You don't mutilate your daughters - why do you mutilate your sons ? (Discussion concerning human se

Originally posted by Reign02
reply to post by Death_Kron

 

That is cause you are from the UK and most males are not circumsized..... Ask some American women and they will say they prefer penis without the foreskin, I guarantee that atleast 80% will and the other 20% wont care

I've never travelled in the USA, but I have been with plenty of Americans elsewhere. Now, since they were outside the states is an indication that they are a bit more adventurous than the rest of y'all, but I have noticed an unwillingness to engage in certain sexual acts.
My pet theory is that it boils down to the prevalence of the perjorative expression "sucker" in the USA. I'd imagine it'd amaze you septics that have never travelled, but, when offered a reciprocal arrangement, even the most uptight will usually have their preconceptions overcome by their curiosity.

reply to post by mryanbrown

So I guess by your logic we should cut off everyones ears.

That seems like quite a leap in logic to me. If you cut off your ears I would imagine you would have a harder time hearing, whereas, even though my foreskin is gone my member still works just as well, if not better (decreased sensation supposedly). I can still reproduce and I still enjoy the opposite sex immensely.

reply to post by Gorman91

I had a farm-animal life of being fed and cared for like a pig.

Yeah &, just like a pig, you had part of your body removed for the sake of a tradition which your farmers barely understood themselves.
Now, I undertand where you're coming from: my childhood was a bit rough. That said, my 1st reaction to any criticism of my mother or what she did is pretty much "say that again & you die", even tho I fully understand that much of what she did was bang out of order.
Its a case of 'I can coat her off, but regardless of what she does, you cant', b/c, despite the progress I've made in therapy, my ego is still too fragile to accept what feels like an attack on my core (Oh my therapists love me: how could they not? A geezer that understands what they're trying to do [possibly better than they do themselves] & cant help but use that knowledge to try to wriggle out from under the truth thats being presented to him ). I think that the most important lesson I've learned so far, even tho I'm still struggling to implement it in all of my daily life, is that defending against what feels like an attack is rarely the best option. Even if it is an attack, its better to allow the antagonist to go full-steam ahead, because then you'll have more insight into what makes them tick, thus your riposte can cut straight to their core & avoid any further unpleasantness (unless they hit you, in which case all bets & gloves are off, eh?). Also, that which seems like an attack rarely is. Rather its just a difference of opinion, but going balls-out in defence precludes an exchange of ideas & thus learning.

reply to post by Bunken Drum


There is nothing much to learn. Probably the most retarded comment, but God says so. Thus, I don't really care.

This is like arguing weather or not to follow the 10 commandments. For someone of that faith, it's simply out of the question.

never said you have to go chop-a-lo on all little boys. I'm saying to say it's somehow a prediction of who I am and what I am based off that one fact is pretty ignorant.

And for that matter, I simply don't care. It's a doctrine of faith for me. And not going to change. Best response is "some doctrine of faiths are to sacrifice virgins to volcanoes". Yea, that's a good case. But it's not my doctrine, so I don't care. I'll stop it if I see it because someone's life is in danger. Just as you will not chop your suns foreskin off. Ok then, that's fine. That's life.

reply to post by Echtelion

One of the most repulsive threads I've ever read on this site...

How can removing a relatively useless piece of flesh from a male's sex organ amounts to the same thing than EXCISING... etc.

Well, you claim to have read the thread, so perhaps you just didn't understand what has been posted by those of us who are intact. Nevermind. Here it is in a nutshell: the foreskin is not "relatively useless". Go back & check what those of us who have 1 say about it...

I really don't care to know if the OP is bi-sexual or not. Your sexual life experiences really don't matter, nor are they helping. They are merely derailing the topic.

Circumcision is part of the Jewish faith. It was meant to be a right of passage when a boy became a man, not forced upon you without your consent from birth. Making it a standard medical practice when in fact it's purely religious should be outlawed.

To me the defenders of circumcision are laughable for a number of reasons.

1. They are denying this is mutilation despite the fact mutilation is the alteration of the individuals body against their will.

2. They are supporting mutilation and saying it's no big thing, while saying female genital mutilation is a crime. (It should stay a crime btw). They of course say the difference is that the woman is hurt when she's older, well what if females were mutilated when they were newly born? It would still be illegal i assure you. Double standard.

3. They think the foreskin is useless despite it containing a large number of nerve endings which make sex more pleasurable.

4. They believe it stops UTIs' despite the fact one of the functions of the foreskin is to keep the glans clean!

5. They believe it stops STD's but there is no real evidence for this and anyway condoms are rather more effective.

The saddest part however is the attitude that it looks better. They are actively mutilating the body of a baby, using an unecessary procedure because they think it's aesthetically pleasing. This is how a man is born and we're told that it's disgusting? Seriously? How is this correct?

But anyawy, it looks better? Isn't that like saying a turkey looks better with makeup? It's pretty ugly no matter how you dress the thing up.

reply to post by Gorman91

Because my faith says so, basically.

