If not ghosts, what is happening?

What do skeptics and debunkers think of shows like GH, GHI, and Ghost Adventures.

They all get EVP's but what about chairs moving, water turning on and off, items manipulated by something other than human manipulation.

On some episodes they have caught shadow people peeking over handrails and seemingly are a solid mass.

Assuming that the evidence is real, if the term ghost doesn't apply, what are these things?

Some appear to be translucent, what is happening here?

It's a big assumption to make ... I assume the majority of these shows are just entertainment and somewhat faked.

Really what are the chances of a TV crew repeatedly getting footage of something that no one seems to be able to get convincing footage of? So very small.

Assuming they real ... People have suggested ghosts, time anomalies, parallel universes and such like ...

This area (ghosts) is one of the areas that I don't have the luxury to be a skeptic in overall, because I have had some very straight forward proof...of...something.

Now, initially, I figured it was a ghost as understood by the context...aka, the continued existance of a former human's consciousness that was interacting with me...however, after discussing it over the years, trying my best to flat out debunk it (unsuccessful), I have decided to rearrange what the concept of ghost is to a more broad label of unexplained phenomona...I am more comfortable with that.

So...my experience was as I generally label, a ghost...but a ghost could be many things, to include long lost relatives, potential wild telekenesis, a fully alive somewhat phased out creature, etc...I simply don't know.

As far as research teams like GH and such, I give props to their attempts...they put too many labels on it and pseduo scientific reasoning behind everything...they speak about things as if they actually know what the hell is going on when they have no clue...but at least they are trying to capture strange things overall.

Do ghosts exist? there is no proof of that, but I believe them simply from experience with something exceptionally curious...I however think one day, many many years from now, such things will be able to be explained by science..even if it means our entire concept of..something..alters from the proof.

just my thoughts on it.

Originally posted by Pinke
Assuming they real ... People have suggested ghosts, time anomalies, parallel universes and such like ...

Yes, that is just it...something odd happens, and suddenly people start labelling it matter of factly when if you step back for a moment, the simply fact that its unknown opens it up for a ton of possibilities.

reply to post by SaturnFX

Saturn FX, I would love to hear your story.

My favorite is Ghost Adventures
It just seems that a lot of the time they do pick some kind of activity up. Now I also have watched GH and they do not get as much activity. Most likely it's for entertainment and that's cool, we get to see abandoned places or somewhere with history that normally we couldn't.
The only thing to really do is go find out for ourselves and make our own conclusions. That Gettysburg episode had me sold! lol I neeeeeed to ghost hunt there!!

Warning language:

Explanation for Ghost Hunters

reply to post by copper5661
I think the legacy of trickery and fakery in this end of the TV market makes them all open to suspicion. UK Most Haunted has had a few instances of fraud...Derek Acorah lied and cheated through 6 series.

They have to entertain so any episode without something happening is a no-no. Psychics and presenters tossing small stones is as old as that famous ghost hunter at Borley Rectory. These EVPs often sound like nothing at all until the subtitles come up and they replay them whilst the presenters look at each other in stunned amazement.

I remember the shadowy guy leaning over the handrail. It was in a kinda lighthouse? There was definitely someone there, but was it a stooge or a ghost?

Despite how this sounds, I'm quite open-minded to this stuff and if something odd turns up it's worth looking at. I posted a thread with what looks like a bright light appearing in thin air and arcing across a room. Looks good to me. Got maybe 3 views and two posts. The thing is...it's a weird light, but where do we go from there?

its all manipulation for comfort.

A religious person gains from believing in stupid things like ghosts because it renforces their ignorant beliefs.

Perhaps they are all ghosts of a type. The Egyptian book of the dead seemed to believe that a human was composed of 9 parts. And I would pose that what is being seen is separated parts of a soul. Possibly the person in question may not even be dead. Just sleeping and a part or parts of his spirit are just out for a jaunt. Or a dead persons spirit who may have separated into it's various parts and are just lurking and loitering.

As the book of the dead puts it.

Thus, as we have seen, the whole man consisted of a natural body, a spiritual body, a heart, a double, a soul, a shadow, an intangible ethereal casing or spirit, a form, and a name. All these were, however, bound together inseparably, and the welfare of any single one of them concerned the welfare of all. For the well-being of the spiritual parts it was necessary to preserve from decay the natural body;

The sahu, the ka, the ba, the khu, the khaibit, the sekhem, and the ren were in primeval times separate and independent parts of man's immortal nature; but in the pyramid texts they are welded together

Perhaps the ancients knew more about a man and the afterlife than the religions that followed. Oddly enough a lot of the terms in the book of the dead show up in Judaism and Christianity as well.

When the Osiris of a man has entered into heaven as a living soul,[4] he is regarded as one of those who "have eaten the eye of Horus he walks among living ones,[1] he becomes "God, the son of God,

He is washed clean, and his ka is washed clean,

Isis saith, 'Happy are they who see the 'father,' and Nephthys saith, 'They who see the father have rest,

Even the dead in heaven were described as stars.

www.sacred-texts.com...

Originally posted by Kandinsky
reply to post by copper5661

 

I think the legacy of trickery and fakery in this end of the TV market makes them all open to suspicion. UK Most Haunted has had a few instances of fraud...Derek Acorah lied and cheated through 6 series.

I think the moment its shown where they willfully used one instance of trickery or fraud, they should be removed from the air..or at least be forced to flash a warning up at the beginning of every episode that the show is entertainment only.

