UFO over Australia -- 17-09-2010

Originally posted by Astr0
RAAF F-111 doing a 'dump and burn'.

www.youtube.com...

Identical in all aspects - so it gets my vote as a logical possibility.

Go through Youtube and look at all the Australian dump and burn videos. The F-111 does a neat climb with the trailing fuel set alight which produces that massive 'ball of light' effect that hides all the navigation and other lights - and yes it does indeed illuminate the clouds as it travels along (if they are present).

at first i thought "oh no a lens flare video!" then i saw what he was really taking a video of. it's interesting how it lights up the clouds above it. very cool video. thanks OP

reply to post by askbaby


...where to start?

We now know... ...that the onscreen capabilities are stopped during recording.

We do? According to who? You don't own the phone and as far as I can tell you don't have one available for testing. Even if that were true you cannot rule out a software or firmware error in the camera that causes a portion of audio to be recored even if the microphone is set to 0 in the video camera application. This is especially true on the first use of the device after the 0 condition is set.

It doesn't sound like the car traveling towards the person, it just sounds like an atmospheric sound.
It now bothers me a lot.

Huh? It sounds exactly like car tires rolling on pavement and being affected by doppler shift.

I assume from your responses gift0fpr0phecy that you do not personally own the LG KP500 Smartphone... I am very interested in someone who has this device making an attempt at recording with audio switched on and then covering the microphone - so that we can see (well... 'hear') if covering the microphone can completely mute the sound...

Neither do you and I don't see how this test is germane to the video. The videographer did not claim this is what happened.

Unfortunately - as with all videos, if one piece fails then the whole thing has to be called into question.

Oh brother.

T.

Originally posted by askbaby
reply to post by gift0fpr0phecy

 

I assume from your responses gift0fpr0phecy that you do not personally own the LG KP500 Smartphone... I am very interested in someone who has this device making an attempt at recording with audio switched on and then covering the microphone - so that we can see (well... 'hear') if covering the microphone can completely mute the sound...

You are correct, I do not own an LG Cookie (KP500) which is a lower end phone. I own an LG Dare (VW9700) which is a higher end phone, but a year older.

I have seen the interface for the LG cookie, and it is nearly completely identical to the LG dare. I wouldn't doubt it all uses the same hardware too.

Just so you know, I tried recording a video with my LG Dare and completely blocking the microphone hole with my finger, and no matter what you can still hear a "fuzz" or "background noise". It will not completely stop the sound because you can not actually touch the microphone membrane, so the microphone will still pick up small vibrations.

I wouldn't doubt the LG cookie is exactly the same.

reply to post by Triangulum


It's impossible for the user reach the control interface while recording. I already posted a video of someone explaining the video recorder on video. When you press record, all the controls disappear from the screen and all you are left with is pause and stop, and other icons which explain which settings you have chosen.

It's impossible to mute the sound while recording.

Also, my LG Dare is the same. You can't change video settings while recording. This is because all processing power is being used to capture video.

reply to post by Astr0


Nice video, and I definitely see this as a 'logical possibility' but I do not see it as 'identical in all aspects':

There are three problems that I have when comparing these two videos:

1. The F-111 dumping shown in your video produces the effect of lighting up the clouds beneath the aircraft and across the sky. As one would expect...
The Ops video posted in this thread shows the clouds directly above the object to light up, it is this effect that is singularly unusual. I do not see that the dumping of fuel could cause ONLY the area immediately above an aircraft to light up? Would we not see the actual dumping... ie the sky light up, all we see is the area immediately above the object light up?

2. If this were an aircraft then it makes a most unusual maneuver, first traveling towards the camera, seemingly stopping for several seconds and then turning very sharply and then moving to the left. It seems to stop at the 20 second mark and stays there until about 26 seconds, before moving to the left (actually almost back upon itself) and lighting the sky immediately above itself. It looks more like a maneuver made by a helicopter than an aircraft.

If this is an aircraft then it must be one with the ability to stop or slow down significantly/turn a very sharp angle... I am no expert at all on that subject, I could imagine a Harrier Jump jet doing such a sharp turn for example...

3. If this were an aircraft performing a dump, would we not be able to see the aircraft once it completes the dump. What we see here is that everything goes dark, the object seemingly completely disappears... whereas in the F-111 video we clearly see the aircraft continue after the dumping.

SUMMARY:
This is the closest to an explanation that I have seen offered, and one would imagine that such an effect would produce a sound? (again I am no expert) and this might explain the reason that the person who captured this decided to mute the sound... as is being discussed separately...

Can more 'aircraft fuel dumping experts' please chime in...

askbaby.

Tough call, the video is among the best but, The fact that he got it coming from horizon is odd. Usual reaction when you see something strange in the sky at a distance on the horizon at night is to try to figure it out, not go straight for the camera. Pretty lucky, it came straght for him, from the horizon it might have gone in any other direction and mess up the shot. A little to convenient for my skeptical nature.