Ok, but I know that you realise that doing things for no other reason than tradition is nonsensical, eh? I understand that circumcision is nowhere near as bad as some of the things people have done/continuue to do for the sake of their faith, but that doesn't alter the fact that childhood circumcision is damage to the body without the consent of the person residing within that body.
You went on to say you dont care. Ok, from what you've posted, I'd guess thats because you think the foreskin is unimportant. What I'm trying to get over to you is that its more important than you seem to believe, & thus, removing it ought to be a matter of informed consent.
On the subject of "care vs dont care", everything we do, say, or think matters. Imagine it like electricity & Ohm's Law. There's a triangular relationship between Voltage (V), Resistance (R) & Current (I). R stays constant unless the environment changes, but otherwise they're all dependent on each other. So, substitute Attitude, Emotions & Behaviour in a triangular relationship describing the workings of the psyche.
Every single thing, no matter how seemingly insignificant, matters. If you do not instinctively grasp the truth of that statement, it is because some event/s in your life has/ve already damaged your empathetic ability, so your attitude is governing your behaviour. However, emotions will make their way to the surface, in some shape or form, eventually. Often, this unconscious expression of unacknowledged feelings gets unhelpful at best & downright ugly otherwise.

reply to post by Bunken Drum

Every single thing, no matter how seemingly insignificant, matters.

I think if you let every little insignificant thing have an effect on you, you won't last long in this life. You have to be able to let things go.

I had never even thought of how being circumcised affected me until I read this thread, so it must not have very much. I never once thought that I wish I had the choice. I trust that my parents did what they felt was best and that is enough for me.

I think this thread is great for discussion, but thats it. I don't think they should change anything about the way things are done. Theres a million choices parents make for their child as they grow up, this is just another one, unfortunately irreversible.

Though I obviously have no proof of such, my guess would be that most circumcised males don't even think about it, its just the way it is and they could care less. I would further hazard a guess that the men who wish they had a choice are also in the minority. From what I understand, if this is something that is done later in life its extremely painful. Lucky for me, as far as I'm concerned it was absolutely painless for me seeing as how I do not remember it one bit.

Further, I don't see how possibly this could ever be changed while abortion is legal. How can you justify making it illegal to circumcise a baby, but legal to abort an early term child?

I also think there are about a billion other issues in the world people should be concerned with before this one. It's really not that big a deal, my member works, I'm quite happy with the way it works, I'm quite happy with the sensation that I have and I am quite happy with the way it looks.

reply to post by Pimpish


Hate to tell you this but without a foreskin the sensation you have during sex will be reduced. The test of this is to simply look at men who have had their foreskin restored and ask them what difference it made, the responses are very interesting.

However to me it's a far simpler issue on three fronts.

1. Female circumcision is illegal, this comparison is shouted down because the girls are older and suffer horribly, so lets be fair and apply it to babies. If baby girls had their clitoris removed at birth for no medical reason then it would be considered a crime, and of course it should be a crime, you are mutilating a childs body. So why when it's a boys the foreskin, a bodypart which functions in many ways like the clitoris, it is perfectly acceptable?

2. This procedure can be done later in life. It's painful yes, but adults will put up with the pain and anyway an adult can take heavy pain killers until it's healed. Babies do enter a form of nervous shock when this is done to them, they might not remember it but if we're going to justify things because people don't remember them then there are a whole slew of crimes that could be excused with that one.

3. Apart from the religious, this is done because people are lied to about the supposed benefits or worse than that it is done to make it look better.

The baby never gets a choice, that's pretty bad.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

Hate to tell you this but without a foreskin the sensation you have during sex will be reduced

That point has already been made multiple times in this thread. I have responded multiple times that I am quite happy with the sensation that I do have and I am quite happy that there isn't more pleasure, because sex is amazingly pleasurable to me as it is.

Originally posted by Pimpish
reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

 

Hate to tell you this but without a foreskin the sensation you have during sex will be reduced

That point has already been made multiple times in this thread. I have responded multiple times that I am quite happy with the sensation that I do have and I am quite happy that there isn't more pleasure, because sex is amazingly pleasurable to me as it is.

So out of all of that you pick up on this one thing. Well sorry but it's about more than just that and just because you're happy dosen't mean others are. My point being you shouldn't support the mutilation of a baby and yes it's mutilation when someone else enforces it upon you without a choice.

Why not let the baby decide when he's older, when he can make an informed choice.

reply to post by Gorman91

Yea I'm calling BS on this. Stop derailing the thread and trolling. Get to the point. What is it about circumcision that is so incredibly bad that it should be banned?

