Travis Walton (Moment Of Truth) Proof, Hes A Liar!!

reply to post by Krusty the Klown


what question? evidence? Ive given you what I percieve to be the holes in the narrative.


The polygraphs, the medical. Others include the fact that depending on which narrative you go by (FITS) Walton picks up a instrument, tries to break it but cant, and fends off three greys using it. He goes into another room, meets some more human looking creatures, and thats where it ends. Yet in the narrative when his friends find him hes extremly weak. Yet he was strong enough to fend off his captors just before being returned?


These are what I percieve to be the holes in the narrative.


and then theres the claims that when waltons family was informed of his being missing, they were calm about it, and that some even said not to worry that they would bring him back.

Then theres also the fact that atleast one member of the crew saw a UFO abduction movie within the week of the incident, which by itself, sure is absolutely meaningless, but when taken into consideration with everything else thats been said in the case then and since then, leads me to beleive its a hoax.

its not a matter of conclusivity, if by which you mean certainty. The only person who will ever truly for 100 percent certain know what happened is walton himself.

Of course its a matter of conclusivity, that's why we're all here on ATS.

Apologies for not replying to this in a previous post, but it came to my mind after I posted the previous response.

Conclusivity is why we are all here.

If you don't believe what Travis Walton said is true then why are you wasting your time posting here - simply go about your life and let the interested discuss the issue?

Originally posted by Krusty the Klown

its not a matter of conclusivity, if by which you mean certainty. The only person who will ever truly for 100 percent certain know what happened is walton himself.

Of course its a matter of conclusivity, that's why we're all here on ATS.

Apologies for not replying to this in a previous post, but it came to my mind after I posted the previous response.

Conclusivity is why we are all here.

If you don't believe what Travis Walton said is true then why are you wasting your time posting here - simply go about your life and let the interested discuss the issue?

Is it? theres no such thing as true conclusivity, of absolute truth or certainty. Such is the scientific principal.

When science finds a explanation for something, they dont close the book on it and say "Ok, thats concluded, thats done with its over" No, they say "given the evidence, thats the best explanation we have for now"
If new evidence comes along later, the explanation is revised.

But nowhere is the sense of absolute certainty, and with regards to peoples personal lives, like I said he will only know. As far as why did I chime in this thread? To get my 2 cents in. Your replied, we began a narrative. I dont intend to take up the entire thread arguing, and I wouldnt have even replied beyond my original post if you had not done so. My original post in this thread was just to get my two cents in, and now that it is, if you want to continue this discussion with mr walton sans debate, so be it. Im good with that, ive got my two cents in

Originally posted by NavalFC
reply to post by Krusty the Klown

 

what question? evidence? Ive given you what I percieve to be the holes in the narrative.

And there in lies the problem.

It is what you perceive.

That does not make these things valid or credible facts supporting a conclusion

reply to post by NavalFC


NavalFC please don't feel that I am trying to flame you

I am just debating on pure logical arguments.

reply to post by NavalFC


Just out of curiosity.

In which country do you reside?

As a Gen Xer it's still interesting to know where someone you are talking to actually is geographically.

reply to post by Krusty the Klown


The United States of America

reply to post by NavalFC


Thanks NavalFC

Like I said as a Gen Xer it still interests me that we can have this discourse in real time electronically from another time zone or another continent.

It must me in the middle of the night where you are!

One thing I've thought long on hard on on this case, which I understand was traumatic, is that it was "arranged" for maximum disclosure/awareness. The entire thing, had the police involved, charges would have been laid or where, I can't remember, and it was a public awareness campaign. With true negatives, you don't come back.

Edit to add: There are many different races of ETs, and I'm not talking about role playing M'Kultra black ops as I've heard some say, some are from earth, for earth has many secrets and channels, space-time and densities as do all the planets in the solar system, ie. Sleeper/Lou Baldwin comes to mind. What this means in terms of some of the Vrill type, black op type co-operative programs even, is not quite what we think. True negatives do exist however, ET invovlement to me, isn't for the purposes the militia or black ops envision in their goals.

So some of what we call renegades aren't. I've had to go through a lot of searching regarding what would appear to me more negative expereinces, with many more positive ones, competely removed from our black ops and the nazi/vrill/or US Naval presence involved in the bases and co-operative programs.

I only get positive memories, but am aware of the trauma and get very overwhelmed whenever this cracks open even a bit, by post traumatic stress. And then its contact, and context. Its all put into context.

