"My parents didn't fight off communism..."

reply to post by Darkrunner


What do you mean by redeeming, be more specific, because I might say something and then you might go aaaahh, no, that is not redeeming.

When you tell me what you mean by redeeming, give me an example of redeeming in Capitalism so I can understand better and answer your question properly.

Thanks

Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by Darkrunner

 

What do you mean by redeeming, be more specific, because I might say something and then you might go aaaahh, no, that is not redeeming.

When you tell me what you mean by redeeming, give me an example of redeeming in Capitalism so I can understand better and answer your question properly.

Thanks

From your last reply to me about my post regarding people living under the boot of communism, I assumed you thought me an unapologetic supporter of capitalism.

I am not.

But I will take it over communism. Communism goes against human nature. Namely, greed. That is why it has to be enforced with an iron fist. And if you disagree with it, chances are, you won't be seen again.

Would it be nice if we had a classless society where everyone was equal and taken care of? Of course.

But that's not going to happen unless there is a paradigm shift in the nature of humanity.

reply to post by Darkrunner


I still want to know what do you mean by redeeming, and how does greed redeeming?

I don't get it/

I get your point though, that you would prefer Capitalism, but isn't that your own perception?

Communism has much good, for example the poor are not left behind, that is not good for the greedy, but it is good for the needy. It actually rhymes, so greedy VS needy, I would prefer needy, give them a job would be good/

reply to post by oozyism


Greed is not a noble virtue, but it is a part of human nature, for better or worse.

By redeeming I mean, what part of the communist philosophy do you find admirable? What do you find positive about the philosophy?

My point was anytime communism is tried it has to be enforced, often times brutally. Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot...all different versions on the same theme of communism. And you will accept it or die.

Capitalism has it's share of faults, make no mistake. But given my choice between the two, I know what one I want to live under,

reply to post by Darkrunner


You concentrate on the negative of Communism, what the leaders of Communism has done is no different than what the American forefathers have done, you can't judge Capitalism based on the American forefathers, similarly, you can't judge Communism based on the Communist leaders.

Because if I was to judge your Democracy, I would go right to the beginning and judge that Democracy based on the genocide committed against Indian Americans.

That being said, I find the fact that the innocent poor people are taken care of, at the hard times. Greed also means ownership of slaves, and slavery is on the rise, what do you make of that?

reply to post by SarK0Y

that ideology allowed to build Great Industrial Country with Great achievements in all branches of Science. USA could have kept approx. level only with help of dollar as the World currency CCCP was destructed no because of uselessness of System, but perfectly due to idiots like gorbachev at Main Wheel

If one single bureaucrat can topple a government, that speaks volumes to the strength of that government.

Originally posted by RKWWWW

I agree. Let us not waste time second guessing the past and wallowing in fear. We have nothing to lose but human life. Full speed ahead, and remember, our motto is "True Communism Has never Been Tried".

Would you waste your time thinking about how capitalism works for us? We are losing nothing but human life for the financial gain of a few large corporations. It's not like they have to die, we have proven natural cures for serious diseases like Cancer, MS, cystic fibrosis, diabetes. But we'll let them die because we cannot patent a natural cure, there are not enough synthetic ingredients in it to monopolize our sales. Not that we care much for cures as we do for treatments. The Federal Drug Association is a publicly funded corporation, this means they have a legal responsibility to raise stockholder value. They are not concerned with making people better; if they get better they cannot make money off of them, they are concerned with temporarily suppressing the effects of diseases so that you keep coming back to them with your checkbook and signing your life off to drugs that have hundreds of side effects and create even more diseases that you will need to buy more medication to treat. The genius of capitalism is the fall of man for someone's profit, so let's pretend its better than communism because we don't have to look at those dying on a daily basis; because the democratic government is killing the people it controls with disease rather than weaponry -- that is a more humane approach to using the suffering of millions for personal profit, or maybe the media (which receives hundreds of millions of dollars in federal grants every year) has just done a very good job of keeping this all hushed so that they can get more money too.

I'm not even going to get into the homeless rates and crime rates because I've done enough of that in this thread.

reply to post by SarK0Y

capitalism makes monopolies: cheap goods make maximal profit, but really qualitive & safe production cannot be cheap just see at the statistics of obesity in USA, which was made thanks to Imperia of holy Mcdonalds Amen Mcdonalds

Monopoly Defined:

1. Exclusive control by one group of the means of producing or selling a commodity or service:

Communism Defined:

1. A theoretical economic system characterized by the collective ownership of property and by the organization of labor for the common advantage of all members.