Originally posted by gift0fpr0phecy
reply to post by Astr0

 

I think you are right. That was my second guess. This could be a jet's afterburner.

It would light up the clouds exactly like the video. Also, the inconsistent flickering is completely identical. I bet the camera operator just witnessed the takeoff of a military jet using afterburners.

I think that answers all the questions about the object in the video perfectly.

Also, if it was a jet using afterburn the guy holding the camera had to have heard a sound. I think they intentionally hid the sound to make the video more interesting.

How do you account for the five-second 180-degree change in direction at full afterburner? Also, aerobatic maneuvers at night over a population center? Third gras... I mean guess?

T.

Originally posted by gift0fpr0phecy
reply to post by Astr0

 

I think you are right. That was my second guess. This could be a jet's afterburner.

It would light up the clouds exactly like the video. Also, the inconsistent flickering is completely identical. I bet the camera operator just witnessed the takeoff of a military jet using afterburners.

I think that answers all the questions about the object in the video perfectly.

edit on 29-9-2010 by gift0fpr0phecy because: (no reason given)

So how do we exactly explain the movement and the path the object creates?
It sure does look like its moving to the opposite direction of where it came from, even possibly higher considering the difference of lightning of the clouds after it moves away from the light pole.

Rugu

okay...thats weird. It doesnt look fake, a bright light in the sky could be anything, but to circle back like that? could be a remote toy or something, but dunno...for once i dont know what to say other then "thier coming to get you!!!" lol

But seriously, hand that in to mufon, they would be interseted in that

At first I thought we were just looking at the light flares and then I noticed the moving glob of light.

Awesome video and it is definitely compelling, I just cannot wait until all videos are in HD.

Pred...

Originally posted by askbaby
reply to post by Astr0

 

1. The F-111 dumping shown in your video produces the effect of lighting up the clouds beneath the aircraft and across the sky. As one would expect...
The Ops video posted in this thread shows the clouds directly above the object to light up, it is this effect that is singularly unusual. I do not see that the dumping of fuel could cause ONLY the area immediately above an aircraft to light up? Would we not see the actual dumping... ie the sky light up, all we see is the area immediately above the object light up?

First I must say now, that the object in the video is of a jet taking off from an airport, using afterburners.

In the beginning of the video, the sky near the object is flashing with the object, but faintly. It isn't until the object gets near the street light that it starts to light the sky. I believe this happens because in the beginning of the video the object is at a lower altitude, and when it's near the street light, it is at a higher altitude, closer to the clouds.

Originally posted by askbaby
2. If this were an aircraft then it makes a most unusual maneuver, first traveling towards the camera, seemingly stopping for several seconds and then turning very sharply and then moving to the left. It seems to stop at the 20 second mark and stays there until about 26 seconds, before moving to the left (actually almost back upon itself) and lighting the sky immediately above itself. It looks more like a maneuver made by a helicopter than an aircraft.

If this is an aircraft then it must be one with the ability to stop or slow down significantly/turn a very sharp angle... I am no expert at all on that subject, I could imagine a Harrier Jump jet doing such a sharp turn for example...

I do not believe the object ever travels towards the camera. I believe that is an illusion caused by perspective. I believe the object is traveling left to right at an upward angle, and the upward angle created the illusion of it getting closer. Also, the light might have gotten brighter (larger) and also helped with the illusion.

Where you think it stopped at the 20 second mark, I believe the object made a left turn and was flying away from the camera. This would make the object appear to be in one spot, but in reality is moving away from the camera. After that, I believe it made another left turn, and that is when it appeared to fly to the left.

It all can be explained by perspective.

Originally posted by askbaby
3. If this were an aircraft performing a dump, would we not be able to see the aircraft once it completes the dump. What we see here is that everything goes dark, the object seemingly completely disappears... whereas in the F-111 video we clearly see the aircraft continue after the dumping.

No, the video he posted does not show the jet turning off afterburners. When the jet turns off afterburners you do not see any light coming from it. It is a normal turbine engine at the point.

Originally posted by askbaby
SUMMARY:
This is the closest to an explanation that I have seen offered, and one would imagine that such an effect would produce a sound? (again I am no expert) and this might explain the reason that the person who captured this decided to mute the sound... as is being discussed separately...

Can more 'aircraft fuel dumping experts' please chime in...

askbaby.

Yes, you would definitely hear a low frequency rumble, almost like the distant rumble of thunder but more constant.

A jet turbine does not produce any light unless they use the afterburner (fuel dump). They usually use the afterburner on takeoff, which is what I believe the OP's video is showing, a takeoff of a jet using afterburner.

Originally posted by Astr0
RAAF F-111 doing a 'dump and burn'.

www.youtube.com...

