Men's-rights activists seek right to decline fatherhood in event of unplanned pregnancy

I agree that abortion is a horrible thing, and that in a consensual relationship, both the man and woman should have say in whether it happens.

That said, I don't think that the man's say is as important as the woman's say. Yes, that is not fair, but the way of it is that there is a baby growing inside of the woman, changing her life forever. There are men who have children who don't even know they have children, but women have to drag that kid around in their womb for a long time, and then as soon as it comes out, generally the woman keeps the baby. There are quite a few more single mom's in this country than single dad's. If you're a sixteen year old girl, and it's a choice between finishing high school or having a baby, I can guarantee you that abortion is going to be a choice the girl is thinking about making. A baby never jeopardizes a man's chances to finish school and to work. If you are a young, already poor girl, what the heck will you do when you are 8 months pregnant and can't go to work, or have just had the baby but need to take off time to take care of it, but your work will fire you if you take off the time you need, but the economy is in such a s--thole that you won't find another job if you have to quit.

The fact of the matter is, men really don't understand. Yes, most fathers love their kids very much, but they just don't understand why the woman's opinion in this matter is more important. Women should listen to their boyfriends/husbands and consider and respect their opinion, but in the end, it is the woman's choice. And if the woman chooses to keep the baby, the man needs to respect that. He can't just hightail it out because he doesn't want it. He still won't be doing but a fraction of the real work to take care of the baby anyways if all he is doing is paying child support.

From the original article:

“Roe says a woman can choose to have intimacy and still have control over subsequent consequences,” he said. “No one has ever asked a federal court if that means men should have some similar say.” “The problem is this is so politically incorrect,” Feit added. “The public is still dealing with the pre-Roe ethic when it comes to men, that if a man fathers a child, he should accept responsibility.”

I think we have a fair sampling here on ats of the"public" he's referring to. The constitutional principles that Roe v. Wade are based upon, are for ALL citizens. You may not agree with the logic the court used to find governmental overreach based on amendments 9-14, namely privacy rights. But if you do agree with their logic when applied to women, and deny it when applied to men, you are a victim of doublethink. And a proponent of doublethink. And in no way a supporter of the Constitution itself. Here, from the majority opinion,delivered by Judge Blackmun, Roe v. Wade:

On the merits, the District Court held that the "fundamental right of single women and married persons to choose whether to have children is protected by the Ninth Amendment, through the Fourteenth Amendment," and that the Texas criminal abortion statutes were void on their face because they were both unconstitutionally vague and constituted an overbroad infringement of the plaintiffs' Ninth Amendment rights.

As you can see, the decision held that there is a fundamental right of single women and married persons to choose whether to have children. As there were no child support laws at the time, it's obvious to me that the omission of "single men" is not an intentional assertion that the 9th through 14th amendments don't apply to single men, but rather the laws that have since been passed were completely unimaginable at the time. Hard for the Justices to imagine a time when single men were forced to have children. But as you can see, the decision was not about the autonomy of a woman's body, but about government intrusion into people's "choices."

Me ME ME ME thats almost all i see in this post if its a woman posting she says she alone should have the right to kill her unborn child or not. And they man should pay ether way.
the men are all saying we should have the right to choose life or death or no responsibility just as much as the woman.
Let me ask you ONE THING if the unborn child could talk WHAT would they say?
please mom kill me???? please dad Dont support ME?
well MANY of these UNBORN children DO say WHAT they want as they are NOT DEAD and strugle to LIVE for days at times before dieing.
Ok woman want the right to Kill there child then LET THEM SEE what the dead CHILD looks like BEFORE they kill it. They are many in jars .Yea you baby you killed may very well end up in a JAR in science class .
Now ovesly if a woman may die by trying to have the child that is a different thing and if she was raped .
BTW i would like to know out of how many rapes accure how many woman get preggers from it I bet it rare.
but still then that also would be a different thing as well . To take a life so causaly to the point were you try to say it not alive even is sick as any thing i can immange.
You should KNOW beyond dought what your going to do.
as for men I understand woman want it all the rights to have us or leave us The right to kill our UNBORN child or not .The right to make us pay EVEN when they Deni us the right to be a father .
WEll MEN I CALL TO You being male Lets be BETTER then they are and do as much as we can to help no MATTER what.
thats right say I will be a FATHER I will fight for MY CHILD its a LIFE you created as well lets take what we can and show woman HOW a man should be and how A PARENT should be.
a parent should LOVE there child from conception on. a parent should help tyhere child grow into a BETTER person then they are .
You know I have a 16 year old son Ill ask HIM HOW he would feel if his mom would have aborted him.
I bet i know his answer.
as a matter of FACT how would YOU FEEL if your mom ABORTED you?
Knowing you would never be able to come here and post how you should have the RIGHT to kill your child.

