancient maps, I very much do, but I don't think that one is of America.
It needs to be rotated, you can see the correspondence better then.

J

edit to add - that Chinese map is much more impressive however, now that one is interesting..

Nice,
I have always had an interest in this subject and the second thread I made was similar in fashion to this one.
If you get a chance check it out www.abovetopsecret.com...
You may find it interesting.
There is a lot of evidence to support many trans-oceanic journeys. I wonder why it's not taken seriously?

While the first map slightly resembles the North American continent, it only does so slightly and I would not say that it is a map of North America. Through process of elimination alone, I would say no, as we can see that North America doesn't have a huge lake in the middle of Mississippi and Louisiana, with little islands in the middle of said lake.

As far as the Piri Reis map, it doesn't show Antarctica, though it does show the coast of South America, particularly Brazil. I think it's important to note that one of the maps used by Piri Reis to create this famous map, was from Cristopher Columbus himself, so having the coast of Brazil mapped, is only a little surprising. Again, it doesn't show the coast Antarctica. The map even leaves the clearly accurate coast of Brazil in the wrong place to be Antarctica. Also, the theory by von Daniken that the map centers on Egypt is also false, as it only takes holding the map up to a globe to easily debunk that for yourself.

--airspoon

Looks like Eurasia and Africa.

It seems there should be a translation to all of that Arabic writing. The thing that catches my eye with this map is the "Delta" that is shown, if you flip it and think of Africa being mishandled down and around the circumference and that this "Delta" is actual the Nile, then you begin to see the Mediterranean. Also Saudi Arabia looks about right.

In the flipped version it shows the Black Sea spilling into the Mediterranean.

I really think this river "Delta" that is shown is Egypt.

reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic

About the top map -- no amount of tilting my head could find North America in it.

The Chinese map is much closer to accurate all round if it is from 15th century.

As has been pointed out, in the Moroccan map south is "up". Turn it over and it is obviously the Mediterranean and Middle East region.

The 1421 map is largely dismissed as a forgery and not a very good one.

A fragment of the map was carbon-dated at the Waikato University unit, which said its tests showed there was an 80 per cent probability that the paper dated to either 1640-1690 or 1730-1810.

www.1421exposed.com...
www.1421exposed.com...



The Piri Reis Map is an ok map for its time but does not depict Antarctica.

Thereafter, the Piri Reis Map drifts into the Twilight Zone. It shows South America swinging far to the east. Given that the map so far has done fairly well in latitude, we can be sure the coastline is not Antarctica. Also, if the map draws on ancient knowledge to show things no 16th century explorer would have known, why is the coastline continuous? So why isn't there open water between South America and "Antarctica?" You can't seize on an accidental resemblance to a couple of bumps on the coast of Antarctica and blithely ignore the failure to show the Drake Passage!

www.uwgb.edu...

whoa, I think it is important to point out that in both bizarre, controversial maps, The Gulf of Mexico is covered in Land. What does that mean? Could Atlantis be a repeat story?

Also, it looks like land was somehow added in The Pacific Northwest. There are some strange energies there, and it makes me wonder if this is a result of artificial vortexes there. You know, like in The Superman movie where Lex Luther wanted to raise up an island from The Sea, using Kryptonite, perhaps there is more to that than we think. Perhaps everything about the history we have been taught is a lie, maybe the times have been mixed up, could it be possible that an advanced civilization came to Earth, slaughtered most of us real humans, and replaced us with hollow shells of people, synthetic clones, and cyborgs?

just a thought, don't flame my creativity, it comes with being a Conspiracy Theorist.

reply to post by Phage


The Chinese map is a fake?
Thanks for that, saves me wasting time with it then.

J

reply to post by skjalddis

The map shown is alleged to be a copy of of the original, which has never been found. The second article I link goes into the difficulties with that.

Like a few of you have pointed out, the first map I posted has South in the top. However, turning the map around will reveal what might look like Eurasia+North Africa down to the Horn. However, I DO find it intriguing that when south is up (as the chartmaker wanted it), it DOES resemble North America more than it resembles Eurasia and North Africa when turned the other way. Atleast that's my honest opinion.

Originally posted by leira7
whoa, I think it is important to point out that in both bizarre, controversial maps, The Gulf of Mexico is covered in Land. What does that mean? Could Atlantis be a repeat story?

Also, it looks like land was somehow added in The Pacific Northwest. There are some strange energies there, and it makes me wonder if this is a result of artificial vortexes there. You know, like in The Superman movie where Lex Luther wanted to raise up an island from The Sea, using Kryptonite, perhaps there is more to that than we think. Perhaps everything about the history we have been taught is a lie, maybe the times have been mixed up, could it be possible that an advanced civilization came to Earth, slaughtered most of us real humans, and replaced us with hollow shells of people, synthetic clones, and cyborgs?

just a thought, don't flame my creativity, it comes with being a Conspiracy Theorist.