Identical in all aspects - so it gets my vote as a logical possibility.

Only problem is the Australian F-111's are no longer in service, having been retired earlier this year. So it could not be an F-111 on this date.

Re Sound.... yep there is the sound of the passing car in the first two seconds of his video.. and after no other traffic or sounds are heard.. so maybe the sound wasn't removed or muted, perhaps it was simply quiet at 5am that day in Nowra (?) and that would not be impossible in a small town/city at that time of day.

I know 5am here is deathly quiet with the exception of the odd car on the street.

reply to post by Triangulum


Hello Triangulum

ABOUT ME:
I am a Skeptic, not a "Basher", I am not emotional, nor do I pick out people and bash them, I am respectful of everyone in this Forum, even those who choose to become emotional towards me...

Before you continue to make responses - especially ending with the dismissive words "Oh brother" and a smiley - to my recent post, please can you take a minute to read ALL of my posts in this thread. I am actually extremely interested in this video and remain very intrigued about it. Not emotionally connected to it at all, purely interested in the video, and as of right now I do not know what we are seeing.

My first post in this thread still stands you can see it on Page 7 towards the bottom, whereby I am unable to logically describe what we are seeing. I certainly do not come into this thread with a load of baggage or trying to bash the thread at all. I also encourage you to read through every single one of my previous posts where I try very hard to maintain a logical perspective on the topic at hand.


YOUR FIRST POINT - THE PHONE ITSELF and the AUDIO:

Like many others I first thought the video was completely muted (as quoted by Maybe Maybe Not on the first page of this thread). The concern about the audio was brought to light by gift0fpr0phecy and my subsequent discussion with gift0fpr0phecy is specifically about the issue he brought to light: that for 2 seconds there is sound, followed by seemingly completely muted video. This differs from the original story about the video being completely muted, hence the concern.

You are 100% correct that I do not own this specific Smartphone, I own HTC devices and would have indicated if I owned such a device. Therefore I rely upon credible sources such as the original user manual etc and I try to refer to such when I can.

I certainly cannot prove or disprove firmware errors, changes or mods made to someone elses Smartphone, for me to even suggest something like that would stray from my intent of finding out the facts about this video. During my discussion with gift0fpr0phecy it was obvious that he owns a near likeness to the LG KP500 and he indicated that the onscreen functionality is inoperative during recording, I asked several questions including the use of the rocker switches, possible muting of the device by accidental (or purposeful) covering of the microphone...
On Page 8 of this topic I described the options that I saw, and I quote:
"Either:
1. The audio has been (badly) muted after recording... which makes this suspect.
or
2. The audio level reduced to 0 through the rocker switches (if that is possible) after two seconds?
or
3. The microphone has been covered after two seconds?"

As you can see I am simply presenting logical thoughts and then after continuing my conversation with gift0fpr0phecy I say this, again on Page 8... and again I quote:
"I assume from your responses gift0fpr0phecy that you do not personally own the LG KP500 Smartphone... I am very interested in someone who has this device making an attempt at recording with audio switched on and then covering the microphone - so that we can see (well... 'hear') if covering the microphone can completely mute the sound... "


YOUR SECOND POINT:
"Huh? It sounds exactly like car tires rolling on pavement and being affected by doppler shift. ".

You may be right, the sound lasts for less than 2 seconds. there is clearly sound, like I say on Page 8 when I start the discussion about the 2 seconds of audio... it sounds like "something external"... and then yes - I do say that it "doesn't sound like a car coming towards the viewer"... well that's what I can hear... just the sound of something external rather than a specific car sound... furthermore again on page 8 - I say this (quote):
"However what is interesting is that during those brief 2 seconds, there is hardly any sound at all, the car either does not register or is barely there... so let's assume for a minute that this was a helicopter or other object that made a discernible sound... how loud would that sound actually be on the video, given that the car approaching during the first 2 seconds hardly registers? "
So - yes - granted - the point is that the audio is quiet... one has to wonder what caused the audio to completely and suddenly stop.


SUMMARY OF BOTH POINTS (above), and your comments:
I always become concerned about unusual events in a video, the sudden muting of the sound is an obvious concern, but (for me) does not specifically discredit the video.


YOUR THIRD POINT:
Regarding my interest in someone who owns this specific Smartphone actually trying to mute the video by covering the microphone... you say the following:
"Neither do you and I don't see how this test is germane to the video. The videographer did not claim this is what happened. "
So - for completeness... this is what Maybe Maybe Not quoted the original videographer saying: "My phone video camera was unfortunately set to mute audio at the time, due to the mad rush I was fiddling around too much. I just wanted to get the video before I lost it".
Because there IS audio at the beginning of the video... I want to see if it is possible/probable that someone covering the microphone can mute the sound accidentally or purposefully. In other words - if a person covers the microphone and secondly does this completely mute the sound. If so - then there is a perfectly justifiable reason as to why the majority of the video is seemingly muted after the first 2 seconds...
That's why I ask the question!


