ATS - What Went Wrong?

Originally posted by SLaPPiE
Just look at the mental stability of the community here and realize who created this club for whack jobs.

Thank you,
that's the nicest
thing anyone has
said to me in years.


David Grouchy

Agreed; ATS quality has gone down significantly in a short time span, hence the redesign to make up for the downgrade. Too much redundant garbage being posted, while the good stuff gets censored, deleted, diverted, ridiculed, whatever. Anyway, what do you expect when you opt for quantity over quality?

Since the advertisers only care about numbers and suppressing certain damaging information, what did you really expect?

reply to post by davidgrouchy



That's right ...You are welcome!
Hey I'm here with you in the dirty pool, swimming around with my mouth wide open.

I will say the speed of news posts and current events here is fantastic! (that is a big compliment)
I mean hours to days prior to MSM reports, we get the story quick here.
Now this is the best site feature to me, and 100% of the credit goes to the USERS!

I know that the flag and star system promotes this fast posting of accurate information.
However in the end it only increases post count, and not post accuracy, since:

There is no community driven check and balance
Only the positive star?????
When I see people in control running a system like this I think government, business, profit, and ultimately I will develop a complete lack of respect.

Not anything to do with authority, and all to do with righteousness.

A responsible site or mod would be in this post representing themselves by now.
Just saying (< second liner)

Bring it

This thread is in a forum moderated by: spacedoubt, Spiderj, Jbird, GAOTU789, neformore, Skyfloating, MemoryShock, Dr Love, seagull, maria_stardust, greeneyedleo, AshleyD

Originally posted by Smokersroom
The quality of posting is frankly atrocious. Where once we could sustain long, well-reasoned debates, we are now left to sift through pages and pages of grammatically incorrect, poorly punctuated streams of consciousness.

Could you point to some comparisons between popular topics of old, and those contemporary? This has come up rather often, and each time I ask, no one is able to reach back and show the apparent "feeling" to be based in actuality.

What seems to be at play here is the often favorable emotional attachment we have to "how things used to be." Years ago, as a new member, the nature of the topics on ATS were fresh and seemed like an endless stream of new ideas on provocative topics. Over time, that initial "freshness" fades and fatigue sets in because it seems as though the same topics are being rehashed -- to some degree that may be true, but I believe it's mostly due to members having learned all they need/want on a given topic.

The content of the site is now more likely to draw laughter than engage me in deep thought. The content ranges from UFOs that are clearly birds, Obama is actually the Devil (not metaphorically, actually!), right through to people claiming they can see other people's 'aura' in a photograph.

See above.

There's plenty of examples (and even perhaps a higher percentage of total content) of such content back in the early history of ATS.

The debates, currently, seem to take the form of partisan squabbling, with a relentless descent toward off topic posts and insults. This is not constructive.

A sad reflection of contemporary society. We've consistently tried a range of tactics to end the pointless, unproductive, and often reflexive-moronism of partisan anger... at best, any results have only been temporary. What do you think we (ATS) could have done differently?

The rating and moderation system need to change. Whilst it is all well and good having a rating system that only allows positive recognition of contribution (starring or flagging), the vast majority of the dross on this site deserves a massive thumbs down.

If you see a topic you like, contribute to its benefit such that new flags may be realized.

If you see a topic that you believe to be wrong, contribute to refuting the premise of the opening post so that people's thinking will be challenged and flag-potential diminished.

I know that some of the contributors don't have English as their first language, but terrifyingly enough, some of the most incoherent posts tend to be written by those speaking their mother tongue.

Again a cultural problem of increased apathy.

In my mind, if someone cares about their issue, they should also do their best to express their ideas in a way that inspires others to also care. This is a written medium, if we expect our thoughts -- posted as the written word -- to be taken seriously, then it's up to the post author to portray seriousness through acceptable grammar.

