Dieting and Exercise Aren't Effective Fat Loss Tools

Originally posted by Thunder heart woman

Originally posted by shiman
reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd

 

I totally agree with you. The doctors should be saying "watch what you eat. Eat a full and well rounded diet avoiding junk foods" instead of "eat less food, don't eat fats, eat less calories blah blah". And of course exercise is a given.

I was reading something the other day about how in the late 80's through the 90's, it was taught in medical school to stop approaching or scolding patients about their weights, because it could create tension between doctor and patient, and, create emotional distress further causing possible eating disorders. My dad remembers when he was growing up how you could not go to the doctor overweight without the doctor saying "hey, you're fat. you need to drop that weight".

It seems in the past couple of years that this mentality of not bringing up weight issues is starting to fade away. And I do think it's time. Doctors, of all people should tell their obese patients that something must be done and continue to encourage the means to change. But it's the approach, the doctor must work on, when dealing with their patients. I think that a doctor to not say anything at all is irresponsible. I know that most fat acceptance groups would disagree with my line of thinking.

Problem is only smart doctors will tell you that healthy eating and excersize will help you. Lots of docs will give you pills that do god knows what.

Yes, being fat is a problem, but when you're so drugged up that you can't tell the difference, then it doesn't help anybody.

reply to post by shiman


In my talks with doctors, I've been told that they initially suggest trying to lose weight "x" pounds by the next visit. If the patient fails to meet the goal weight then they are placed on prescriptions.

reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd

do those very same doctors suggest over comumption of fat laden meat products and a sedentary lifestyle? clearly the best way to maintain a healthy body wieght right?
afterall, dieting and excersize wont help anyone lose wieght.

reply to post by Ong Bak


When you're ready to stop trolling and and acting like a child I'll respond to your posts. Until then, you're bating and following me around from thread to thread with intention to derail and deflect will be ignored. Thanks.

Originally posted by DevolutionEvolvd
reply to post by Ong Bak

 

When you're ready to stop trolling and and acting like a child I'll respond to your posts. Until then, you're bating and following me around from thread to thread with intention to derail and deflect will be ignored. Thanks.

what? you responded to this last one im confused. if i was trolling you would ahve ignoried it using your logic.
and im not trolling, im attempting to deny ignorance by shining light on the many flaws in your circular logic.
if you do not with to futher communicate with me via ATS thats fine, but you crossed the line with me months ago, i dont forget.
you will continue to have your threads invaded with my superior debating skills, i cannot make you do anything. your actions and words are yours and yours alone, dont make it look like i have anything to do with your mistakes.
thanks.

Hi People

Polite reminder to keep it focussed on the post and NOT the poster.


Cheers.

reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd


Me thinks you just like to argue! No worries. As they say, whatever you believe, you'll be able to prove with enough research. You're picking apart my posts where I've generalized statements or used less-than-clear words to convey my point, and as I stated earlier, I'm not a doctor, nor am I walking encyclopedia, so I WILL miss the target from time to time with what I'm trying to say, and the details a critic might be looking for. I feel like you're arguing more with how I'm pointing, rather than what I'm pointing at, but it's all good! I don't want to sit and go back and forth about "well, what I meant was.....", or "what I said, was....". It really serves no purpose, as you have your mind made and so do I. No harm done. Just for quick clarification though...I HAVE cut out individual food groups to see how I would feel. Meat was one of the biggest ones that I felt a noticeable difference with, almost instantly...within 24 hours. So again, I suppose it's all up to the person, and I know that how I felt was how I wanted to feel for the rest of my life. If cutting out meat did that, then so be it. For the record, I like meat...I like bacon and a good steak. So, I'm not a hard core vegetarian by any stretch of the imagination! And also for the record....I keep quitting it. Meaning, I keep going back to it out of weakness, and I keep revisiting the crappy health issues every time I do.

I do agree with you that too many people today take vital health information, and corner the market on it as if they invented it. It gives the information a bad name. To be fair, I've only bought 3 books by Dr. Young, (as well as many others). I've not bought any of the other stuff he "recommends". What a waste of money! But it doesn't take a brain surgeon to pick out the nuggets of wisdom without all the fluff attached, and that's what I've carried with me.

Originally posted by Gseven
reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd

 

Me thinks you just like to argue!

No worries. As they say, whatever you believe, you'll be able to prove with enough research. You're picking apart my posts where I've generalized statements or used less-than-clear words to convey my point, and as I stated earlier, I'm not a doctor, nor am I walking encyclopedia, so I WILL miss the target from time to time with what I'm trying to say, and the details a critic might be looking for. I feel like you're arguing more with how I'm pointing, rather than what I'm pointing at, but it's all good! I don't want to sit and go back and forth about "well, what I meant was.....", or "what I said, was....". It really serves no purpose, as you have your mind made and so do I.