If you are amle, avoid sex unless you are prepared to accept ALL KNOWN OUTCOMES of that sexual union.

Obviously some men cannot do this and advocate passing laws so they can have sex wantonly and abandon myriad of children to be raised by strangers.

WOW.

reply to post by Jenna


WRONG! The law should be fair for both and should be on the side of “life”. If a woman gets pregnant and plans on having the child, the law says to the father, “Payment Please” no money? get a second or third job! That is fine and fair enough.

But on the other hand if the woman wants to abort the child, and the father wants to have it, the same should apply and the woman should be forced to have the child and turn it over to the dad. Men have feelings on this subject the same as a woman. If a man can be forced into one situation, then it should apply as well for the opposite. Do you think it is fair for a woman to abort a child that the dad wants to keep? How about the anger, anguish, and mental torture the man may feel, as the woman kills his child?

Remember the court always uses the excuse “it takes two to tango” and the man has to take care of his half of the responsibility. Well, if this is the case it should work both ways. "You can’t have your cake and eat it too"

reply to post by hotbakedtater


Yes thats about what I see here. And two extreme "options" wiht life long consequences and should only be a last resort to avoid abuse or trauma and create these in of themselves, is what they use to think that fathers should be off the hook unless they "feel" for having a child.

Originally posted by Jenna

Originally posted by 2weird2live2rare2die
if a woman wants to abort her child and the father does not, then she should just have the baby and let the father take care of it. i don't see the problem with this concept...

The problem I have with that is you would be forcing a woman to carry the child for 9-10 months. That's a lot of time for her to resent the baby, go out drinking which can harm the baby, and do heaven knows what just because she doesn't care if the baby is born healthy or not. If I can't force a man to carry another living being inside him for 9-10 months, why should he be able to force me to do so? Is it not easier for both parties to go their separate ways and the man to have a child with someone who does want to have a baby?

Oh but murdering the baby is a much better choice.

Im not sure how to respond to the entirety of the discussion but I will flirt with a few ideas. First off, the father SHOULD have a say. Women want to be equal in all ways to men, well men should too. However, we also can’t force someone to do something they don’t want to but what about the child? Im sure it doesn’t WANT to die, so I think we should all get over what’s best for mommy or daddy. What we should be saying is how can we save the child and get it into the best care possible?

If the father does NOT want the child and neither does the mother, then they can file for foster care or adoption. If the father does not want the child and the mother does, then the father is just going to have to take responsibility and pay what is needed. If the father wants the child, and the mother doesn’t, the mother should have the child and be turned over to the father's custody and SHE pays child support. If the mother drinks, smokes, or takes in such harmful substances, she will be charged with attempted murder or manslaughter. Blood tests each week should be done to enforce this.

Some will say, no one can tell a woman what to do with her body. Well, she should have kept her legs closed and the same goes for the man by keeping his pants on. Accept responsibility and stop convenient killing.

The child has rights just as anyone else. Everyone is screaming equality but only when its convenient for them.

reply to post by xyankee


No money?? How irresponsible of him to be engaging in behavior KNOWN to result in a new life forming. Gee, maybe he should have thought about that little problem before he had sex?? Just a thought, apparently there are very few men who post at ATS who believe in the concept.

Simply unbelievable the lengths men will go to deny their own BLOOD.