But... contemporary culture intervenes, and a majority of people seem unable to care enough. Again, what can we (ATS) do about such a thing that is well out of our control?

As it has grown we have had to endure an exponential increase in advertising real estate on the site templates.

Actually... our percentage of ad space to content is much less than mainstream news sites or similar outlets. Sure, it's more than it was -- and more than many niche discussion boards -- but we have six servers and a high-performance global CDN which are expensive items to support on a monthly basis. But we do so with a percentage of ad-space much lower than most sites with high monthly costs.

I have worked in web marketing and usability for ten years.

A bit longer on this end. Also worked with Forrester on two very-large, very-high budget usability studies.

In addition to the clutter, the advertising is irrelevant, distracting and scammy. With the incredibly powerful geotargeting and profiling available to publishers, why am I still being sold weightloss products, and fake degrees from the US?

It's because of that profile that you're likely seeing those ads. It sounds like you may be a "power user" and are online a lot. As the ad networks "run through" the available ad inventory that matches your parameters, they default to the low-end of the ad pool for people with a high-rate of page views.

Again... what can ATS do about that?

I have joined a lot of sites over the years - believe me ATS is at the top of the lists! I love the variety of people, even those like myself that are not always adapt at in detail debate and discussion!

Odd,, no place to star the op,..
I smell a conspiracy,..
well there is a reason for dislike of the new ATS, among the many, well nevernind that star thing as the moment I posted the star option appeared,,, thats funny

I just S and F the OP.
Worked fine!

Originally posted by XL5
What I have found is that the men and women behind the curtain like to stay behind the curtain unless a thread like this comes along. Then they will project them selves and declare in some boooming lines of text, something to this effect: please direct all complaints to the board that sits behind the curtain or into the complaints pile. It will be looked at but the ones behind the curtain will not give you a follow up or closure.

Watching your prediction unfold.
This is going to be most entertaining at the least.

Thanks ahead of time S.O.

Damn right! OP The downright trolling on these boards is getting out of hand. The debates just aren't as engaging and the hate on display is multiplying at a tremendous rate. I blame all the new people joining from facebook and bebo and other alternative websites, this influx of new blood is full of aids I'm afraid....

Originally posted by strangleholder1
I blame all the new people joining from facebook and bebo and other alternative websites

There has been no quantifiable increase in new member accounts as a result of promoting ATS content on Facebook and Twitter. While there has been an increase in overall traffic, the rate of new members has remained consistent.

Originally posted by Smokersroom
posted on 26-9-2010 @ 06:26 AM

ATS - What Went Wrong?

I've been a member for over 6 years now, and I've seen a lot of interesting stories come and go.
Me too. It looks like you joined about 2 months before me. ( July 18, 2004)
- Where once we could sustain long, well-reasoned debates, we are now left to sift through pages and pages of grammatically incorrect, poorly punctuated streams of consciousness.
Funny, I can still find some good debates. As for "grammatically incorrect, poorly punctuated streams of consciousness", I remember some of them from years ago, also. Grammar and punctuation do NOT cancel the thought behind the posting. Sometimes those posts are very insightful.-
The content of the site is now more likely to draw laughter than engage me in deep thought.
Admittedly, some of our forums are "lighter" and some are more serious. Perhaps you should be looking at the serious rather than the "sensationalist" ones.
The debates, currently, seem to take the form of partisan squabbling, with a relentless descent toward off topic posts and insults.
In the 6 years we have both been members, this has changed in what way?
I now spend most of my time on ATS scrolling endlessly down a page of fantasy, irrelevance and repetition, You do realize that there are serious and newsworthy forums here, too, don't you? Maybe you ought to check them out sometime, and leave the Unicorn riding Leprechauns who hunt Sasquatches emerging from inter dimensional UFO's to somebody else. Actually, I might like that one.-
The rating and moderation system need to change.... I would suggest that users should be able to clearly flag posts as incoherent, unsupported, knowingly false, out of context etc.
Nope. I strongly disagree. What may be "incoherent, unsupported, knowingly false, out of context etc." to one may be based on information that is rejected or unknown. The Evolution-Creationism debates would be an example of this.
- The site is a mess. At the present time, we are remodeling, so things may be hard to find. This is not a pay site, so the costs of upgrades need to come from someplace, ergo, advertising.
What alternative boards are there, preferably based in the UK, where someone can have a proper, rational and logical discussion with like minded individuals?
You might do a SEARCH on the internet. When and IF you do, you might seek a pay site, as that would probably eliminate most of your concerns. However, I suggest you explore other areas of ATS and stick around. There is something for everyone here.