Oh dear, not just 1 but 2 of the typical responses of the online-defeated: "derail" & "troll". Attack the messenger... How could you have read the thread & not got the message?
My point, from the very beginning, has been that you cannot possibly know what having a foreskin feels like & are thus in no position to comment on its importance. I'm telling you that the common attitude that its 'no big deal' is wrong.
Then you go on to say that there is some benefit to inflicting pain on a child... Just incredible! Therefore you do accept that it is painful, right? Contradicting your assertion that there's no trauma...
I forget who the philosopher was (some German bloke I think) that said we should start every day by putting a toad in our mouths, because, from then on the day could only get better. I'm pretty sure he was joking. Still, if you honestly believe that hurting children so that they'll not be surprised when they get hurt as adults is a good thing, why pick on the one area that can best make up for the sadly common reality that "life sucks then you die"? Why not just punch them in the face regularly?
Oh yeah, because that would leave a visible mark of abuse & you'd get arrested. Keep it covered then, is it?

Originally posted by Death_Kron

Originally posted by Reign02
reply to post by Death_Kron

 

That is cause you are from the UK and most males are not circumsized..... Ask some American women and they will say they prefer penis without the foreskin, I guarantee that atleast 80% will and the other 20% wont care

What's got to do with me being from the UK?

I don't agree with Circumcision's taking place because the individual doesn't have a say in the matter, as I've already mentioned no one should be able to give permission to remove parts of someone elses body.

Those American women you speak about are very ignorant and absent minded, I've never known a man to prefer a women with no Clitoris...

These particular women your talking about are sexually ignorant because if they knew the amount of pleasure that can be had from having a foreskin they wouldn't object to a man having one, unless they were completely sexually selfish and only interested in their own pleasure...

No clit?? HELLO we aren't talking about cutting the head of the penis off........... And how the hell do you know that America women are ignorant and absent minded? American women are more independent and have more knowledge than most women throughout the entire world....

No clit.... seriously you don't know what the hell you are talking about... If you are going to compare women and men, Man gets his foreskin (usless and pointless skin) cut off. If a woman is going to get a similar procedure it would just be the removal of the HOOD OF THE CLIT....

And please tell me the the "extra" pleasure of having foreskin? All I know is my wife has multiple orgasms when we have sex, and I feel AMAZING when we do as well. So......

Originally posted by ofhumandescent
reply to post by nixie_nox

 

If any of my three babies screamed at night (My first born did) I played, Moon River by Andrew Williams and dance with him all night....................that seemed to calm him down, but it took several hours.

My son liked "A New Chapter Of Dub" by Aswad & yeah, I'd dance him around until he settled. My daughter preferred Beethoven's 9th, but she slept really well, except when she was teething.
Trouble was, my son (who wouldn't sleep for longer than about 3hrs) liked the music pretty loud, which defeated the whole purpose, because the deal between my wife & I was that I'd do whatever it took during the night (we used to express her milk & freeze it so I could feed them with a bottle), so long as I didn't have to deal with them 1st thing after being asleep for ages (I get major league grumpy: cant help it), so that she could get a decent amount of sleep during the night. Yeah, the tunes would wake her up.
In the end I used to take him out to the car so we could have the tunes on loud & I could rock him off to sleep.

reply to post by Bunken Drum

My point, from the very beginning, has been that you cannot possibly know what having a foreskin feels like & are thus in no position to comment on its importance.

I may have missed it in this thread, but my question is this then, are you currently circumcised and did that as an adult after you have had sex multiple times?

reply to post by Xtrozero

Well maybe he just can't understand as some of my friends do who are not and have issues of ripping the skin during sex at times

The only time a foreskin gets ripped is when the other person is dry. Now, this can happen as a result of several hours of sex without a break, but is more common when the orifice central to the action (dont you just love trying to stay within T&Cs?) isn't the most traditional one. These circumstances are what KY was invented for.
If you are doing the deed in a traditional manner & your partner is dry, what you need to be wondering about is not the damage you may inflict upon your member, but just why is it that your partner isn't turned on?
Couldn't have anything to do with selfishness, could it?

reply to post by Pimpish
No, I'm intact. Of course this means that I cannot comment on what it personally feels like to have grown up cut, but, as I've posted earlier (which someone apparently objects to: hey ho, I'll get to replying to them eventually; RL keeps dragging me off from iLife), I'm bi & not only promiscuous but also mad into sex, so I do have plenty of experience of how the 2 kinds work & what that does to the owners.

reply to post by Bunken Drum


So then, you clearly are just as unqualifed to comment on how sex feels to someone who is uncirmcumcised. I would be interested to hear from someone who has experience with both and their opinion on if after being circumcised they did lose pleasure.

Its a pretty tough topic really. I personally am glad that I was circumcised. I like the way I look and feel and everything works how it is supposed to. I also would have hated to make the decision when I was older and had to go through pain that I would remember.

I also can understand the flip side though and see how, if someone were unhappy with being circumcised, that they would be rather upset they never got the chance to decide for themselves.

Originally posted by ofhumandescent
reply to post by Gorman91

 

I wish I had been your mother...................I hopefully would have given you love, hope and peace.

Sadly you lack these human qualities.

I really wish you had been born onto me.

edit on 21-9-2010 by ofhumandescent because: (no reason given)

TBH, there's a part of me that wishes you'd been my mum.
2nd without a smart arse joke... (Oops!)