A new crusade against Muslims is upon us

Originally posted by AlchyBut I won't go to America, too racist for me, I'm european and I though we were the best in racism.

too racist? lol from what ive heard racism is rising in europe and becoming an issue over there, with immigration especially.

The US and Britain have made it very clear that this is not a move against Islam but only those who chose to harm the West.

yes they may have, but in the twisted minds of the terrorists they probably think that the west is just targeting muslims. and they will base their recruit propoganda campaigns on this idea.

racism doesn't only apply to people who look differn't, if someone says something mean about the American or European people as a whole or out of context over here i consider them being racist

[edit on 23-6-2004 by electric squid carpet]

Let us say about 10 to 15% (any number will do) of all muslims truely hate America. One in about 5000 of that number are the terrorist. Most of this is due to brainwashing from religious cleric nuts and from growing up in war and poverty IMO. It is a much larger number than just a few terrorist because most people will never act out. As I said in another thread, only about 1 in 5000 (guess) act on things in a violent manner that normal people may only think about doing. That leaves about one billion or so muslims that are normal non-violent people that dont hold any bad thoughts at all toward the west.

How about 1 out of every 1000 of the normal muslims standing up and saying stop all this terrorist nonsence? That's one million people!

The largest demonstration against terrorism in the mid-east that I remember is the Iranian students that marched in the streets after 9/11, a very large demonstration I must say. All the other demonstrations I have seen since then have been anti-American. Women screaming LAH,LAH,LAH,LAH in the streets and men popping off caps while they cut the head off a Bush doll or burn an American flag.

Where are all the demonstrations against terror from Muslims beyond the small groups protesting? Where are all the major protest?

The African American population in America is about 12 to 13% out of 290 million people and half that number are men, about 17 million or so. Out of those men over 1 million went to Washington D.C. to march on the capitol in the Million Men March to stand up for their principles, that's about 6 or 7 percent of the total male population of African Americans in America.

Why cant all the good Muslims of the world get together and march and show the world they are good people that want to live in a normal world and just have a good life?

If 6 or 7 percent of the Muslims that hold no ill feeling against America protested FOR America I think that would give the world and these terrorist a strong message. That would be almost impossible though because it would be hard to gather 60 or 70 million people together at the same time.

Over a billion good Muslims just watching and not expressing their hate toward terror. One sixth of the whole world population.

Do you get my point?

If this is our ideal of a crusade, I really think we need to step back and rethink this. Apparently throwing your neck at their blades and using your body as a shield against their suicide bombs isn't all that effective in beating them into that oppressive state that I assume a crusade is for.

Originally posted by namehere

Originally posted by Alchy
Anyway, John Paul II told Bush that what he was doing is not Christian at all and told him not to talk about having seen God because it can't be true and seems to be a heavy lie to murder Islam and get oil only...

right, where do you get this from? and when did bush say he saw god? and how is islam being murdered?

The world knows that about God that talked to him and help him to stop drinking!!!!!!! God told him he will have a mission and the whole white house is conviced of that. The mission is the 9/11 and the war against Iraq that have a lot of oil.
Islam is murdered in front of your eyes and it is not finish. How many of you think they are bad and violent? This is the begining of the murder, this is also not true!
They are as violent as us, as anybody but Bush lobby!

TexasConspiracyNut, its all well and good to speculate how many muslims are actually terrorists, but nobody actually knows but the terrorists themselves. I live in a city where according to American Jihad: The Terrorists Living Among Us, there is an Al Qaeda cell operating in this very city. I also happen to know a lot of muslims and play soccer with them all the time. They are very nice people, but for all I know they could be "sleeper" terrorists. They are things about the muslims I know that could be deemed suspicious, but then I tell myself its just me being paranoid, and it probably is. however, the fact that sleeper terrorists do exist and noone knows exactly who and were they are make it easy to be suspicious of all muslims regardless.

Every masked terrorist seen on tv is being called a high ranking leader, im wondering if it was bush's plan to invade the most central part of the arab world and let the "terrorists" come to them, if it was its kinda back fired with our entire media being used against us an all, eat it up, yum yum, spoon fed fear.

Originally posted by TexasConspiracyNut

Over a billion good Muslims just watching and not expressing their hate toward terror. One sixth of the whole world population.

Do you get my point?

Terror is in Iraq and in oil countries, a lot of muslims and Chefs told that was not muslim-like. Corea is waring in Iraq and it's a half muslim country
But arabs are scared by America, so, will they do something to stop those who attack Islam, because it is so for them, what can we say more...
Al Qaida was made to get the power and the oil back in the Wahhabit Kingdom of Saudi in front of Bush lobby, that's all. Al Qaida have never care about other muslim countries. It have strangely change with the Iraq war and thoses proves of a need of war. Al Qaida have never like Saddam.

So yes I have heard a lot of muslim saying terror is not muslim, but Bush is not christian too and war for oil only.
They don't show how terror (and Bushs war) is blamed by muslims in America?

Originally posted by Alchy

Originally posted by Leveller
The crusade isn't Christian against Muslim.

75% of the world's refugees are Muslims who have had to flee from other Muslims.

Ridiculous and dangerous, this is not true.