reply to post by rawiea


Wow! That's weak!
So you think the best thing the mods can do is let the BS fly as far as possible?
Just stay away from those threads?

On the flip side, there is some good stuff in here if you search and are skeptical of every thread.

It does not matter how insane the thread is, we gotta watch it come up over and over.
No one has the nads to clean out the trash.
Here, we the users, have to read through it, try to figure out if the op is trolling, crazy, misinformed or on the money, and post to discredit the OP with a verbal assault at the END, or just click a star on the first page.

Insane system is insane as the content it hosts.

reply to post by Smokersroom



What went wrong...

The same thing that went wrong with a lot of the internet. Too many 13-17 year old children are posting and there is no way to tell who is under a certain age.

I used to play Massive Multi Player online roleplay. It was ruined by the the pubescent kids. I would try and escape this horrible cold modern world to rolelplay a midevil character to only have most others come up to me and say: "Sup dood isn't this kewl" For a while I would try and ignore it and state: "Hail friend what land art thou from to use such a strange language I am but a lowly ranger and have not traveled far" to no avail. These kids stripped the magic of it all and would say: "thats just gay"

Look at the youtube comments or any comments on any site and you get these kids ruining it for any thinking adult.

Originally posted by SLaPPiE
On the flip side, there is some good stuff in here if you search and are skeptical of every thread.

"Speaking of weak."

You believe it would be better to have a staff that is encouraged to make arbitrary decisions on the value of content based on subject matter and perceived veracity?

Really?

Originally posted by LoneGunMan
reply to post by Smokersroom

 

I used to play Massive Multi Player online roleplay. It was ruined by the the pubescent kids. I would try and escape this horrible cold modern world to rolelplay a midevil character to only have most others come up to me and say: "Sup dood isn't this kewl" For a while I would try and ignore it and state: "Hail friend what land art thou from to use such a strange language I am but a lowly ranger and have not traveled far" to no avail. These kids stripped the magic of it all and would say: "thats just gay"

Munkin OOC people will always try to come and infect the proper IC players of any large campaign and/or realm.

Sigh...I feel your pain.

Its like ATS is AD&D now, instead of D&D and certain folks are all angry about it and making Con rolls and saving verses Poison with a -4!!! When in actuality AD&D is far better, wider in content and a step towards a larger audience.

Its no wonder Gygax died with so many people now playing that WotC crap they are peddling in stores today.

I think everyone should just stop and look at the fact that ATS equals AD&D, and both are more awesome then finding a Belt of Giant strength and then rolling it as a natural ST of 21!

YKNOW!?

Man...I love this site.

Critical hit and star for you sir.

Originally posted by Smokersroom
As it has grown we have had to endure an exponential increase in advertising real estate on the site templates.

I just want to re-visit this point with some hard numbers. The actual site-wide average of ad-space to content-space is about 5.2%.