2. Communism a. A system of government in which the state plans and controls the economy and a single, often authoritarian party holds power, claiming to make progress toward a higher social order in which all goods are equally shared by the people.

Take note of the remarkable similarities between monopolies and communism, and contrast that with capitalism:

Capitalism Defined:

An economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned and development is proportionate to the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market.

Originally posted by RKWWWW

I agree. Let us not waste time second guessing the past and wallowing in fear. We have nothing to lose but human life. Full speed ahead, and remember, our motto is "True Communism Has never Been Tried".

The point that I think is getting lost in the shuffle here is that "true communism" has been tried. In fact it's been tried a lot. Not just Russia and China, but Cuba, Cambodia, Vietnam. Laos, Mozambique, Angola... among others.

And under a series of variants... Marxism, Leninism, Maoism, Titoism... The list goes on and on.

And again we find the ultimate truth of communism simply by a brief overview of its history. It always gets hijacked by those empowered to oversee it. That is the inherent and damning flaw of it. Communism, in it's ideal form cannot exist because it relies upon people existing in an ideal state that just doesn't happen. It is a house of cards and it will always fall in upon itself because of the reality of human nature.

To forget that fact, and its historical support, with hopeful thoughts and a well intentioned heart would just lead to repeating the sins of our fathers and their mistakes. What feels noble, to some... this drive to set things right with a communistic spirit, is a frighteningly innocent and unwise urge.

Communism cannot work. Wanting it to doesn't change that fact.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


Ideas and definitions are great. Reality is a lot different. If you think that the United States' government isn't the same monopolizing garbage as communist countries', you are looking in the wrong places.

Originally posted by Brood
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

 

Ideas and definitions are great. Reality is a lot different. If you think that the United States' government isn't the same monopolizing garbage as communist countries', you are looking in the wrong places.

The United States government is absolutely an example of monopolizing garbage and by definition are not capitalistic. That is why clearly defining words are important. It is pointless to define The United States as a capitalist nation when clearly that nation is not.

Originally posted by Brood

Originally posted by Snarf

how do you know that several people haven't educated themselves and formed their OWN opinions?

Because if they did, there would be no argument

.

If by this you are asserting that communism is self-evidently a desirable system, and that anyone who disagrees does not have an independent opinion on the subject, you are just flat out wrong on both counts. I welcome a debate on communist theory in a separate thread (would not want to derail this one).

Originally posted by Brood

Originally posted by RKWWWW

I agree. Let us not waste time second guessing the past and wallowing in fear. We have nothing to lose but human life. Full speed ahead, and remember, our motto is "True Communism Has never Been Tried".

Would you waste your time thinking about how capitalism works for us? We are losing nothing but human life for the financial gain of a few large corporations. It's not like they have to die, we have proven natural cures for serious diseases like Cancer, MS, cystic fibrosis, diabetes. But we'll let them die because we cannot patent a natural cure, there are not enough synthetic ingredients in it to monopolize our sales. Not that we care much for cures as we do for treatments. The Federal Drug Association is a publicly funded corporation, this means they have a legal responsibility to raise stockholder value. They are not concerned with making people better; if they get better they cannot make money off of them, they are concerned with temporarily suppressing the effects of diseases so that you keep coming back to them with your checkbook and signing your life off to drugs that have hundreds of side effects and create even more diseases that you will need to buy more medication to treat. The genius of capitalism is the fall of man for someone's profit, so let's pretend its better than communism because we don't have to look at those dying on a daily basis; because the democratic government is killing the people it controls with disease rather than weaponry -- that is a more humane approach to using the suffering of millions for personal profit, or maybe the media (which receives hundreds of millions of dollars in federal grants every year) has just done a very good job of keeping this all hushed so that they can get more money too.

I'm not even going to get into the homeless rates and crime rates because I've done enough of that in this thread.

Am I advocating capitalism? Cuz I read back through my posts and can't see where I'm advocating capitalism. so I'll ignore that strawman.

