How does God want us to dispose of our earthly shell?

reply to post by Sinter Klaas


Its a bit complicated, The way I learned it we dont have anything waiting for us after death. However the bible talks about a number of 144000 people who will receive resurrection into life in heaven, ruling over man as some form of judge with Jesus as their king. Safe for those 144000, the rest of us are sh*t out of luck. The overall theme is that afterlife (The bible describes 2 forms, ethereal and physical) should be considered a "gift" instead of something we have waiting for us after death...

reply to post by faceoff85


Thank You for the scriptures...and what you write is truly quted, but put them in the context of what the bigger message is.

In Ecclessiastes, the author is guessed to be King Soloman... in a melancholly mood. He is dissatisfied with life and questions it's purpose. After questioning his existence, how material things bring no joy, he reaches the conclusion in the end that he should live for today... enjoy the simple things in life. A lesson many here at ATS could use.

Further, the reason he has no eternity to enjoy... is that the Messiah, the Christ, has not come and given him eternal salvation yet. That's about 700 years later...

The reason the dead do not know anything is yes, we are dead...cold and still in the ground...our bodies rotting away... UNTIL, the dead are resurrected upon Jesus' return...or God's return, depending on which you interpret.

The the dead in Christ shall rise...and they will be taken away as will the living in Christ...to be with God. Then at the end, the dead and the living that know not Christ shall be judged.

Have you ever seen Andy Griffith Show? Barney, the bumbling but lovable Deputy, knows the law to the letter. He arrests people for the slightest infraction with no concept of the contexts with which their actions were based.

Andy, as magistrate, hears the complaints against the suspects and drops each one....until none are left. Barney can't quite grasp why? Andy points out that its not so important to know the letter of the law as it is the intent of the law...and how it impacts people's lives.

My suggestion is to keep studying the Bible, but look at the big picture and at the Bible as a complete work...in other words, the Bible is not a Buffet to picked over here and there, but as a complete offering....

What you quoted was true, but don't miss the parts or the context of what and how it was written....

Thanks for the challenge.

Originally posted by faceoff85
reply to post by Sinter Klaas

 

Its a bit complicated, The way I learned it we dont have anything waiting for us after death. However the bible talks about a number of 144000 people who will receive resurrection into life in heaven, ruling over man as some form of judge with Jesus as their king. Safe for those 144000, the rest of us are sh*t out of luck. The overall theme is that afterlife (The bible describes 2 forms, ethereal and physical) should be considered a "gift" instead of something we have waiting for us after death...

Yes, some branches of Christianity do hold this out as the carrot, with Hell as the stick.
Countless believers have been kept in line this way.

Some of us, both theists an atheists, see it as a manipulative fairy-tale.

and collect my 72 virgins.

geeze, you are dead! god does not want your hawking or arnold body! he wants your soul.


get it?

If there is a God, I'd guess he/she cares about creation, and would appreciete it if we dispose of our used carcasses in a way that does as much good and as little harm to this Earth as possible.

If there is no God, then it's our responsibility to care for this planet we chanced to evolve on, and leave it in as good condition for our successors as possible.

Cremation with mercury filled teeth in causes nasty, world-wide pollution. That's one thing to avoid if you care. Burying preserved corpses can add all kinds of chemicals to the soil.
As for elaborate coffins, you can choose to be buried in a cardboard box. In fact, I've heard of funeral parlours accepting money for an elaborate casket and then substituting a cardboard box anyway.

When I die, if my body is of no use medically, I wish my family could just dig a hole near a favourite tree and drop the corpse in as fertiliser. I hate the idea of them having to waste a heap of cash to dispose of me when I'd rather my body was returned to nature anyway.

Some religions teach that the body must be kept intact for resurrection. I think one sect of Jews saves all their toenail and hair clippings to be buried with them. However for people like me who believe in reincarnation rather than resurrection, the corpse is just rubbish.

Originally posted by zbeliever
How does God want us to dispose of our earthly shell?