For anyone, trying to gently, as opposed to a big dump of hard to take memories, trying to nudge free some of what they know or suspect is occurring in their lives, there is a way that may work, it depends on the person's grade or level or what they really came to do in this earth school, but:

1. Reaching unconditional love, and really learnign that its like John Lear/Sleeper say, overcoming our weaknesses, and turning into strengths, living with integrity, compassion, and without greed or envy. Really seeing through the traps in this world and overcoming the world, and always striving to lend a helping hand. This brings us protection, from negative channels, it doesn't eliminate sorrows in our lives, or tests, or hardships, but if we strive to handle these well, with reacting to others, or blaming them, or wishing for revenge, but forgiving all, and striving to walk through other's moccasins, we avoid the negative channels, we're not giving them permission. And everything in this world, all of it, is watched over by those Higher Ups, far over the heads of all the ones planning the traps and pitfalls for others. TPTB, and the common criminal, who is often just a traumatized child, can plan things ,but they don't have the ability to carry out, what is not allowed.

In other words, if we're meant to live longer and carry out a purpose, we do. The goal of this school isn't to live the longest, its to progress.

2. For memory rettrievals and inner direction, and even occasional question and answer sessions, setting intentions before sleep, meditation, and sungazing are very beneficial. I have a thread on how to sungaze safely and its purpose aside from physical health and increased pineal gland, is spiritual, related to the Holographic Universe Theory.

Water, connects us to the earth grid, and often in your bath, or doing dishes, is a great time, to connect within, ask questions, and really search for answers. Explore things you've read or heard. You'd be surprised what kind of answers or even contact might come.

reply to post by Unity_99


Unity_99, you seem to be assuming that the reader shares with you a common frame of reference. I'd wager a lot of people aren't quite sure what you're talking about when you use terms like "true negatives."

I am intrigued, though, by your idea that Walton's abduction may have been a managed event. When skeptics like NavalFC take issue with what they perceive as inconsistencies, such as Walton in one moment being strong enough to physically ward off three "aliens," and a very short time later being found in an extremely weakened state, I don't really see these things as being inconsistent, any more than I would have a problem with Walton being allowed to wander the ship freely and play with its apparent joystick controls.

Why?

Because there is much anecdotal evidence, from many sources, which suggests that the abduction experience is a strange form of communication, and that everything happening within its context is designed to send a specific message. If Walton had the experience of seeming to violently ward off the "aliens," and of wandering the "ship" and playing with its controls, I suspect he had these experiences because that is exactly what his abductors wanted him to experience.

The trick is deciphering the meaning of these experiences. Figuring out why abductees experience certain things is a huge puzzle, especially since we don't know the motives of the abductors and have plenty of reasons for assuming that deception and confusion may be a large part of their repertoire.

Now that this thread has cooled, I return to say this. To all of you who flamed me, good. To all of you who called me names, good. To all of you who supported me, Thank you. Any thread that brough ole Travis Walton on it must be hitting a nerve in the right place. As we all seen he came a swinging on this thread, and even did a little interview with ATS.

Travis, you was lying, you are still lying, and you will always be a liar. That is your're only legacy you will leave in this world. We have done even more research since this, and there is a lot more hard evidence coming out soon to expose you even more. I say to you Travis, take the money you have made from this little story, and stop! I would really hate for you to be sued from many people on the bases that you were found to be a liar. This could cause great trouble for you and your're family to fight all of these rumors. Just 1 lawsuit could ruin you Travis.

But if you want to keep trying to seduce publishers, and hollywood for more money than by all means continue at it Travis. But in the end you will lose everything from these lies you are trying so desperately to sale to the world. The gigs up buddy, you have been exposed by many people, the best polygraph team in the buisness and soon to be a life long friend!

reply to post by Mr_skepticc


So he's lying because you threaten him with law suits, or because you say so?
I'm just trying to understand why you somehow believe you have achieved 100 percent certainty that he is lying.
To my knowledge, he has not stated that he lied.

The gameshow may have proven to you that he's lying, but it hardly proves anything in the scope of his story.

It is clear that you have a personal agenda here. You clearly need the man to be wrong so badly that you question his integrity as a human being. You look past everything because you need to be right for some reason.

- Travis Walton has four children. His family is his legacy and will be around after he dies. When you say he has no legacy, you're showing us what you're really all about. You're either jealous of the man or hate him for personal reasons. Either way; it does absolutely nothing to find the truth. Leave the smear campaigns to politicians.

reply to post by Mr_skepticc



You sir, are a coward....

The guy was here a few months ago and you had your chance to speak directly to him. You wait all winter and then come back after the dust has settled and he's gone? Pathetic little person you are. You remind me of that little 5' bully taking shots while standing behind your protector. Big talk now eh? Pfffft

reply to post by Mr_skepticc


This is really weird, because it seems so obvious that this is a game show and doesn't have anything to do with the truth but entertainment. Did you see the expressions on their faces? To me it doesn't seem reasonable a game show would give Travis 1 millions dollars for taking the polygraph correctly? It is claimed that he did pass one after the event. Maybe he is skeptical now. He certainly looks sincere. I will read the whole thread and see it there are any answers.

reply to post by Mr_skepticc



Wow Am I not impressed !