Obviously men advocating this law are scum who want nothing to do with their own blood baby if the condom breaks, knowing the result of sex could be baby. To condemn a child to a life of fatherlessness, just because some scum wants a one night stand and then run off to the next, is the bottom line of this type of nonsense. Cowardly scum support this bill. What kind of sickos are those people??

From the T&C:

) Behavior: You will not behave in an abusive, hateful, intolerant, bigoted and/or racist manner, and will not harass, threaten, nor attack anyone.

Yeah, I think that your namecalling qualifies as hateful, intolerant, and a series of attacks.

reply to post by xxcalbier


I am glad that you want to take responsibility. I think everyone should take responsibility.

But, before you start demonizing the woman and calling her irresponsible for choosing abortion:

a) How many men irresponsibly leave women as single mothers? A good proportion of teenage girls who get pregnant DO accept the responsibility while the men don't. Your gender is not angelic and perfect when it comes to parenting. (on a side note, men are more often abusers and rapists of children as well.)

b) think about her reason for the abortion. How old is she? Is she old enough to be a mature parent? What is going to happen to the kid if she does have it? It could be that the most responsible choice for her is an abortion.

c) Yes, abortion is taking away the right for that child to have a life, and this is a sad thing. But once a month, babies everywhere lose their chance to be fertilized and have life when women have their periods. There are thousands of eggs inside the mother, and many of them that COULD have had the chance to life die.

reply to post by hotbakedtater


Your right, that is his problem, did you read the post? I am not saying that the guy should get off scott free. He should live up to his responsibility. I am just stating he should have just as much say in keeping the child as well.

A father should have the right to take the mother (who is planning abortion or adoption) to court, and force her to turn the child over to him.

still you quibble over ME ME ME .
Well I am MALE I love my children more then my life and could NEVER con-sieve OF killing my unborn child .
and am more then happy to do my part and MORE.
Stick that in your BRAW and burn it.
woman ARE SO lucky they get to feel new life growing in them I Envy you .
I watched my wife give birth 3 times and each time was like see a GOD i don't even believe in.
I fealt the baby KIK in her as it turned . Fealt the movement OF THIS UNBORN child which you say isn't alive.
for some thing that wasnt alive he kiked quite hard.
You want to through away The bst PART of being a woman? and you think men are lousers?

This is just stupid! It takes TWO to tango and produce a child and if they don't want to have an unexpected pregnancy wear a condom otherwise you are just as responsible for that child.

Originally posted by xxcalbier
still you quibble over ME ME ME .
Well I am MALE I love my children more then my life and could NEVER con-sieve OF killing my unborn child .
and am more then happy to do my part and MORE.
Stick that in your BRAW and burn it.
woman ARE SO lucky they get to feel new life growing in them I Envy you .
I watched my wife give birth 3 times and each time was like see a GOD i don't even believe in.
I fealt the baby KIK in her as it turned . Fealt the movement OF THIS UNBORN child which you say isn't alive.
for some thing that wasnt alive he kiked quite hard.
You want to through away The bst PART of being a woman? and you think men are lousers?

I think you may have misunderstood what I was trying to say, which is that women generally want to keep their kids, but circumstances make that impossible. It's not that they find kids inconvenient, or that they are afraid of the pain, it's that for women, having a kid is a lot bigger of a step than it is for a man. I can see that you care a lot about your kids, but you don't understand what it is like to be the mom. I am not being sexist, nor am I personally attacking you - I am stating a fact. Men don't get what it's like to be responsible for a life for 9 months inside of you, and then the main caregiver for the next 18 years after. For women who have no money, for women who will lose their jobs and be put out on the street if they are to continue with the pregnancy, for women who will be kicked out of their house by their ultra-religious parents and be left with no support, it doesn't do her or the baby any favors to give birth and raise it in an environment that she can't support it, or to give it up to an already broken foster care system. There are things that men just will never understand. Just like a woman will never understand what it feels like to get kicked in the balls, men will never understand what it means to be a mother. This is why the woman's voice is first in the battle of 'keep it or not'. Men's opinions matter, but the woman is the trump card.