He doesn't seem to care much about what happens to our bodies when we are alive, so why should He care what we do with it when we are dead? I'm getting cremated. Billions of people have been on this planet. Their bodies have all (almost all) rotted or turned to dust one way or another. I'm speeding the process along. (I've never been a patient person )

reply to post by Kailassa


I don't believe in hell in the same sense that mainstream Christianity believes the concept. Hell as a word is non-existent in the bible. The words translated into our current "hell" are in fact the words Sjeool and Gehenna, these names are a symbolic descriptions of the realm of non-existence one enters when dying where 1 realm holds the possibility of being resurrected from while the other symbolizes permanent death/non-existence. So using this as a stick to keep people in line is not possible unless one changes the way the masses look at this concept.

@Alreadygone.

I completely agree with your stance towards the bible. However I remain with the idea that our soul is not eternal. When analyzing the complete message of the bible there are a multitude of concepts which can be easily taken out of context. This is what Christianity has done with unrivaled perseverance. The whole dilemma here is to recognize WHAT it is that has been "altered" in this way. The way to go about doing this is using the bible to explain the bible. Many Christians are not even aware what the real promise is that the bible presents for faithful followers. Instead of hoping for resurrection into a spiritual life, the bible holds the promise of a physical life on THIS planet, with an accompanying perfect mind and body which is free of disease and aging as referred to in revelation 21:4. Why would god go through the trouble of granting Adam and Eve an immortal body and a beautiful garden to live in if God's final purpose was to take them into heaven? He will fulfill his original intent and recreate what he has created in the time of Adam and Eve.. With the difference that it will be world-wide and never ending...

Originally posted by AlreadyGone
The reason the dead do not know anything is yes, we are dead...cold and still in the ground...our bodies rotting away... UNTIL, the dead are resurrected upon Jesus' return...or God's return, depending on which you interpret.

That notion doesn't work. It doesn't work scripturally and it doesn't work in reality.

1 - The 'good thief' (traditionally named St. Dismas) was about to die on the cross next to Jesus. Jesus said 'this day you shall be with me in paradise'. If Dismas was dead and unknowning in the tomb, he wouldn't be with Christ THAT DAY in paradise.

2 - Reality ... ghosts and near death experiences. People who have died and come back report everyone very much aware of what is going on and the are living on a different plane. They give information of what is happening in far away places and it turns out to be accurate. And ghosts ... VERY real. So obviously they aren't cold and dead in the ground.

Originally posted by faceoff85
reply to post by Kailassa

 

I don't believe in hell in the same sense that mainstream Christianity believes the concept. Hell as a word is non-existent in the bible. The words translated into our current "hell" are in fact the words Sjeool and Gehenna, these names are a symbolic descriptions of the realm of non-existence one enters when dying.

You are right there. But that never stopped the preachers at my church and many others from threatening us with everlasting hellfire.

reply to post by FlyersFan


The bible gives another explanation for ghosts... They would be fallen angels messing with man's head... As for near-death experiences I have not delved myself into that subject but again when considering they lived to tell the tale those people were not truly dead. they were unconscious in one way or another...

reply to post by zbeliever


Ashes - gone. Rotting in the ground is gross.

And another thing that bothers me - all the land taken up by dead bodies.

Originally posted by faceoff85
The bible gives another explanation for ghosts... They would be fallen angels messing with man's head...

After Jesus rose from the dead, he appeared to his apostles on the shore of a lake. They thought he was a ghost. He ate with them and said (paraphrase) 'watch me eat, ghosts don't eat'. Christ acknowledged that there are ghosts. If there were no ghosts he would have said 'I'm not a ghost because there aren't any'. But instead he said 'ghosts don't eat'. Therefore ... Christ taught that there are ghosts.

those people were not truly dead. they were unconscious in one way or another...