I'm afraid that it is. 88% of the world's population of refugees are Muslim. The majority of asylum seekers are muslims fleeing their own regimes. The majority of refugees are muslims fleeing either their own governments or unrest in their own countries.
The 75% figure is somewhat clouded by some sources as they tend to lump the Palestinians in as refugees from the Jews. The fact that they are refugees from the territory that was meant for them and annexed by Jordan (a Muslim nation) doesn't seem to bother the more liberal statisticians.

You know, if this was really a religious Crusade and we meant to destroy Islam as the topic implies, don't you think we would be in a burning Mecca right now blowing that big black rock apart? From a practical standpoint if we really and sincerely wished to we could destroy that place tomorrow. China and Russia probably wouldn't life a finger to stop us, and no one else has the capability if even they do. How do you think the leaders of China and Russia feel about the spread of Islam into their own countires? Would you have imagined that we could invade a country (Afganistan) that actually shares a physical border with China without their agreement to at least look the other way for a while? How about Russia? They already are having a blast with Islamic terrorists there aren't they?

Crusade? Hardly. If it ever does become a Crusade and we ever do (hope not!) find it nessisary to destroy Islam, it wouldn't take very long and we would lose a lot less people than we are now.

I'm glad that my original post sparked a discussion. That's what I wanted, really... not a big session of self-flagellation on the part of the Americans on this board - the United States has been bloodied in 2001, I understand that. But being the most powerful country in the world brings some responsibilities, I would think, as to how to approach conflict. I think that the "We have made no mistakes, it's all their fault and their religion is evil" attitude does absolutely nothing to solve the current problems.

The war against terrorism, as it is being fought, is about fighting the symptoms but not the root cause. There is no effort made to understand why people become terrorists, and how that could be stopped. Instead, by pounding countries and regions and killing innocent bystanders, we create more terrorists, who in turn kill more innocent Americans, therefore strenghtening our resolve to pound them even more into oblivion. It's a downward spiral in mutual hate and violence, and IT DOESN'T SOLVE ANYTHING.

I know that the term CRUSADE was originally defined as a war prescribed by a pope (Urban II, in this case) to free the Holy Land from the Infidel. There is also a connoted meaning, that of total war against a religion. And that's the sense in which I was using it - call it a mild exaggeration to bring attention to the fact that some people are becoming almost racist when it comes to the Muslims and Islam. And coming from a civilization which prides itself on its power of reason and its tolerance...

I just think it's important at this point that people THINK about where we are and where this is all going. Because this spiral of hate between the West and the Muslims could go really far. And saying "It's not our fault", in my view, doesn't cut it. We're better than that.

Thomas Crowne, I changed my post because I thought it needed toning down a bit. But at your request I will provide a new post for the changes. I thank you for letting me know the correct procedure for that.

In my original post on page 1, I posted a line about this all potentially leading to concentration camps. I decided that it was maybe too strong, so I decided to tone it down with the following:

It doesn't help that this war on terrorism comes at a time when there's a big Christian revival (since the 80s) in the United States. This takes on the looks of a crusade...

Peace
Otts

yep I will agree 100% AmbientSound.
Ok can anyone answer this question for me? When has Islam ever entered a Land peaceful? Has there ever been a time that Muslims have gone into an area peacfully, or dealt with another group of people without a JIHAD?

Originally posted by AgentGirl

yep I will agree 100% AmbientSound.
Ok can anyone answer this question for me? When has Islam ever entered a Land peaceful? Has there ever been a time that Muslims have gone into an area peacfully, or dealt with another group of people without a JIHAD?

Obviously you've never been to Brooklyn.

Aren't there Muslims and Islams in the US? Actually, yea, I'm pretty sure there is an Islamic center in town...Don't most countries have a significant population as such. I think just certain ones are allowing their natural tendency towards destruction get the best of them, and trying to bring out such tendencies in others of the same faith. We aren't that different you know, we like to destroy things too. If America isn't protecting itself, than we are trying to police a nation by literally destroying it. And for the others who don't actively destroy things, they just work at destroying themselves...Isn't the world lovely? Can't we all just get along?

with all the " clerics' preaching hate of the west , how do we seperate the war from the religion?...Yours seems the most intolerent these days...

Call it crusade whatever....name doesnt matter...

like the guy said..where are the demonstrations of outrage?.

till I see em...I know who the enemy is....and who drew the first blood,...

double post

[edit on 23-6-2004 by asdasd12345]

AmbientSound, i disagree with your post. for a start, even the stupidest administration, even if they did want to destroy islam, would be really dumb to declare it to the world. if they went and bombed mecca it would cause worldwide revolt against the US and they would lose all their allies.

as for it being easy to destory isliam, you are talking about getting rid of something like 2 billion people, some who may some who may not be terrorists. that would be the largest genocide in history.

tad - If the clerics are preaching hate of the West... why are they doing it? Have we tried to find out why they hate us? Or have we just decided that it doesn't matter?

I'm not suggesting that the U.S. reflect on this to come to the conclusion that it is the sole guilty party. I'm saying that as long as we point a finger in blame at them and they at us, they is no dialogue... only hate and war.