Originally posted by Wertdagf
its all manipulation for comfort.

A religious person gains from believing in stupid things like ghosts because it renforces their ignorant beliefs.

Actually, religious people do not believe in ghosts because it goes against their religion.

hows that for irony...to believe in a immortal soul of God as defined by religious teachings, the first thing you must do is abandon any potential measurable aspect of a immortal soul by the things that go bump in the night.

Originally posted by copper5661
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Saturn FX, I would love to hear your story.

edit on 26-9-2010 by copper5661 because: misspelling

Perhaps the story will one day be written on here, but not overly concerend about it. I have discussed it before with hardened athiest scientists and psychics and everything in between to understand it...ultimately it is simply chalked up to one of those "hmm" things.

-shrugs-

I don't personally believe in any god, and I'm not at all convinced in ghosts, the afterlife, or anything supernatural. Yet I watch shows like this all the time. My mind is open and I hope one day for scientific proof. I know I'm not going to find that proof watching Ghost Hunters anyway, as it can entirely be faked, but I give them the benefit of the doubt and absorb what I see as food-for-thought.

The obvious skeptical explanation is that it is hoaxed.

Every single one of those shows has been busted for faking evidence. None do their investigations in a controlled scientiffic fashion. They have zero credibility. Paranormal State being the worst, misrepresenting a prayer of deliverance as exorcism. Watch their outfit changes and look for the heavy editing.

I've met Chip Coffey, he is legitimate to an extent. Michelle Bollanger is no better than John Edward.

Watch the NGC show that follows up these investigations with a scientiffic investigation.

Originally posted by MrAndy
I don't personally believe in any god, and I'm not at all convinced in ghosts, the afterlife, or anything supernatural. Yet I watch shows like this all the time. My mind is open and I hope one day for scientific proof. I know I'm not going to find that proof watching Ghost Hunters anyway, as it can entirely be faked, but I give them the benefit of the doubt and absorb what I see as food-for-thought.

The obvious skeptical explanation is that it is hoaxed.

I understand your skepticism, and half my brain also believes as you.
being on the other side of the argument puts me in a curious situation however.

Its good to have a open mind both ways..I think the biggest problem is that people try and put understanding on something that has yet to be understood...imprints of energy, a new undetected species of animal outside of our visible spectrum, etc...many possibilities to include the most stated (conscious existance after the shell is expired).

Due to the lack of any evidence, it really comes down to how you choose to believe. I am open to many suggestions...until something comes forward to lead things in a different way, I choose to believe that it may indeed be the soul of dear departed aunt edna or whatnot...but that is simply a desired belief and I would never push it as truth...the only truth I have witnessed is "something odd"...everything after that is simply a completely fabricated opinion based on a desire.

I think some programs are capturing odd things...but it wouldn't be much of a show if they didn't go with a narration of what it is...the hoax comes in their explanation as factual when the true fact is, the only thing they are capturing is simply unknown...and by definition, unknown does not have any facts attached to it...they could make a case for ghosts based on their findings, or fairies, or witches, or aliens, etc...they simply decided to go with the ghost theme...which, even if found to be true, I find to be a leap of conclusion when presenting to the public in a factual manner.

reply to post by copper5661


Dont know but they dont go were theres real data so I doubt them... Like the deep caves of malta for 1 or in some of the ancient temples around 3am in dark or inside the Vatican deep loc. in the dark were its all @. Seems they want money because their ghost got clothes on SMH WHY GHOST NEED CLOTHES?

Originally posted by DrJay1975
Every single one of those shows has been busted for faking evidence. None do their investigations in a controlled scientiffic fashion. They have zero credibility. Paranormal State being the worst, misrepresenting a prayer of deliverance as exorcism. Watch their outfit changes and look for the heavy editing.

I've met Chip Coffey, he is legitimate to an extent. Michelle Bollanger is no better than John Edward.

Watch the NGC show that follows up these investigations with a scientiffic investigation.

That is a interesting take on it. I find the paranormal state to be a comedy show personally, but the ghost hunters thing has not been caught faking anything to my knowledge. They have of course been shown to turn things into a show...which means amping up the most mundane findings...this is to create of course a show worthy of watching though...like shining a really bright light on a dull finding to make it seem far more interesting than it is.

As far as zero credibility until they undergo proper scientific investigation...the problem there is that a scientific investigation would require repeatability and if these "things" are intelligent, you cannot really enslave them into becoming circus preformers when you desire it.

I think the issue here is that our current ability to measure such phenomona is woefully lacking..a bit like trying to see an electron using a magnifying glass...and until we create better tools, it will only lead to frustration.

Perhaps as theoretical quantum physics develops more tools designed to research that field, we may start getting better tools to identify the cause behind the phenomona..I hope to see the day when a "ghost" becomes a measurable understood science without the need for any belief to push its way into the picture.

Sorry dude, but its all simple tricks. Those television shows are just for entertainment. Check out hauntedhoax.net. I'm not saying this man is the authority on ghost debunking but he shows you several tricks used by these liars. Maybe you just want it to be real?

Seems that, at least lately, TAPS has decided to start hoaxing stuff, which means their entire show is discredited.

one can argue that the beginning stuff was straight up and due to high demands of interest, they had to start hoaxing..however, that is not a excuse. If they ever did capture things of interest, in cases like this, you do have to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

So, thanks alot schmucks.

Skepticism is good in this field...I recommend we all collectively stop watching them.

Perhaps this girl should start her own investigating show..she seems more curious about the phenomona verses the glamour