Racism of the US Justice System...

Originally posted by Thors Hammer
1) So you lose the debate on the issue of 'the prison system is racist' as I gave you the information that proves this is just a Marxist lie, and so you then move to a new debate on the issue of 'Institutional Racism'.

Thanks for confirming you lost that debate.

I didn't change anything. I posted about institutional racism in my fist reply.

2) I love the idea of the US being institutionally racist with a BLACK PRESIDENT in the Whitehouse.

Oh yeah the US is soooo institutionally racist with its black president, its endless state funded affirmative action programmes, positive discrimination schemes and other 'freebies' for blacks and ethnic minorities.

The US is institutionally racist, but against just one group that being WHITES.

I disagree. I look forward to you backing up this claim, though!

3)
The fact that there are millions of poor, unemployed, impoverished, homeless white Americans proves the lie of white privilege is just that - a lie.

Poor or homeless white people don't mean black people aren't discriminated against...

Black Privilege exists in the form of institutional racism against whites, who are denied equal opportunities and the right to live in a meritocracy due to political correctness.

We don't live in a meritocracy, we never have... and it's impossible in a capitalistic system.

Lets hope you go to prison and experience such treatment then.

Been to prison. Nothing happened to me. Really wasn't that big of a deal.

Then I am sure you will dump the pathetic political posturing and become a human being again.

Yeah, wishing rape on another human being really shows how you're all about equality and against injustice.

Rape does that to teenage muppets that think posturing as an anti-white political extremist is 'cool' or trendy.

Grow up you moron.

I take this position because of my convictions. You are new here so I'll fill you in, I'm a full grown disabled vet. Can we stick to the issue here instead of just name calling now?

Originally posted by Muckster
reply to post by RestingInPieces

 

I'm sorry... but was that reply sarcasm??

I hope so...

No, I was being serious: Instead of holding up a 7-11 when they get out of jail, they should steal a belt.

1) They'd be less likely to get caught
2) They'd have a way for their pants to stay up.

They might as well steal a belt because they obviously aren't getting good jobs or doing any good for the community. The least they could do is wear their pants right.

1) So you lose the debate on the issue of 'the prison system is racist' as I gave you the information that proves this is just a Marxist lie, and so you then move to a new debate on the issue of 'Institutional Racism'.

Thanks for confirming you lost that debate.


I didn't change anything. I posted about institutional racism in my fist reply.


== You lost the debate, so you changed the topic.



2) I love the idea of the US being institutionally racist with a BLACK PRESIDENT in the Whitehouse.

Oh yeah the US is soooo institutionally racist with its black president, its endless state funded affirmative action programmes, positive discrimination schemes and other 'freebies' for blacks and ethnic minorities.

The US is institutionally racist, but against just one group that being WHITES.


I disagree. I look forward to you backing up this claim, though!


= I never made the statement that the US is institutionally racist against blacks, you did.

I responded that the real institutional racism is against whites due to political correctness subverting equal opportunities and imposing affirmative action and positive discrimination programmes that actively discrminate against whites - which you know is true.

The real Institutional Racism is practised by the US state against all white citizens.



3)
The fact that there are millions of poor, unemployed, impoverished, homeless white Americans proves the lie of white privilege is just that - a lie.


Poor or homeless white people don't mean black people aren't discriminated against...

=== and the fact of there being poor or homeless black people doesnt mean white people are racially discriminating against them does it !!!!!!!!!!!!




Black Privilege exists in the form of institutional racism against whites, who are denied equal opportunities and the right to live in a meritocracy due to political correctness.


We don't live in a meritocracy, we never have... and it's impossible in a capitalistic system.


== There are millions of black capitalists who run there own businesses, working black people who take care of their own families by running their own businesses and who assist the black community by owning their own businesses, so are they are all racists as well ?




Lets hope you go to prison and experience such treatment then.


Been to prison. Nothing happened to me. Really wasn't that big of a deal.



==

Are you white ?

Did you rape any white people ?

Did you rape any black people ?


Then I am sure you will dump the pathetic political posturing and become a human being again.


Yeah, wishing rape on another human being really shows how you're all about equality.


== Yeah, I want you to feel what the victims of rape feel as that way you can become a human being again rather than a twat who speaks a load of twaddle about 'anarcho-communism' .



Rape does that to teenage muppets that think posturing as an anti-white political extremist is 'cool' or trendy.

Grow up you moron.


I take this position because of my convictions. You are new here so I'll fill you in, I'm a full grown disabled vet. Can we stick to the issue here instead of just name calling now?


== A disabled vet - what do you mean you, that used to treat sick animals but dont now ?

The fact you can say you dont care about white people being raped in prison suggests your disability is a mental illness - correct ?

