ATS - What Went Wrong?

Hello all,

I've been a member for over 6 years now, and I've seen a lot of interesting stories come and go. I've seen insight and ignorance, I've been enlightened and I've been hoaxed, but most of all, I've been disenchanted. I have to make some points about the direction of the site, it's content, and it's contributors.

When I joined, there were obviously less users and less content. The site was niche, it was left field, but it was active and it was interesting. The site has grown, which is ostensibly a good thing. However there are a few specific points that need to be made, regarding the deterioration in quality since the floodgates opened.

- The quality of posting is frankly atrocious. Where once we could sustain long, well-reasoned debates, we are now left to sift through pages and pages of grammatically incorrect, poorly punctuated streams of consciousness. Often the premise of the posts are risible, and the content has had no research conducted, no evidence gathered, and no planning or structure.

- The content of the site is now more likely to draw laughter than engage me in deep thought. The content ranges from UFOs that are clearly birds, Obama is actually the Devil (not metaphorically, actually!), right through to people claiming they can see other people's 'aura' in a photograph. It's like some sort of fairytale land, with aliens riding unicorns on the back of rainbows. There is a trend toward the sensationalist, whilst important topics like Operation Northwoods, Iran-Contra, David Kelly and reams of other proven conspiracies get very little study indeed.

- The debates, currently, seem to take the form of partisan squabbling, with a relentless descent toward off topic posts and insults. This is not constructive. Very rarely is someone countered with a salient point. I'm not surprised that the US so warmly embraces two party politics. You guys love a row! These arguments don't usually prove to be too offensive, but the underlying racism and overt anti-islamic and anti-semetic commentary is disturbing.

I now spend most of my time on ATS scrolling endlessly down a page of fantasy, irrelevance and repetition, with no desire to engage. I'm not going to be spending as much time lurking here and contributing here as I used to. The site management are clearly measuring perceived success on the ad revenue and traffic stats & profile. There are numerous things that need to change in order to make their near monopoly a valuable one:

- The rating and moderation system need to change. Whilst it is all well and good having a rating system that only allows positive recognition of contribution (starring or flagging), the vast majority of the dross on this site deserves a massive thumbs down. I know that some of the contributors don't have English as their first language, but terrifyingly enough, some of the most incoherent posts tend to be written by those speaking their mother tongue. I would suggest that users should be able to clearly flag posts as incoherent, unsupported, knowingly false, out of context etc.

- The site is a mess. As it has grown we have had to endure an exponential increase in advertising real estate on the site templates. To a new user, it is almost certainly verging on unusable. I have worked in web marketing and usability for ten years. I'm going to start using ATS as a case study on how not to do it. In addition to the clutter, the advertising is irrelevant, distracting and scammy. With the incredibly powerful geotargeting and profiling available to publishers, why am I still being sold weightloss products, and fake degrees from the US?

So on that note - What alternative boards are there, preferably based in the UK, where someone can have a proper, rational and logical discussion with like minded individuals?

Thanks,
Smokey.

Aw...cheer up.

ATS is the best.

Hugs!

Originally posted by Mr Mask
Aw...cheer up.

ATS is the best.

Hugs!

But seriously...

You what? Dislike the new look and think people are dumb and/or bad spellers?

Hey...you work in marketing or some jazz, yeah? And you are saying what exactly?

ATS has grown in visibility, membership and content of various sorts (most you dislike)?

Lol...sir, you are booing a win for the website...you want the site to be a bankrupt hole in the wall rat-club with about 30 people talking only about what you like? Man...I hope you don't sell that kind of design to your clients.

I dunno...I like the new look and ignore most of the hooligans I can't stand.

There always HAS been a diamond vault of knowledge here...and there always will be.

Are you above searching through those you disapprove of? Or must you have a sandbox catered to your personal desires?

Free site...free info...free friends...free minds...

And you are complaining about what? Cosmetics? Popularity? Persona types?

Seems, I dunno, too much...not trying to be rude or anything...just think you maybe need to rethink your stance or just take a break from ATS...

You ask where another site like ATS stands, with real subjects and logical minds getting to the bottom of it all, well THIS is it...

Just wish you felt the same way...

I see what you're saying, but a lot of it comes down to opinion. I know you're a professional in web design and all, but to most here the layout is fine, its functional, it lets us get from A to B without too much hassle. In the end, that's all that really matters. How would you have the site structure its advertising? What's so bad about it? How would you change it?

There's a good reason why there's no negative rating system, it would allow for 'forum gangs' to conduct operations in order to sway opinion. It'll only serve to encourage a mob mentality and will only further degrade internal relations within the site. I think the site is fine and all this complaining without actually offering a constructive and thought out alternative really serves no purpose.

reply to post by Smokersroom

Whilst it is all well and good having a rating system that only allows positive recognition of contribution (starring or flagging), the vast majority of the dross on this site deserves a massive thumbs down.