I do know that Florida use to have much more land mass during the last ice age. Natives in the area settled in coastal areas. Once the ice melted, sea levels rose, wiping out their settlements. That is why there is few articfacts from this time period. Of course this wouldn't explain things in the 1400's. I think the simplest explanation is inferior surveying and map making.

I am not buying that the third map is a replica of the 1421 Piri map. First, it would take the Chinese many years to detail rivers and the coastline. Second, I think they would've encountered major problems near Antartica on their voyage.

Originally posted by sligtlyskeptical

I do know that Florida use to have much more land mass during the last ice age.

Rise in sea levels change all the time. Just 5000 (five thousand) years ago, sea levels were about 10 meters lower. Climate change isn't something new, and sea levels will keep on rising for quite a while. I remember I was visiting some friends of the family to watch an off-shore boat race (the formula one of boats) in a neighbouring town. Their house was on top of an island where I was given some very old and gigantic "rur" (Balanidae) and they were found when they dug out the foundations for their house, and was dated back to second last ice age. Their house lie about 25 meters over present sea level, and the Balanidae lives in and around the surface of the sea. We live in a world of water it seems, and nearly everything we humans have made is placed by or slightly above current sea level. Curiously enough the family we visited were boat builders many generations back.

Originally posted by Quadrivium
Nice,
I have always had an interest in this subject and the second thread I made was similar in fashion to this one.
If you get a chance check it out www.abovetopsecret.com...
You may find it interesting.
There is a lot of evidence to support many trans-oceanic journeys. I wonder why it's not taken seriously?

S/F for you mate. Another puzzling thing is how oak is found everywhere in the world, although it is native of the northern hemisphere you can find it in tropical environments and just about all over the world. Oak is perfect timber for making boats. It doesnot rot very fast and is sturdy and rigorous as hell. It would have been impossible for the old Norse sailors to cross the Atlantic without oak. And naturally, the sailors would bring with them vast amounts of oak nuts in case they would have to repair or rebuild ships (although it would take quite a while waiting for the trees to mature).

Originally posted by Phage
As has been pointed out, in the Moroccan map south is "up". Turn it over and it is obviously the Mediterranean and Middle East region.

The 1421 map is largely dismissed as a forgery and not a very good one.

A fragment of the map was carbon-dated at the Waikato University unit, which said its tests showed there was an 80 per cent probability that the paper dated to either 1640-1690 or 1730-1810.

www.1421exposed.com...
www.1421exposed.com...

If you had taken the time to read the quoted text I added just below the 1418 (not 1421) map, you'd notice that the Chinese map is an 18th century copy of a map made in 1418, or:

The map is similar to many present-day Chinese world maps in that it positions at the centre of the map China (which used self-confidently to refer to itself as the “Middle Kingdom”), and not Europe. It states that it is a 1763 copy of a fifteenth-century original. Chinese characters written beside the map say it was drawn by Mo Yi Tong and copied from a map made in the 16th year of the Emperor Yongle, or 1418.

Also I am aware that there are disputes about whether or not the Piri Reis map shows the coast of South America or Antarctica. The way I see it, it is about who cries the loudest. Of course, mapping Antarctica as it looked without the ice cap 500 years ago doesn't seem plausible. However, it is not the only one supposedly showing the Antarctica without the icecap. How about this one:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/91181aac6fd5.jpg[/atsimg]

The Oronteus Finaeus map is from 1531 and shows Antarctic continent with rivers and mountains, without the ice. And before you start jumping saying it is Australia, since the text on the map says "Terra Australis", know that Australis means "Southern", as in Aurora Australis ("Southern Lights"), and Terra Australis means the Southern Continent. And you can see the tip of South America slightly touching the continent.

And why not throw in another Hitler myth: The Nazis were said to have used this and similar maps to build submarine bases below the Antarctic continent. Hitler was said to be extra interested in a clieve nearly dividing Antarctica in two.

While Phage's links and others observations are enough to close debate, I would simply point out on the first map that شرق" translates to East and غرب translates to West They are upside down.

reply to post by Moonsouljah


That the chartographer used south being up doesn't mean it doesnot resemble North America. We all know south is up on the first map. Makes no difference. Later today, I'll see if I can produce an animation to show the many similarities with both Eurasia and North America.

reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic


i wonder if you have a better copy of the arabic map or a clearer one so that i can translate it into english.

but as a first glance i can tell you that its not north america , as the others told you to flip it , i will show you

but what strikes me most is what you will find in the upper right , he mentions GOG AND MAGOG

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/567a5f3ca044.jpg[/atsimg]

isnt that interesting ?