Site home:
Content in 990x3380 -- 3,346,200 square pixels
five ads -- 377,040 square pixels
percentage of pixels as ads -- 11.3%

Board home:
Content in 990x4600 -- 4,554,000 square pixels
five ads -- 386,520 square pixels
percentage of pixels as ads -- 8.5%

Live Headlines page:
Content in 990x1500 -- 1,485,000 square pixels
one ad -- 65,520 square pixels
percentage of pixels as ads -- 4.4%

Forum Index:
Content in 990x3450 -- 3,415,500 square pixels
three ads -- 257,520 square pixels
percentage of pixels as ads -- 7.5%

Thread page - members:
Average height: 16,000 pixels for 20 posts -- 15 million square pixels (on average)
Up to three ads for members: 257,520 square pixels
percentage of pixels as ads -- 1.7%

Thread page - guests:
Average height: 14,000 pixels for 20 posts -- 13.86 million square pixels (on average)
Nine ads on full 20-page view: 809,520 square pixels
percentage of pixels as ads -- 5.8%

Average of the six page types:
Total pixel space of content and ads: 41,660,200
Total pixel space of ads: 2,153,640
Total average pixels space devoted to ads on entire site: 5.2%


Show me any other ad-supported publication or broadcast show with just 5.2% of space or time devoted to advertising.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
What seems to be at place is the often favorable emotional attachment we have to "how things used to be." Years ago, as a new member, the nature of the topics on ATS were fresh and seemed like an endless stream of new ideas on provocative topics. Over time, that initial "freshness" fades and fatigue sets in because it seems as though the same topics are being rehashed -- to some degree that may be true, but I believe it's mostly due to members having learned all they need/want on a given topic.

Too many people

Um...are we to fault ATS for earning a large audience? That somehow seems anti-productive in the sense of running a website based buisness.

Too many silly posts

Some think that threads built to complain about ATS are equally wasteful. But we all have thoughts and nobody is stopping us from hitting that "reply" button.

Too many adds

I don't understand people on this one and never have. Are adds doing something on your high tech computers that they are not ding on my screen? I mean, are they yelling at you or running around on the screen causing chaos? Cus for me they just sit there on the side and leave me alone. Heck, I click em once and a while because I know they are helping pay for this site to operate.

I mean...what is their other option with all the tech they need to keep running, never mind the servers??? Take your money and demand a subscription fee? Charge per post? Per article?

I don't get it...


My point.

In 1991, I had no place to discuss anything on these subjects. Those were dark days in conspiracy where you HAD to buy books from "unknown authors" just to hear "rumors and unverifiable content", or you had to pay ticket price to attend lectures in remote areas of the country where if you were lucky you spent your 50 bucks and walked away feeling "a little informed".

Now we have the internet, and many more people are talking about these subjects these days. MOST newer folks to conspiracy are as clueless as I was when first coming face to face with this material...and now they can jump forward in research faster then I ever could back before the invention of ATS.

ATS can educate a conspiracy theorist in DAYS a way that years could have never enlightened me without this site.

In fact, I have learned more from ATS by interacting with brilliant folks from ALL SIDES of the conspiracy fence then all the years I spent huffing it on foot looking for the info on my own.

ATS sure does have more hooligans these days (and some may include me in that statement)...but for me its the nature of the beast. Have a small get together on your lawn and the night usually goes off without a hitch...throw a 200 man keg party in your back yard, and well...something is gunna get broken, something is gunna get stolen, and you will surly see a fist fight or two.

Big crowds equal big noise...

But, if you want to say ATS has become unusable because of adds, new people and content you dislike...I say that you must be one heck of a lazy man.

ATS HAS AN ENDLESS LIBRARY for the "critical minded conspiracy theorist" at hand...all free...and if you are SMART enough to come looking for information of that caliber- then you should surly be patient and wise enough to know you will have to suffer a few ding bats and dig for the diamonds.

I dunno...yknow what I think? People who are anti-growth of ATS are just sticks in the mud and rather see their website fail as a business just so they can "have it to themselves".

Sorry friend...Conspiracy has gone mainstream and ATS has a large hand at bringing these subjects to the waking public.

It can't be done on a site with no adds, a posting stable of 100 people, and with a door man deciding who is "cool enough for you" to accept.

MM