A new crusade against Muslims is upon us

Like i stated earlier, when have Muslims ever gone into a land peaceful?
It's definately not happening in the UK. Check this out.
cbn.org...

I think one of the reasons Muslims hate us is because they believe they are the chosen ones who are God's people destined to rule the earth. But most religions say the same sort of thing. Jewish religion says the same sort of thing. Christians had an inquisition, plenty of missionaries trying to convert people so they won't go to hell.
But more of the recent tension probably arises from the introduction of Israel as its own state. Previously, the Biblibal Jews lived within the Arab countries because after all they are the same people. There is probably a lot of political reasons that ensued after the creation of the Israel state. Everyone knows that Israel is an extension of the West within the Middle East.
Anyway, the Muslims and Islams probably see the West as increasingly intruding on their identity and country. After all, many terrorist orginizations are starting to recruit those who aren't of the same religion.

Like i stated earlier, when have Muslims ever gone into a land peaceful?

What are you talking about? There are Muslims and Islams all over the world!!! Stop with propaganda already or at least refine your statement. When have Americans gone into a country peacefully? I can show you plenty of wars. That doesn't mean they are all evil.

Thumbs down for you.

Originally posted by electric squid carpet
I dont mean to bust in on this right wing'n chanting session but i do believe otts has some serious questions and perspectives that need to be looked upon without political bias, i and many other people do see the US as a country that got hit hard....and as a result have become a little deranged in their views and position in world affairs, you need to have a little more respect for other cultures and other countries regardless of a few fundementalists that live there.

Sure they killed people from your country, but you have made life hell for them throughout the years, and the quicker you accept this the quicker things may move foward.

For the love of god, please stop with the moronic flag waving mentality.

-signed

The Pinko-Commies America Hating Crying Eagle Terrorist Loving people of the world.

I have a clue for you, Electric, I'll not take the blame for that which has been done to them by them. I, nor my nation, has made life "Hell" for them.
You seem to prefer to do nothing more than incite, using the typical but meaningless catchwords, such as "fundamentalist" and flag-waving". Don't like flag waving? Tough. Although I've seen no flag waving here. I imagine anything above self-flagulation of every American is viewed by you as flag-waving, though.

Those who were on this thread originally, go back and reread the original posting. It has been changed. The intitiator didn't understand that you don't revise for content, and there is more there you'll want to read.

Originally posted by AgentGirl
Like i stated earlier, when have Muslims ever gone into a land peaceful?
It's definately not happening in the UK. Check this out.
cbn.org...

What about the radical Christians that infect every country they go into? *WARNING* Very graphic photos of abortion on the homepage. ARMY OF GOD In a nutshell, they support abortion clinic bombings and the murder of doctors who commit abortions. On their homepage, they praise Paul Hill and call him "An American Hero"

Paul Hill "I think those bullets should be pointed in the direction of abortionists."

They quote to Bible to justify their killing and support of murder.
The point being, every religion has it's nuts, and in free societies, are able to be more open. Should we wage a war on Christianity? You can twist any holy book to make it say what you want.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne


Those who were on this thread originally, go back and reread the original posting. It has been changed. The intitiator didn't understand that you don't revise for content, and there is more there you'll want to read.

Ott, Just in case you didn't get this. Isn't a good idea to change the content of your original post. Reason being is that the responses that take place after your ORIGINAL post are aimed at that content. If you go in and change it afterward people's responses can be misinterpreted.

If you have more to add to your original thoughts, please place them in a response in the thread.

Originally posted by Jamuhn

Like i stated earlier, when have Muslims ever gone into a land peaceful?

What are you talking about? There are Muslims and Islams all over the world!!! Stop with propaganda already or at least refine your statement. When have Americans gone into a country peacefully? I can show you plenty of wars. That doesn't mean they are all evil.

Thumbs down for you.

Muslims and Islams? Islam is the religon of a Muslim let's get that clear first ok.. now I don't like propoganda at all not Islamic nor Christian because neither Faith is innocent when it comes to thier approach at conversion. But at this day and age in 2004 You would think that we as a people and I mean all of us Muslim Christians Jews , doesnt matter. The JIHAD crap and HOLYWARS would have gone out.

Let me quote "Our message is to bring Islam to the world. Islam will conquer the White House, will conquer in Downing Street," Izzadeen said. "It means conquer, it means the Americans will live under Islam, like it or not. So will the UK." By George Thomas
CBN News Sr. Reporter

Jamuhn, I think their is propoganda, but it is on both sides of this battle America and the Muslim world. Do u think that anyone in this is innocent?

I'm pretty sure that radical Christians are put in jail when they are caught doing
evil deeds.