Travis Walton's last post is October 14th 2010...

You get back here 14 months after and flame the guy when he's no longer around ???

Travis, you was lying, you are still lying, and you will always be a liar.

Aside from that stupid game show that proved didley squat...Go ahead and Prove it !!

Step up to the plate Mr_skepticc.





P.S. Although I doubt that Travis Walton will waste his time and get back here to argue with you.

Originally posted by TWILITE22
What a set-up, someone please tell me how can he have had truthful responses all throughout the show and the last one be false?????????I for one believe his story.

Exactly. Since all the other questions were about the same event, how can they be true? It's a logical paradox and proves the test is invalid. Travis and his family should have protested but it could be they all signed a contract stipulating they would not. You could see it in Travis's son that he was not happy the way the show ended.

If I'm Travis or his son, I'm not leaving it there. I'm suing. This way he gets the $25K plus reimbursement for damages to his character.

Perhaps an interest in aliens and UFOs ups your chances of actually seeing or being abducted by one.

If these theoretical aliens exist they would know everything, including probably what we are thinking and doing.

Originally posted by Unknown Origin

Originally posted by TWILITE22
What a set-up, someone please tell me how can he have had truthful responses all throughout the show and the last one be false?????????I for one believe his story.

Exactly. Since all the other questions were about the same event, how can they be true? It's a logical paradox and proves the test is invalid. Travis and his family should have protested but it could be they all signed a contract stipulating they would not. You could see it in Travis's son that he was not happy the way the show ended.

If I'm Travis or his son, I'm not leaving it there. I'm suing. This way he gets the $25K plus reimbursement for damages to his character.

I'm beginning to see how this whole game of not only the ufo situation but other conspiracies as well is being played out.There are so many people out there that are purposely spreading disinformation and lies to cover the truth,I have to say it took me awhile as I am relatively knew to the conspiracy world,but now the lies and disinfo stands out like a neon sign.I could go on but the reality is even on ATS I have found that the more popular conspiracies are attacked at full throttle and the discussion of the topic becomes lost.Thoughts and ideas are squashed,conversations become defensive,so I find I'm losing interest in posting on this site.
As far as Travis goes he's telling the truth,I can imagine myself in his shoes though and the crap he has had to endure over this incident...wouldn't want to be him

He shouldn't have agreed to going on the show as the polygraph is not 100% accurate! www.abovetopsecret.com...

I believe his story!

reply to post by Unknown Origin

/agree... Some people are fantasy seekers. They will believe it simply because it makes their life more magical and fantastic. On the other hand, there're people who would deny aliens simply because it supports their lifelong passions and beliefs about reality. The key to remember here is that in all of these cases we have NO empirical evidence. So even truly rational people cannot arrive a -certain- conclusion. The evidence is suggestive of something, though. But what is it?

Some people are lying. I would agree with that. But I think a few are telling the truth. This is where the line between reality and fiction is very, very fuzzy. This is where people get lost.

Honestly, I probably wouldn't be this open minded if I hadn't actually talked to people who think they've seen ufos or aliens. If I had never known about it being -real-, I would have just ignored it. But believing you saw a ufo or aliens does not mean IT HAPPENED.

... It just means that they're not lying. Some of them actually believe they saw ET.

Where it gets interesting is when the report is detailed. When a witness starts describing intimate details on the UFO that was supposedly hovering above their heads, you have to wonder if they're embellishing or lying. Detailed reports also make us wonder if they did indeed see something out of this world. Some reports ARE very detailed and otherwordly.

If some of the UFOs were alien then one has to wonder why we don't know? This is the big question that plagues peoples minds. This prevents a lot of people from opening their mind to the possibility of alien UFOs. Because the moment you accept that some might be alien UFOs, you must also ask then why the government is not actively investigating it and warning the public? So one possible consequence is that the government has not seen any evidence of alien UFOs and thus has nothing to tell us. OR the government has found something and is tight lipped. But if they're tight lipped then this suggests the very disturbing possibility that our government is not serving our best interests. This opens a whole can of worms that discourages some people.

And what if the UFOs are covert military projects? What if their occupants are humans? Taking this idea further, what if they do genetic experiments and breach human and animal rights?

Could our government say that there's no evidence of ET and be correct? Yet also tell us that UFOs are piloted by human occupants that have significantly advanced themselves beyond normal means. If humans were significantly more advanced, would that not make them ET's?

We've always assumed that the US and other developed countries are the most advanced humans on earth. But what if they're not? What if there's another civilization that's even further advanced? The question that comes to mind is whether they would be considered ET or not.