It's sad that these types of arguments are even happening.

There is some racism involved in the justice system as in all systems. It will always exist as long as there is "race" but the situation isn't hopeless. It just looks that way because that's what the establishment wants it to look like.

The cries of racism are not all wrong but the fact is that in the past when blacks had less freedom, support from the government, education and job opportunity, they also had a much lower crime rate. Racism cant account for the number of blacks in prison. It's not even close. Young black males are simply commiting a lot of our countries violent crime.The black community used to have a handle on their youth and their way of life was much more family oriented. There were ideals about how to live your life that have all bit disappeared today.

The changes in the sixties that brought civil rights to the forefront were a good thing and they have done their job. The problem is that they were used as a political tool by the parties (primarily the Democrats) and all of the good changes brought about by the civil rights movement were eclipsed by a new and intentional divide of the American people by politics, the media and special interest.

Politicians and special interest do not want these problems fixed. They need high level of hatred between whites and blacks to keep us divided so that they can retain control. When we spend our time pointing our fingers and screaming "racist" the powers that be rub their hands together and chuckle.

The only solution at this point to the race issue is for the black community to step up and take control of their destiny. White people cant do it. Taxpayers can't do it. The government can't do it. Young black men definitely won't be able to do it from behind bars. They will have to start from scratch and work together as communities to do the right thing instead of letting popular culture and political agendas control their destinies.

A good book for whites and blacks to read would be this one-
Unfounded Loyalty: An In-Depth Look Into The Love Affair Between Blacks and Democrats by Wayne Perryman

It shows a side to the relationship of blacks with politics that is pretty enlightening.

When whites and blacks realize that the enemy is politics and not race, then we will have a chance to straighten things out.

I'd like to see the black and white citizens of the US stand side by side and give our political system a big middle finger.

Great post.

Originally posted by Thors Hammer
== You lost the debate, so you changed the topic.

I had already stated I believed the issue was due to institutional racism before you arrived. So, again, I didn't change anything.

I responded that the real institutional racism is against whites due to political correctness subverting equal opportunities and imposing affirmative action and positive discrimination programmes that actively discrminate against whites - which you know is true.

The real Institutional Racism is practised by the US state against all white citizens.

I'm still waiting for you to back this up since it has already been shown that white people aren't losing employment opportunities due to affirmative action.

=== and the fact of there being poor or homeless black people doesnt mean white people are racially discriminating against them does it !!!!!!!!!!!!

I never said it did.

== There are millions of black capitalists who run there own businesses, working black people who take care of their own families by running their own businesses and who assist the black community by owning their own businesses, so are they are all racists as well ?

You tell me. I don't think owning a business makes someone a racist....

Are you white ?

Did you rape any white people ?

Did you rape any black people ?

Yes, no, and no. I also didn't see or hear about anyone getting raped while I was in.

== Yeah, I want you to feel what the victims of rape feel as that way you can become a human being again rather than a twat who speaks a load of twaddle about 'anarcho-communism' .

So, dehumanized and a twat. My point still stands.

== A disabled vet - what do you mean you, that used to treat sick animals but dont now ?

The fact you can say you dont care about white people being raped in prison suggests your disability is a mental illness - correct ?

I mean, I was in the United States Armed Forces, served for 5 1/2 years, got hurt badly, and was medically separated from the service.

I do care about rape and the nature of my disability is none of your business.

I had already stated I believed the issue was due to institutional racism before you arrived. So, again, I didn't change anything.

++++++++ You changed the debate we were having.



I responded that the real institutional racism is against whites due to political correctness subverting equal opportunities and imposing affirmative action and positive discrimination programmes that actively discrminate against whites - which you know is true.

The real Institutional Racism is practised by the US state against all white citizens.


I'm still waiting for you to back this up since it has already been shown that white people aren't losing employment opportunities due to affirmative action.


+++++ but black people are taking them due to affirmative action arent they !


=== and the fact of there being poor or homeless black people doesnt mean white people are racially discriminating against them does it !!!!!!!!!!!!


I never said it did.

== There are millions of black capitalists who run there own businesses, working black people who take care of their own families by running their own businesses and who assist the black community by owning their own businesses, so are they are all racists as well ?


You tell me. I don't think owning a business makes someone a racist....


+++++ but owning a business undermines a meritocracy ?



Are you white ?

Did you rape any white people ?

Did you rape any black people ?


Yes, no, and no. I also didn't see or hear about anyone getting raped while I was in.


++++ was it a federal prison ?



== Yeah, I want you to feel what the victims of rape feel as that way you can become a human being again rather than a twat who speaks a load of twaddle about 'anarcho-communism' .


So, dehumanized and a twat. My point still stands.