No heart beat. Flatlined for many minutes. They were dead. They reported information from other places. Things happening with people in other rooms or in other places that they couldn't know if they were still inside their bodies. They were dead and out and FREE.

reply to post by Kailassa


The bible foretold that that would happen... nothing to be surprised about. all you need to do is think for yourself. The biggest mistake you can make (IF you believe n the bible that is) is to simply accept whatever explanation anyone gives you.. If it sounds wrong, you could pretty conclusively say that it IS wrong.
"God needed another angel" sound familiar? Taken from destiny teachings and that god "takes" people who died. This is another doctrine taught in the bible which couldn't be further from the truth and which makes many people grossed out as far as biblical teachings go...

reply to post by FlyersFan


The whole near-death thing I cant go into because I simply dont know enough to talk about it. The ghost thing however leaves room for different interpretations (here we go again ).

Matthew 8:16 (21st Century King James Version)


16When the evening had come, they brought unto Him many who were possessed with devils, and He cast out the spirits with His word and healed all who were sick,

Note how spirits/ghosts are used in one sentence with demons.. My point is that, as I quoted before, the bible speaks of our soul literally ceasing to exist. Logical conclusion would be that if it isn't a human soul wich is seen as the ghosts many people encounter, it must be something else...

Genesis 9:5 (King James Version)

5And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.

The word "lives" in this scripture is taken from the hebrew word ne′fesj wich is translated as the word soul (When it fits that is ) So you should actually read the scripture like this:
And surely your blood of your souls will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the soul of man.

Look it up if you will, Im not making this up. So in essence it says that a soul contains blood... funny hey?

Joshua 11:11 (King James Version)


11And they smote all the souls that were therein with the edge of the sword, utterly destroying them: there was not any left to breathe: and he burnt Hazor with fire.

So now souls can be struck with a sword. Point being that nowhere in the bible is a soul described as a seperate part of our being... So again ghosts are not the souls of man

reply to post by faceoff85


People aren't angels. Angels aren't people. They are two separate species. One can't become another.
Angels are pure spirit. Always have been. Dead humans are a disincarnate soul.

"As purely spiritual creatures angels have intelligence and will: They are personal and immortal creatures, surpassing in perfection all visible creatures, as the splendor of their glory bears witness" (CCC 330).

reply to post by faceoff85


Sure there are demons. There are angels. But there are also ghosts. Christ said so.
And there is soooo much scientific evidence being collected now. The whole world is full of spooks!
BOO!

Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by faceoff85

 

Sure there are demons. There are angels. But there are also ghosts. Christ said so.
And there is soooo much scientific evidence being collected now. The whole world is full of spooks!
BOO!

please check the edit in my previous post.
I dont know about the rest here but this is quite entertaining... Its not often one can discuss these things in a friendly and openminded fashion, thnx everyone for the respect shown here...

I just came upon the following scripture:

Genesis 3:4 (King James Version)


4And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

So the earliest known trace of the "immortal soul" doctrine came straight out of the mouth of Satan the Devil himself... I'd say this is enough reason to at the very least be skeptic towards this doctrine...

There are certain people who I wish to be locked in a small, poorly ventilated room with meagre sustenance and my rotting corpse, which has suffered 3rd,4th and 5th degree burns. Why? They know the reasons, and they know who they are, and they live in fear because they know that it could happen. It's not likely, but the thought helps keep me sane.

I am so glad I asked this question on this site....Faceoff, I am also glad you have responded with your point of view.You have given us alot to think about...I must say I believe in a afterlife...
Egyptians mummify their bodies;American Indians put their died out for animals to eat;Hindu's burn them on a float...Correct me if I'm wrong ,but they all had very specific reasons for how they discarded their loved ones...
I just wondered what our creator want us to do with our bodies...

reply to post by zbeliever

How does God want us to dispose of our earthly shell?

Do you believe in God? If you do, you may consider to ask yourself how and why the human machine was built the way it was and then question its value in any other environment.

This mechanism is really quite marvelous and though it is inferior to many quadraped abilities, two hands w/opposable thumbs are worth four legs and a 45 mph speed limit any old day. So, if life recycles, then back to this form we may well return. But if a spiritual plane is what awaits, then the physical will serve no purpose except as a point of reference for when we want to spook someone.

Boo.