That would actually be one of the greatest ideas since man invented the wheel, although it's obviously not an original idea. It would allow us to cut past the crap in record time though. I like the idea.

As it has grown we have had to endure an exponential increase in advertising real estate on the site templates. To a new user, it is almost certainly verging on unusable.

I completely agree on this also. I haven't even been here long but I have witnessed a dramatic increase in adverts. I mean, I have nothing against advertisement, but...*insert rant here*...

Anyway, once you can get past those things I suppose ATS is still the "top conspiracy website"...

reply to post by serbsta

I know you're a professional in web design and all, but to most here the layout is fine, its functional, it lets us get from A to B without too much hassle.

I'm also a web developer with a few years experience so I can speak with some knowledge on this topic. First of all, ATS has pop-up advertisements. That's an extremely big no. Second of all, there is a limit to how much advertisement you should have, especially if your website is an informational/news type debate forum, and based on member generated content. First on the list should be the quality and presentation of the content, not "ad revenue and traffic stats", because that should be inherently taken care of by the first priority. Balance is key, you want to make a good impression for people wanting a "serious" conspiracy website. I've heard of many people coming to this website and leaving because they thought it looked over-commercialized.

There's a good reason why there's no negative rating system, it would allow for 'forum gangs' to conduct operations in order to sway opinion. It'll only serve to encourage a mob mentality and will only further degrade internal relations within the site.

The current rating system can easily achieve all those things. Perhaps an opposite rating option could help balance it out.

ATS is a website.

People from all over the world are free to come here and discuss what they like. Some members don't speak English as a first language, some members have difficulties with spellings and grammar, does that mean they shouldn't be allowed to post here?

ATS is standing up for freedom of speech and expression, it's what this website is about, somewhere people can dicuss controversial issues without being laughed at, some people don't understand that point, and only come here to laugh at people.

Of course your going to get rubbish, but there still are lots of gems in the rubble.

Originally posted by Smokersroom

What alternative boards are there

Well, I know of one other. It models itself shamelessly on ATS. It has far fewer members than ATS so it is much less active. The beauty of ATS is surely that there's always something new to read every time you refresh the page and there's always enough interesting stuff being posted to compensate for all the dross.

Bigger site over the past 6 years = more diverse bunches of people show up.

It kinda goes in waves I've noticed.
It's almost like someone finds this place and then tells all his/her like-minded friends about it.
Then they raid it for a while .. get bored and leave ... or get banned.

i have no formal education, i try as best as i can to spell and punctuate my posts correctly and participate as best i can in the discusions. i just found this forum and jumped in head first out of sheer joy. i can understand your dismay at the changes here, change is difficult, i ask you to please tolerate me and understand my quest to learn and find opened minded people i can learn from. thank you for your post.

reply to post by Smokersroom

Rectifying rhetoric

Poorly posted posts propel plenty of people to ponder a place to proclaim it as poo poo.
Bestowing a big black BS button to basically brand the blockhead.
Eventually even and essentially end their erosive environmental engineering's.
Rating the rhetoric to relay a readers resolve.

This is great.
Lets all get intimidated by some British snob,
and overlook the fact that all the people who have been finding each other
over the past six years have _actually_ been looking
for decades, but somehow... magically...
after Google is done locking up
all search and YouTube
Now there is a flood
of conspiracy
theorist.

I submit to mr stuffy leather chair in the OP
that he is mourning for a time when everyone in America
was intentionally blocked from finding each other.
And now that he sees us not only interacting with real people,
and trying to mature them, he's decided that the barbarians have overrun the gate,
drops us in the bin, and turns his back on us on the way out the door.

If this is the nature of your character and the height of your awareness
maybe it's better if you _do_ leave.


David Grouchy

One of the frustrating qualities of our species is that we are highly resistant to change. We fight it, rebel against it, rebuke it, and writhe in reactive disgust when it overtakes us.

But...

Once those initial spasms of revulsion pass we often find that change is progress, and progress is good.

~Heff

What I have found is that the men and women behind the curtain like to stay behind the curtain unless a thread like this comes along. Then they will project them selves and declare in some boooming lines of text, something to this effect: please direct all complaints to the board that sits behind the curtain or into the complaints pile. It will be looked at but the ones behind the curtain will not give you a follow up or closure.

IMO this started after 911 as ATS became mainstream, problem is, flying monkeys dooo their business in the mainstream. Then there are those who will post a funny picture and very little more.

I think the Wizard should make a new ATS much like the old ATS of 1997 (or whenever it began) or so and select a bunch (500-800) of ATS members that like the old ATS better use that, keep it off search engines and even make some members into mods err wizards. Then start allowing some outside non ATS members to join and then lock it off to more members when trouble starts. Just to truly see, once and for all if the old ATS was better.

reply to post by Smokersroom
From one Brit to another...how do? .

What went wrong?