Originally posted by spacekc929
reply to post by xxcalbier

a) How many men irresponsibly leave women as single mothers? A good proportion of teenage girls who get pregnant DO accept the responsibility while the men don't. Your gender is not angelic and perfect when it comes to parenting. (on a side note, men are more often abusers and rapists of children as well.)

Maybe alot of men do abandon pregnant women but if they take the right course, the courts will handle him and assist the mother with raising the child. We have dozens of welfare programs for this very thing. So this point is invalid.

b) think about her reason for the abortion. How old is she? Is she old enough to be a mature parent? What is going to happen to the kid if she does have it? It could be that the most responsible choice for her is an abortion.

If the mother is too young, lets say under the age of 18, then she will have to have her parents sign for the care of the child until she's old enough or give the child up to foster care; so no, murdering the child is NOT the most responsible option.

c) Yes, abortion is taking away the right for that child to have a life, and this is a sad thing. But once a month, babies everywhere lose their chance to be fertilized and have life when women have their periods. There are thousands of eggs inside the mother, and many of them that COULD have had the chance to life die.

If you knew anything about reproductive anatomy you'd know this is completely false. Eggs are just cells with a X chromosome. A sperm is just a cell with a Y chromosome. Once united, they are a totally new entity all together and is now a potential human being. A sperm never will be a human, and an egg will never be a human. An embryo will become a human and destroying THAT is murder.

reply to post by spacekc929


I am sorry that you feel that way, maybe she should have thought about wether or not he was reliable before she fooled around. You cannot justify it. The mother does the same thing to the father by making him sit on the sideline wondering what the mother plans on doing. Where is the fairness in that and it is just as bad as the father abandoning the mother. Men have feelings, it is said that the mother becomes a mother at conception, a father becomes a father when he feels the love of his child at birth. Men are not able to make that connection right away because the child is not physically inside him.

Originally posted by AzoriaCorp

Originally posted by spacekc929
reply to post by xxcalbier

Maybe alot of men do abandon pregnant women but if they take the right course, the courts will handle him and assist the mother with raising the child. We have, unfortunately, dozens of welfare programs for this very thing. So this point is invalid.

With the abundance of single mothers in this country, and the amount of them who do not receive child support, seems to me that that whole 'taking the right course thing' hasn't worked out too well for everyone.

If the mother is too young, lets say under the age of 18, then she will have to have her parents sign for the care of the child until she's old enough or give the child up to foster care; so no, murdering the child is NOT the most responsible option.

And if the parents won't? If her parents are poor? If her parents are dead? If she only has one parent? If her parents disowned her for getting pregnant? You can't always rely on the parents to take care of her. There are times when they will but many times they won't or can't. Generally, it is time the times they won't or can't when women decide to get an abortion.

If you knew anything about reproductive anatomy you'd know this is completely false. Eggs are just cells with a X chromosome. A sperm is just a cell with a Y chromosome. Once united, they are a totally new entity all together and is a potentially a human being. A sperm never will be a human, and an egg will never be a human. An embryo will and destroying THAT is murder.

edit on 16-9-2010 by AzoriaCorp because: quotes

It was just something I was thinking about, which is that many entities that could be human potentially don't make it. Yeah, and egg and a sperm together are not the same as just an egg or just a sperm, but the egg still has most of the genetic material of a human inside it. Yeah, it's not the same, just something similar I was thinking about.

reply to post by spacekc929


No! what if the father says i want the child, once the baby is born, go take a freaking leap, I don’t care. He He is taking on the responsibility, it is no longer her concern. That is where she has no say!

reply to post by xyankee


I agree with what you are saying. I do not advocate women getting abortions willy nilly and I want her and the man to work out together what happens. I just think women should have the executive decision. She is going to be the main caregiver and is going to, with her actions, ensure whether the baby comes out healthy or not. She has to change her entire diet, has to buy new clothes, has to do quite a bit more than the man has to do, so she should get the final say. Not that she shouldn't listen to the man, and really, I would rather her have the baby than not. But men do not get to decide what a woman has to go through. Women should get to decide what women have to go through, and if she wants to take the easy way out, she is the one who should have to bear that cross. Same if she decides to keep it.