+++++ WHAT CAN IS SAY - MALE RAPE MAKES ME ANGRY.


== A disabled vet - what do you mean you, that used to treat sick animals but dont now ?

The fact you can say you dont care about white people being raped in prison suggests your disability is a mental illness - correct ?



I mean, I was in the United States Armed Forces, served for 5 1/2 years, got hurt badly, and was medically separated from the service.

I do care about rape and the nature of my disability is none of your business.


+++ Good I am glad you care about male rape, as many people on this site may have suffered such abuse as children, and if you dont want to talk about your disability then why mention it ?

Originally posted by Thors Hammer
but black people are taking them due to affirmative action arent they!

So your proof that racism only exists is in the instance discrimination against whites is that black people are taking the white man's jobs?

but owning a business undermines a meritocracy ?

No, I don't think the sole act of owning a business undermines a meritocracy. I think the way capitalism operates undermines a meritocracy. But, even if owning a business did, it has nothing to do with the OP. So, I won't be going any deeper into this unless you can tie it to racism.

was it a federal prison ?

Yes.

WHAT CAN IS SAY - MALE RAPE MAKES ME ANGRY.

That doesn't excuse your behavior. It doesn't excuse angry 2 year olds and surely not people old enough to know how to post on internet forums.

Good I am glad you care about male rape, as many people on this site may have suffered such abuse as children, and if you dont want to talk about your disability then why mention it ?

You thought I was a teenager. To show you otherwise I referred to my vet status. So, now we can drop all of this and get back to the issue at hand. I'm waiting for you to back up your claims.

Oh for pity's sake. I can't help but wonder what motivated this thread.

These are KIDS doing this. It is considered stylish. It's a reflection of hip-hop.

I furthermore take issue with the insinuation that AA's are incarcerated because of their skin color.
If they are in jail it's for the same reason as everyone else there. They've committed a crime.

Get real.

Originally posted by Muckster
To say that African Americans wear their pants low due to prisoners not being given back their belts is a little inaccurate and a slightly naive. It’s almost as if you are suggesting that all those with low belts are ex cons who have never been able to attain another belt since their release from prison.

I asked a friend some years back why black kids wore their pants like that because to me it is incredibly uncomfortable to walk around like that. The answer I got was this.

'That is how you gotta be in the yard. When you get back to the hood, you get a new level of respect. You did your time, you were not fooling around with nobody about anything. It became a fad. You see people getting respect for having their pants around their knees and before long all the little brothers are doing it too.'

Seems the OP might at least be on the right track here. As far as anyone has been able to tell me, it is a signal that you have been in prison and now you are hard whether they have actually ever even been arrested or not.

not to mention the majority of Blue-collar criminals are still White People

EDIT:
Redundant. Others have already taken care of it. No point repeating what's already been said.

tell you what OP, lets talk about the blame game. The blame game is where a person or group always tries to find a reson for shortcomings other than taking personal responsiblilty. It happenes all over and not just with one race. But it is what is happening with the group in your discussion. Your cherry picked statistics sound real nice for your argument. But you didn't mention wether the people who are put in jail are guilty or innocent. If they are guilty, they they did some law breaking. I know how I was broght up. I know how everyone I knew was broght up. We were taught to respect others and their property. Now granted, not all of us followed all the rules and some did turn to crime. But most did not.

Now you are saying that the system is out to get the black man. With this type of attitude, we might as well be as devided before Rosa Parks and Dr. King tried to unite us all. It's very sad that Dr. King gave his life for a cause and the very people he was trying to help have no earthly idea what his goals were. They don't know his message. They don't know why Rosa Parks was willing to risk her life for equality. They don't want equality anymore, they want superiority. You don't get that by whining, you get that by earing respect. Not street resect, real respect. Respect from your peers.

I would like nothing more than to eliminate the racial bariers that exist so that a person can be judged on the content of their character instead of the color of their skin. I think that both sides of this devide are missing out on a lot of valuable learning we could be doing from each other. Once you have an oportunity to have the blinders removed and learn from another culture, you can see the trees and the forest. I hope you can see my point and not take it as an attack.

www.youtube.com...


pants on the ground.

don't xactly answer the op.


but hey.

pretty relevant and from a real black person. err.. african american.


btw, if you listen to the words, it seems like a choice.

reply to post by jambatrumpet


Well we seemed to have moved from fashion to male sexuality. All that I can say is that this vile crime firmly shows that men rape to manifest power. Aparently this was also the way in the mediteranean around Roman and Greek ascendancy.