Perhaps your perception of the place has changed? Great threads have always been fewer compared to the fillers and BS ones. The % of poor posts has likely remained the same. You can check a lot of them out using the www.abovetopsecret.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink">wayback machine...this is ATS in the www.abovetopsecret.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink">week you joined. I know our perceptions change through familiarity as months pass.

I'd say stick around and see if your mood changes. Maybe write the thread you'd like to read? One thing I noticed in your profile is how independent you are. In 6 years, you've added one friend and one foe. A lot members are socialising behind the scenes with u2us and adding friends or posting on profiles. You could also become a bigger contributor? 10 posts a year isn't going to raise any standards in a hurry.

As for other forums, I haven't found many that suit me. Maybe it's the English tastes? The Paracast is a good blend of skeptics, believers, debunkers and armchair snipers. I've been reminded today how interesting and informed the Reality Uncovered forums can be. Unexplained Mysteries run a great forum too. Oh yeah, Urban75 is a good forum too, I've been a member for years and years. Isohunt also!

I noticed it as well, but I have chalked it up as the to more people becoming aware. Yes we had a small group back in 2004 (I lurked backed then) But the old school people are the people that have been aware longer of the many things going on. Now the world is becoming more aware of the issues that we brought up back then and they are trying to make sense of it, yes the new people have questions! Back in the day we all agreed with each other to some extent, we could dig deeper and have in depth discussions without having people derail threads with endless pages of debate.

Now we have to have thorough threads explaining everything with supporting evidence which makes us more reputable.

-Kdial1

reply to post by Smokersroom


I hear ya....

The constant and ever increasing demand to wring every last cent out of ATS since it became commercial with it's advertising drive has changed it forever. The adverts here have become a pain for many and have even been the seed for many of the complaints threads and the advetising of ATS on other sites has brought in many members who contribute little but stupidity or rudeness and ranting. While I understand the site must now pay higher wages than it used to and has higher running costs, creating more content and changing the site to cover them and enrol new members is an endless process and just fuels the fire.

Get used to it I say, I think ATS will always be changing in future.

It's not about conspiracies so much as revenue now, and for that reason I can rarely find anything but humour when I visit. Some of ATS has evolved into a joke....or did I evolve to finally get the punchline.

I'll still visit and will contribute when I can to give a metaphorical slap to some of the ignorant, but I will be skimming above the treetops more than the wandering down particular paths that I used to do, lighting candles along the way.

More than anything, I miss some of the fine members who planted quality seeds with their threads and who have now departed for pastures new since the takeover and makeover a few years back.

cheers..nerb

This is one of those useless threads that are as boring as watching paint dry.

Maybe those that don't like it on this site should look elsewhere for their entertainment.

This is the best site I've found and I've been on forums since the first ones came available.

Or maybe the owners could start charging for allowing us the site and freedom to discuss most anything we wish to discuss. The advertisements have improved and don't bother me in the least. It pays the bills so I can annoy people with my ignorance.

Please be gentle and tolerant of those of us that don't spew elaborate and boring posts.

The most important idea in writing is to get your point across to others in a way that the majority can understand.

We ignorant people who can't spell properly or use punctuation properly are seeking answers too.

And don't you know how to sift the good from the bad and let it go?

This topic is very old and stale. Stop complaining and offer assistance to someone that could use help in composition and other grammatical problems.

Be part of the solution to your problem.

Are you sure about the long debate issue?
Looking through your thread history the longest thread you have started was in 2009 with 79 replies and most of those from 2004 - 2005 are in the single digits

As for subject matter I don't see any qualitative difference in the threads you were posting in around 2005 then now, How is a thread titled "Aliens downed Tunguska meteorite to save Earth" with a single article listed as the source or "All UFOs to be summoned! Why Area-51? (from ATSNN)" any different to whats on the front page at the moment?

Originally posted by dizziedame

Maybe those that don't like it on this site should look elsewhere for their entertainment.

Maybe you ought to put the keyboard down and let the man complain.
He has been here 6 years, which IMO gives him great insight into this site.
So you can listen to what he has to say instead of telling him to leave the site.
You ever hear of constructive criticism?
Behold...honesty follows...

I am have lost much respect for the mods, as no matter what you ask them about or to do, they will ignore anything except a T&C violation.

For example:
What good are the points without the store? asked many times but no answer...thanks for taking 1000 points though mods! That makes me want to give you a big hug.
Where is the store?
Why no negative stars?

I gotta laugh at yesterdays little fiasco with the goth chick avatar! Site had it coming.
Keep it up mods, and I'm sure this kind of thing will happen so often you won't know what to do.

Perhaps one day you will open up an ear to the community you created.

For example 500 posts to chat means we don't want to hear from any site newbs.
Kind of a prejudiced against new people huh?

This site is alright, but so far from perfect, fair or sensible.
This site is full of human weakness, starting at the top.
Just look at the mental stability of the community here and realize who created this club for whack jobs.