YOUR FINAL POINT IS:
"Oh brother"

Presumably referring to my quoted piece, namely: "Unfortunately - as with all videos, if one piece fails then the whole thing has to be called into question."
Erm... we have a posted video for us to discuss, if I find a fault/issue in the video/audio... am I not to have questions about the credibility...
"We need proof beyond a reasonable doubt"... that's what we are after is it not? If I find a fault, I am naturally going to question the credibility...

Now - can we get back on track:

SUMMARY:
Audio: I have a problem with the audio, namely there are 2 seconds of audio, the rest is muted...
Video: What we see on the video itself is singularly interesting... I am not convinced that this is an aircraft (such as the example F-111 YouTube video that was kindly posted by Astr0). In the video we are discussing here - the object is seen to seemingly halt/pause for several seconds (perhaps it is a Harrier Jump Jet or similar - I am no expert?), and then makes a very sharp turn, then seemingly lights only the clouds that are immediately above itself... I look forward to some input from "fuel dumping experts" ...

[edit]
FINAL COMMENT:
This video has now been adequately explained below by gift0fpr0phecy. I stand with his opinion on this video. Many thanks to gift0fpr0phecy.
[/edit]


askbaby OUT (yet again)

Originally posted by Triangulum
How do you account for the five-second 180-degree change in direction at full afterburner? Also, aerobatic maneuvers at night over a population center? Third gras... I mean guess?

T.

The five seconds that the object appears to be stationary is when the jet is flying away from the camera. After the 5 seconds the jet turns and flies back.

Here is a rough illustration of the path. Keep in mind, this is a top down view as if you were above the Earth looking down on the city.

The YELLOW lines represent the jet/objects flight path.

The RED lines represent the cameras viewable area.

The jet/object has 3 trajectories, labeled 1, 2, and 3.

From 0:00 to 0:21 in the video, the jet/object is traveling on trajectory 1. This makes the jet/object appear to go towards the camera. You can't tell from the top view, but it is also gaining altitude and getting closer to the clouds.

From 0:21: to about 0:24 in the video, the jet/object makes a left turn and is traveling on trajectory 2. At this point the jet is flying away from the camera temporarily. From the cameras perspective it appears the object is not moving but it is, just away from the camera.

From 0:24 to 0:50 in the video, the jet has made another left turn and appears to fly the opposite direction it came from, as displayed as trajectory 3.

This is not an aerobatic maneuver, in fact, this is how many commercial and private aircraft takeoff from an airport.

reply to post by RuGu HyPe


My post above should explain.

Here is a better top down view illustration, so you don't think the object/jet is making 90 degree turns.

Keep in mind, this is the top down view so you will have to use your imagination to understand how this same path would look from the cameras view. You need to use your understanding of 3 dimensions.

The part to understand is trajectory number 2. That is where the object/jet seems to be hovering when it is probably flying away from the camera temporarily causing an illusion.

reply to post by Tayesin


It doesn't have to be an F-111, it could be any fighter jet with afterburners.

Also, the sound clearly cuts off and there is not even "noise" or "fuzz" which means the audio track was stopped completely. This is impossible to do while the camera is recording. This hints of someone trying to hide the sound.

reply to post by gift0fpr0phecy


Brilliant.
I needed pictures and diagrams... thank you for clearing this up.
Without your drawing it was completely impossible for me to fathom the track of this aircraft.
I am now in complete agreement with you gift0fpr0phecy.
Doubtless we will never know why the audio was switched off after two seconds.
But, with no evidence to the contrary, I stand with your opinion on this matter...

I will monitor posts for a couple of days and put this one to bed (with the rest of them).
askbaby definitely OUT.

Originally posted by amodedoma
Tough call, the video is among the best but, The fact that he got it coming from horizon is odd. Usual reaction when you see something strange in the sky at a distance on the horizon at night is to try to figure it out, not go straight for the camera.

That's a good point. I wouldn't even be able to grab my phone in that circumstance. I would be looking straight ahead and not at the horizon.

Was the OP in his car or walking? Who walks down the middle of a road OR who stops in the middle of the road driving a car?

reply to post by askbaby


Thanks, and your welcome.

Yes, I was curious at first, but now I feel I know what this is. I personally have my answer now, and I am no longer curious. But I will still debate and support my argument in hopes that someone can find flaws in my argument. I am pretty sure from this point I can explain the entire video as being a jet using afterburners taking off from the ground, and making a U turn.

Here is a video of a jet using afterburner during a U turn.



Although the jet turns the afterburner off after the turn, you could imagine if it was night time the light from the afterburner would appear to stop in mid air and then reverse direction if the afterburner wasn't turned off.