NOW, I am waiting for the "good" muslims, to round up the "bad" muslims, and
do the same..

still waiting.

Could it be that a majority of Muslims refuse to make those distinctions?
Are they afraid to speak out against "fellow" muslims?
What are they afraid of? being beheaded? maimed? their family slain? probably.

still waiting.

Originally posted by spacedoubt
I'm pretty sure that radical Christians are put in jail when they are caught doing
evil deeds.

NOW, I am waiting for the "good" muslims, to round up the "bad" muslims, and
do the same..

still waiting.

Do a Google on 'terrorists killed'. Just trying to end your waiting.

Quran as quoted: "kill the disbelievers wherever we find them" (2:191);
"fight and slay the Pagans, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem" (9:5);
"slay or crucify or cut the hands and feet of the unbelievers, that they be expelled from the land with disgrace and that they shall have a great punishment in world hereafter" (5:34).

curme,
Done.

I'll concede that it's done, in this case for show.
But there's not really a groundswell of Muslims trying to take back their
hijacked religion. I don't think they consider it hijacked..

Originally posted by spacedoubt
curme,
Done.

I'll concede that it's done, in this case for show.
But there's not really a groundswell of Muslims trying to take back their
hijacked religion. I don't think they consider it hijacked..

I didn't mean to be sound like a jerk, sorry. I think it's like the civil rights in the south. How many whites just stood by and didn't do anything while blacks were being lynched for trying to drink from the same water fountain? Even if they supported civil rights? What makes people do nothing? It's a complex issue and I don't understand why people act the way they do, but since it is so complex, I don't we should explore the reason, and yes, condone the doing nothing, but also temper it with the exploration of why. I don't think religion is the why. I think society is the why.

Yes, there are many Muslims in the US and I've had some really thought provoking discussions with a few of them in the thread:

Islam: An intolerant, inconsistant fallacy

How, may I ask can the term racism be applyed to a Religion? Religion is certainly not the same thing as race, at least not from my perspective. When I say I don't like the Islamic Religion do you assume that I mean every single member of the ethnic group with the strongest representation in Islam? If so you would be incorrect. Or do you consider Islam a race? How about being Jewish? Is that a race or religion or both?

Everyone argues this back and forth about why they hate us and what we have done or not done to each other in the past. This attitude is plain to see when the Islamic Terrorists bombed the trains in Spain and gave as one of the reasons, retaliation for a Moorish defeat that took place 100s of years ago. If you ask me, stuff that happened when no one that exists now was alive then and when no one who was alive then exists now, just ought to be let go of. But no. Islam (excuse me: Radical Islamic Terrorists, RITs, hehe) won't let go. We (the US) get blamed for situations and conflicts that have been going and building since long before we were even a country.

Ok, they hate us regardless. What? Even the 1 billion peaceloving Muslims that we are told are there but whom we never hear from hate us? Hmmmm, peaceloving people who hate us. Do you not see something wrong with that concept? I do.

So what do we do then? I guess they hate us now no matter if it's justified or not. That is what the leftwing folks keep saying anyway. If all people do is keep bring up the issues that in their minds casued the hate, there will be no solution, ever.

Is there actually anything at all that would make them stop hating us? Try this:

Suggest a course of action that we can take from this point on to assure that a crusade doesn't happen. Forget who is President. Answer this question as if you are the President of the United States right now. What would you do right now to stop this? Please explain how your think your plan would accomplish the goal of getting the hating-us-even-though-they're-peaceloving people of the world not to hate us anymore. Frankly I'm tired of it and trust that you folks who are so informed about why they hate us and think that hate is justified can solve this problem right away since you know what we've done so wrong.

So, come on. People are so good at pointing out what we do wrong. Contribute to the solution and tell us exactly what (if anything) we can do right to make these poor abused people stop hating us.

As it stands now, if Islam refuses to adapt to the century we actually all live in, I do predict a Crusade in the future. I believe they will leave the rest of the world no choice. Ironic as it sounds, India, China and the US may end up being the last unlikely allies in this upcoming mess. I believe the core Islamic religious leaders are determined that Islam will survive as the sole religion in the world or not survive at all. It would please me greatly to be wrong about this.

[edited for spelling]

[edit on 23-6-2004 by Ambient Sound]

Excuse me...but were the terrorist/hijackers on 9/11 Baptists or Methodists? NO..they were muslims!! Who were the terrorists chanting to when they beheaded Nick Berg... allah! Allah...the god of the muslims!! I don't think there are many Presbyterian terrorists are there? The muslims are getting the heat for one reason and that is because THEY are the ones doing it!! Hello? The muslims want to make everyone a muslim.....