The data has made up my mind. So, if the data begins to point in a different direction I will certainly follow it accordingly.

It's not a simple..."I made up my mind" which has connotations of subjectivism.

This isn't an argument, it's a discussion. Do you sum up disagreements and ensuing discussions as arguments? I mean, there's no way I'm going to let you come into my thread and make statements such as:

He is a well educated Doctor with thousands upon thousands of patients and subscribers to his methods with testimonials that have done far more to carry this beyond a mere hypothesis.

Anecdotes are NOT anecdotes. And I don't think I need to bring up the other doctors who've treated more patients with better success on using other methods, specifically diets with high animal product intake.

....and such as:

....I just passed on what I know and believe based on my own experiences.

Now...THAT is the truth. This is almost entirely based on your own experiences. It's certainly not proof. This thread is based on scientific evidence...not anecdotes.

...and such as:

Most medically educated people who go off the main path DO get harassed and hunted down ruthlessly if they aren't following the rules dictated by the American Medical Association, or whomever calls the shots.

...and such as:

Our bodies were never designed to digest meat, and that is evident by just comparing our digestive tracts to those in the animal kingdom.

...and

My opinions are not based solely on his work, as I have read and compiled numerous articles and documentation that clearly outlines the adverse effects that animal proteins have on the human body.

There are numerous "real" doctors in the medical field who have clearly made the connection between cancers/disease and animal proteins.



...and

So all the documented evidence in the world doesn't matter to me

See...that's the problem. Confirmation bias. I can find mounds and mounds of "evidence" to support anything on the internet. Researchers do it all the time. Almost any study can be interpreted and twisted, and even designed, to support both sides of a given hypothesis. Cherry picking is bad for your health.

You're not just making simple mistakes or being "less than clear" on your points. The quoted sentences above are strongly indicting and there is no reason to just let them stand with rebuttall.

Originally posted by shiman

Originally posted by Thunder heart woman

Originally posted by shiman
reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd

 

I totally agree with you. The doctors should be saying "watch what you eat. Eat a full and well rounded diet avoiding junk foods" instead of "eat less food, don't eat fats, eat less calories blah blah". And of course exercise is a given.

I was reading something the other day about how in the late 80's through the 90's, it was taught in medical school to stop approaching or scolding patients about their weights, because it could create tension between doctor and patient, and, create emotional distress further causing possible eating disorders. My dad remembers when he was growing up how you could not go to the doctor overweight without the doctor saying "hey, you're fat. you need to drop that weight".

It seems in the past couple of years that this mentality of not bringing up weight issues is starting to fade away. And I do think it's time. Doctors, of all people should tell their obese patients that something must be done and continue to encourage the means to change. But it's the approach, the doctor must work on, when dealing with their patients. I think that a doctor to not say anything at all is irresponsible. I know that most fat acceptance groups would disagree with my line of thinking.

Problem is only smart doctors will tell you that healthy eating and excersize will help you. Lots of docs will give you pills that do god knows what.

Yes, being fat is a problem, but when you're so drugged up that you can't tell the difference, then it doesn't help anybody.

it helps tptb control the population.

One day I'm going to live a healthy lifestyle.

I'm going to eat all the right things, and nothing else. I'll brush and floss after every meal.
I'm going to exercise just the way I should, and stretch first, and wear the right shoes for the job, and the right clothes.
I'm going to make sure my house is spotless, and there are no firehazards in my home. I'll make sure there is not a spot of trash in my yard, and it is kept appropriately cut.
I'll be the right religion and the right size, and shape, and I'll be educated, and be a model employee. I won't smoke or drink, or burp ever again.
I'll keep my hair brushed and my car clean and change my sheets every couple of days. It won't be a problem, because my laundry will all be caught up.
I'll go to the doctor for my checkups and the dentist once a year.

One day I'll be perfect. Not for me, because I like me fine the way I am. I'll do it all for the strangers that walk down the street that see me. I owe them perfection.

Originally posted by hadriana
One day I'm going to live a healthy lifestyle.

I'm going to eat all the right things, and nothing else. I'll brush and floss after every meal.
I'm going to exercise just the way I should, and stretch first, and wear the right shoes for the job, and the right clothes.
I'm going to make sure my house is spotless, and there are no firehazards in my home. I'll make sure there is not a spot of trash in my yard, and it is kept appropriately cut.
I'll be the right religion and the right size, and shape, and I'll be educated, and be a model employee. I won't smoke or drink, or burp ever again.
I'll keep my hair brushed and my car clean and change my sheets every couple of days. It won't be a problem, because my laundry will all be caught up.
I'll go to the doctor for my checkups and the dentist once a year.