Anyway back to the racial hatred. todays topic is black men!

reply to post by badgerprints


Thanks for your sober post. It kind of goes against the braying ignorance that is shaming ATS. My take on the issue is the co-option of black leadership into the US party political system. What happened was a whole tier of independent black leadership allowed themselves to be taken up into the party political agenda. The result is obvious look at the current set of buffoons masquerading as leaders.. If Sharpton isn't some kind of anti minstrel gurning idiot then he is the closest thing to it!

Originally posted by jambatrumpet
A study by the Justice Policy Institute shows that, although blacks and whites possess and sell illegal drugs at about the same rate, blacks are ten times as likely to be sent to jail on drug charges (Justice Policy Institute, Reuters).

While many claim that the long tradition of racism in the united states ended with the Civil Rights Movement
of the 1960s, the legacies of slavery and segregation continue to affect u.s. society on all levels. Today, African-
Americans are disproportionately imprisoned by racist drug laws, denied access to the economic and educational benefits enjoyed by Anglo-Americans, and robbed of their civil rights and human dignity by a pervasive white supremacy that lurks just beneath the surface of our so-called democracy.

This country’s criminal justice system has not escaped the influence of, and is frequently the direct tool for, this racism.
Our criminal injustice system creates a situation in which African-American men have greater than a 1 in 4 chance of going to prison (compared to 1 in 23 for a white man) and in which the violence and horror of lynching have been transformed and institutionalized into a new form: the racist death penalty.
(Lifetime Likelihood of Going to State or Federal Prison. Bureau of Justice Statistics, 1997.)

African-Americans represent:
• 12.7% of the US population
• 15% of US drug users
(72% of all users are white)
• 36.8% of those arrested for a
drug abuse violation
• 48.2% of American adults in State
or Federal prisons and local jails
• 42.5% of prisoners under
sentence of death

Why does America’s criminal “justice” system incarcerate such a disproportionate number of African-Americans?

edit on 25-9-2010 by jambatrumpet because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-9-2010 by jambatrumpet because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-9-2010 by jambatrumpet because: (no reason given)

MOD EDIT: Inappropriate joke removed

edit on Sat Sep 25 2010 by DontTreadOnMe because: The END of Hate Speech, subtle or otherwise, on ATS

affirmative action is racism, i have a family member who was equally skilled as the black man and yet the black man made it because he was black, not only that but they might also be going to prison more for more hardcore drugs and larger quanties of it, also might have something to do with the large gang acivity in the black community.Not only that but isnt it racist for black panthers to stand at a voting poll with a billyclub? Also shouldnt their be a white history month or shouldnt their be white only clubs in highschool and college? huh?

I didn´t read all of the replys so i don´t know if this was posted before...

For the subject about wearing the pants so deep...

This has really nothing to do with the in the OP mentioned theory!
Really, this movement came into life between the sixties and seventies mainly started in the southern bronx but also in other ghetto regions in US at this time short before and during the early hip hop movement.

We all know that the people there had not much money, but often more than one children. As the people couldn´t buy new clothes, the clothes from the older ones where passed down to the younger ones.
Shurely many of the trousers didn´t fit as they where too big...
Also much of the first baggy - trademarks where former workers outfits, like, for example ...DICKIES or Carhart (spelling?). They where often worn by portworkers, like in new york.
During the young hip hop movement it became a cool thing to wear this tipe of pants.
And by the time it became an own philosophy to wear baggys.
It represented a laid-back and lofty attitude that also represents a resistance against the common snob outfit...

Believe me, i am a hopper, rapper and artist myself have many friends from NY and even give workshops about HipHopHistory (and am about to write a book about it!).
It has really nothing to do with your no-belts issue...
But that reminds me of another story...
The guys from Run DMC always have worn no shoelaces as a kind of tribute to their imprisoned homeys.
This style went over the world and even todaysometimes you see hoppers (and even in other genres) with this style...


Oh and bythe way i am also wearing baggys but not down at my knees aslike in the 90s... It is really comfortable and airy... i love it! And could never wear those b@ll-squeezing jeans, oh no!

Peace

Jim

Who knows? Why do any number of black athletes, with the world by the tail, sign multi-million dollar contracts, and yet still like living the 'thug life', getting busted for weapons, drugs, assault what have you?

Maybe many of them simply like living the 'gangsta' lifestyle....

if they put everyone in jail for the same offenses, there wouldn't be enough jails to house them all. i guess unofficially there is a policy in various police departments that if faced with a situation of a college kid with 3 grams of weed and a gangbanger in the ghetto with 3 grams of weed, the gangbanger would be charged. most likely the judge would sentence the gangbanger to jailtime and give the college kids a walk. there a probably more drugs circulating in a college campus than 3 blocks of the worst gang neighborhood in america. to be honest gangsta rap and typical hollywood movies aren't doing black people in america any favors, it isn't a question of wrong or right it's just reality.