Is there some reason why those who are challenged with the dismal historical record of communism feel compelled to deflect the issue by pointing out the shortcomings, real or otherwise, of capitalism, or worse yet, to lamely disavow the historical existence of "true" communism? If you actually think communism would benefit mankind, you'd do better to further that idea with a frank discussion of the horrific failures of past efforts to implement communism, and how those failures could be avoided in the future.

Communism is not feared, it is widely accepted as a viable form of governmental ruling. What is and has been feared time and time again are the lunatics being put in control of such nations! And without trying to offend, your parents did not fight off anything, they invaded and raped Vietnam under the flawed and highly prejudicial premise that they were sent there to stop 'Chinese expansion.'

That's all.

reply to post by Brood


Actually, you're wrong. Communism is the enemy of individual liberty, therefore is inherently evil. It is a means of control for the inept. It's also why I, and millions of other Americans own weapons.

Originally posted by aurocas
Communism is not feared, it is widely accepted as a viable form of governmental ruling. What is and has been feared time and time again are the lunatics being put in control of such nations! And without trying to offend, your parents did not fight off anything, they invaded and raped Vietnam under the flawed and highly prejudicial premise that they were sent there to stop 'Chinese expansion.'

I disagree only with the first sentence and agree with the rest, but I'm actually just replying to raise the obvious question neglected by this post: How come lunatics have wound up in control every single time Communism has been tried?

When you see an unexpected pattern, it's time to start questioning the theory.

Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by Darkrunner

 

You concentrate on the negative of Communism, what the leaders of Communism has done is no different than what the American forefathers have done, you can't judge Capitalism based on the American forefathers, similarly, you can't judge Communism based on the Communist leaders.

Because if I was to judge your Democracy, I would go right to the beginning and judge that Democracy based on the genocide committed against Indian Americans.

That being said, I find the fact that the innocent poor people are taken care of, at the hard times. Greed also means ownership of slaves, and slavery is on the rise, what do you make of that?

As long as those poor people don't dare question the state, they will be taken care of. If those people want to get involved in politics different from the ruling party, their families are liable not to see them again.

I haven't had to worry about going to the gulag under capitalism.

At least not yet....

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

If one single bureaucrat can topple a government, that speaks volumes to the strength of that government.

gorbachev wasn't just unique, clownish idiot -- CCCP had gotten critical mass a-la him & fate of the Country was solved.

2. Communism a. A system of government in which the state plans and controls the economy and a single, often authoritarian party holds power, claiming to make progress toward a higher social order in which all goods are equally shared by the people.

my friend, planned economy of CCCP was based upon scientific research for each Industrial Branch & i completely failed to see something bad on it you're just using dogmas from books economically, USA had Nothing to really compare against CCCP w\o lovely bucks: high-tech a-la Cosmonautics, Aviations... is incredible, & was made after grave War, WWII, which perfectly had ruined the Economy. Chernobyl was solved by very professional & brave people. now, USA has had very hard trouble with GOM, but fedZ can Nothing to deal with that challenge because of prime question is money.

An economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned and development is proportionate to the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market.

sorry, i desperate failed to see how my words contradict with that definition of capitalism Just a question, who will be a Victor in Free Market: one, who makes small amount of production or second, who issues massive amount, but worse quality than first. second question, my friend: why should so many factories have transfered to China, they can make better than Europe/USA or cuz their people work just for food?

If we were in China, Cuba, N. Korea etc. right now and wanted to have a conversation on the virtues of capitalism, we couldn't. Those who want to live with electrical tape over their mouths can go for communism. Dissent, open discussion and freedom are not good for the state under communism and since people, under communism, are the property of the state - they need to obey or answer the knock at the door at midnight. Under communism, the lowest common denominator prevails because it is a collective. That means collective property, collective utterances, collective thoughts etc. There's no rape in communism because women are the property of the state. How many want to take their wives and daughters down that path? How many here wanted to grow up and become ants?

IMO, though, communism always fails because it is godless. The state doesn't inspire.

reply to post by luxordelphi

Dissent, open discussion and freedom are not good for the state under communism and since people, under communism, are the property of the state - they need to obey or answer the knock at the door at midnight.

oh, c'mon, my friend war on the World terrorism makes the same btw, read it

because it is a collective. That means collective property, collective utterances, collective thoughts etc. There's no rape in communism because women are the property of the state. How many want to take their wives and daughters

completely rubbish, where you got it????????????