One day I'll be perfect. Not for me, because I like me fine the way I am. I'll do it all for the strangers that walk down the street that see me. I owe them perfection.

im scared to even ask what your life is like now if your avoiding all of that already.
all joking aside id recoomend actually doing most of that stuff though.

The Effect of Protein and Glycemic Index on Children's Body Composition: The DiOGenes Randomized Study

Results: In the study, 465 children (58.1%) completed all assessments. The achieved differences between the GI and protein groups were 2.3 GI U and 4.9 protein percentage points, respectively. The LP/HGI group increased body fat percentage significantly more than the other groups (P = .040; partial [eta]2 = 0.039), and the percentage of overweight/obese children in the HP/LGI group decreased significantly during the intervention (P = .031).

Conclusions: the LP/HGI combination increased body fat, whereas the HP/LGI combination was protective against obesity in this sample of children.

Another study showing calories in vs calories out (quantity) is not as important as caloric composition (quality).

Eating less is the key to losing weight. Those in power always avoid saying this, because if people eat less, they lose power over them. Food is the ultimate power tool.

The trick is this. Don't eat because you're hungry. Hunger is the body's way of telling us that it needs more energy to support its current size. That is why big people get hungrier than small people. If you are overweight and you eat because you are hungry, you are supporting your current weight.

Sure if you go a few hours hungry, you will start to feel sick. Don't think something terrible is going to happen to you because you missed that meal, it's just the fat in your body being burned, and the toxins contained in the fat being released.

Eating ritualistically (breakfast, lunch and dinner etc) is just plain stupid. If you're going to allow a mechanical device like a clock to tell you when to eat, you probably deserve the consequences. And if a doctor tells you to follow these rituals, just tell them that you don't want to end up like all the others that do.

I could not read all 23 pages, but thought i would share a few things.

1) high fructose corn syrup: There are several studies on this with some of the following.
1) Stomach does not tell brain its full
2) gets processed by the liver instead of the pancreas causing sugar spikes that the pancreas has to respond to
3) does send the signal to the brain telling it you are no longer hungry
4) recently has been linked to weight gain

www.sprol.com...

2) Another topic you may want to research is a man by the name of Weston A Price. I will let you discover his work on your own. Its quite insightful. Mostly read what he says about butter, milk, oils etc.

What I do to stay in shape (well used to now that funds have dried up some) is brazilain jiu jitsu. I have not doen much research, but it uses lots of strength, intelligence and releases lots of endorphines . It also burns something like 1000 calories per hour and has the added benefit of teaching your self defense and the working of your body parts.

Anyway, I hope this helps some one. enjoy and please people...just try to find out where YOU are going wrong in your daily life and fix it.

Originally posted by NuclearPaul
Sure if you go a few hours hungry, you will start to feel sick. Don't think something terrible is going to happen to you because you missed that meal, it's just the fat in your body being burned, and the toxins contained in the fat being released.

You're saying that feeling sick and hungry is a result of burning fat and toxins? What the what? Where exactly did you get this?

reply to post by scoobdude


Yeah, fructose is lipogenic (the end product of which is VLDL Triglycerides). So, you can imagine that any combination of fructose and glucose would be extremely lipogenic.

I've read pieces of Nutrition and Physical Degeneration by Weston A. Price. So yeah, I'm right there with ya....

reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd


actualyl fructose alone is more lipogenic tahn a combination of the 2.

reply to post by EvolutionDevolvd


How comical....

Fructose alone results in greater serum triglycerides via the process of de novo lipogenesis; however, the insulin response resulting from sucrose consumption would result in greater fat gain.

Fructose, in a sense of lipid anabolism and total serum lipids, is more lipogenic.

Sucrose, in a sense of fat deposition and retention in adipocytes, is more lipogenic (that is if comparing two metabolically identical individuals).

www.nutritionandmetabolism.com...

reply to post by NuclearPaul


If someone follows your recommendations, the body will transition into "starvation mode" and retain fat and all calories consumed instead of expending that energy.

People need to eat small meals every 2-3 hours to keep their metabolism up.

Our metabolism is like a fire. If you keep it burning consistantly by feeding it to to maintain the same height of flames, then the metabolism levels stays higher. However, if you let the flames die down to burning embers before throwing another log on causing the fire's flames to burn high, then the metabolism is doing the same surge and decline. You want to keep a steady burn for your metabolism and eating a large, healthy breakfast is important to kickstart your metabolism (which is why breakfast is the most important meal of the day).