Suggest a course of action that we can take from this point on to assure that a crusade doesn't happen.

Stop supporting dictators. Show some moral backbone. Our Middle East allies kill their own peole using equipment that we have given them, or troops that we have trained. It seems we don't care about Middle East dictators, as long as they are our Middle East dictators.Granted, during the Cold War, you had to support the lesser of two evils. The Cold War is over. Stop chasing the dollar and not pick and choose who we say are evil (the non-evil ones are the ones are where we can invest in).

Almost didn't make it through the whole thread, maybe this is a real issue

simple points: The so called "crusade" which religion is it that is crusading against islam. Well if indeed this were a crusade, then it would be all the religions of all the soldiers from all the countries in the coalition.
Aren't there even muslims in the U.S. military?


I keep asking this and no one answers..... I wonder why?
What do the terrorists want?
What does Osama want?

Okay, others have asked this, and still no good response. Where is the out cry from the true muslims that beheading these folks is bad.
And to the response about how blacks were treated: civil war, underground rail road etc........ Yes, there was a huge out cry over that injustice and many white people died to correct it.

Why does Islam bring about: hate, anger, lust and greed as being good emotions to have?

If you dont answer anything else: What do the terrorist want?
thanks

Have the lot of you ever befreinded Muslims, lived with Muslims, ate with Muslims ? I come from a village in India where Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs, and Buddhist live together, peacefully. We eat together, our children played together, sang together and at times, married eachother. Muslims are not a violent race of people, Muslims are not even a race at all. Muslims have lived amongst you Americans and Canadians for decades, and how many of you can say they have acted in such a manner as the these terrorists?
Some of you need a reality check. Muslims all over are be labeled as terrorists, racial profiling occures everyday, some cannot even raise thier head in shame of what these so called Muslims have done.

Dont go and label all Muslims as terrorists.

Deep

Where is the voice of the muslim community saying these people aren't muslims?

Welcome to the oval office, President Curme,

Specifically which ruler/dictator of what country do you suggest we stop supporting right now? You are the President, man. You need to say which country(s) we are going to stop supporting or the state department won't know who to kick to the curb. We cannot carry out that order, Sir, as you haven't been specific.

Moral backbone? I think the fact that we try to show restraint and mimimize the loss of life when that policy results in more of our own dying is a fine example of that. It hasn't made them stop hating us as far as I can see. Our fine military has had this covered for some time, Mr. President.

Hmmm. Ok, I guess the US should stop giving everyone over there Russian and Chinese made AK-47s, huh? Is not that the prefered assault rifle over there? Oh! You meant Israel but didn't actually say it did you? Ok, say we stop supporting Israel right now. No money. No weapons. We just cut them off completely. That means that they no longer have to listen to what we say and then will be free to defend themselves how they wish. You just moved the Crusade forward to next week instead of decades away. Nice job, President Curme. They (those that survived) will now hate us for letting Israel loose on em. Maybe we should just destroy Israel for them since that will make the rest of the Middle East our good friends.

Stop saying who is and isn't evil? Does that mean that they have to stop saying we're evil? Have you asked them if they would agree to that or is it ok to call the US evil no matter what? We'll apologize to Libya, Iran, and N. Korea. They all seem like a forgiving bunch of folks who are sure to love us if we just would say nice things give them money. We won't say they are evil anymore. You have a speech ready for that, right President Curme? Are you sure that this will make the rest of the world stop hating us? Seems pretty uncomplicated for something that will make everyone not hate us but I'll guess I'll have to trust you on this one, Mr. Presdient.

Thanks for the reply Curme, but I don't think I will re-elect you. After all your policies are put into effect, I think they will still hate us if Israel doesn't wipe them out first.

Who will take the next term in office?

Originally posted by Ambient Sound
Oh! You meant Israel but didn't actually say it did you?

I wasn't even thinking Israel! I'm not going near that subject. I meant Iraq and Saudi Arabia, the two 'hot button' countries. I don't have all the answers. Things aren't so simple when you sit down and try to solve them, which so many posters are not trying to do. It's hard work. It's so much easier to vilify others, which is what I'm seeing a lot of. On a side note, where is the Christian outcry to these beheadings? How many Christains are there in the world? Where is the outrage? Sound silly? That's what it sounds like when people say where is the Muslim outcry. Want the Muslims to e-mail you individually? That's a lot of e-mails. Want heads of Muslim countries to decry? Google it. You won't see it on the tv. Want to know what Muslims think about the beheadings? You won't see it on the tv. Google the mosque in your hometown and ask them. Learning is hard work. That's why a lot of people don't do it.