Economic Manipulation and how it leads to Religious Extremism

The key is human development, but the decisions and aspirations for creating a perfect society become blocked, or redundant, when someone puts "god" in the equation. Once god comes into the argument, nobody takes responsibilities for his or hers actions:

"It wasn't me. The devil influenced me"
"No, I cannot take credit for that good work. God guided me"

Every problem on this planet; whether it's social, economic, political or environmental, all descend into the realm of humanity and the consequences of man. However, the god argument, in times of unrest, is used to single out and proscribe antipathies to those who are different.

Of course, the human psyche will always require a religious or spiritual stimuli. As we continue to evolve, humanism and Gia belief will become the new dominate religion of Earth. God is dead, irrelevant and fundamentalist reactions are nothing more than finally death throes of a dying establishment. Saudi Arabia, Israel and the Vatican are resisting growing secular and moderation. Each day, more Saudi's are becoming liberal and protesting against an unauthorised theocratic state. Young secular Israeli's are a minority among the Orthodox class and the Rome Catholic Church is held hostage to daily revelations of a controversial nature.

All the current xenophobic and religious hatred is designed to protect the dominate religious class. However, the system will crash and burn. Humanity will be better when the current organised religious class declines and is removed from this Earth.

Religion is the opium for the masses - Karl Marx

reply to post by infinite

All the current xenophobic and religious hatred is designed to protect the dominate religious class. However, the system will crash and burn. Humanity will be better when the current organised religious class declines and is removed from this Earth.

One might question whether it is for love of notions of God or fear of notions of one's own self and responsibilities that keeps this codependency alive.

It really is almost like AA where they teach you that you alone can't be your own Master and exert control over your self, but that you need the constant reinforcment of others to do ultimately what you do have to do yourself.

Are people simply afraid of the idea, that they are on their own, or more importantly that they are alone?

Great post as always my friend in cuting to the heart of the matter.

Again, just as with all your other threads, we share the same thoughts, thank you, keep them coming!!!



I have to correct you on one 'quote'
'money is the root of all evil'

No its not, money itself is not evil, nothing wrong with it at all, never has never will be, you need it to buy a house, food, car, pay the bills etc if its evil dont work for it. Money should be replaced with greed, as its greed that causes one to have excessive amounts of money in the first place.

I am not flipping out on you here, I know where you are coming. Thanks for your thread it does clear a lot of things up.

reply to post by naeem11111

No its not, money itself is not evil, nothing wrong with it at all, never has never will be, you need it to buy a house, food, car, pay the bills etc

Thanks for joining in my friend.

Here comes a big part of our program. The concept of acquisition through purchasing, has become just about the only way one can acquire things.

The earth has been carved up basically in it's entirety by people who don't just 'own' it, but 'control' the resources of the earth itself.

So yes we do have to purchase what the earth produces for free in many regards by buying it.

Now most equate buying with earning, yet we know that people who don't work, because they either inherited money, or stole money, or in some very rare cases printed their own counterfiet currency didn't earn it.

So maybe it's better to say that it's the system of acquiring things, from people who horde things, is what is evil?

I don't know, but the artificial scarcity that is created through a system that promotes hording and owning as not just a means to survival but one for acquiring status and power over others might in fact be evil.

Most of us would like to say if you don't work you don't eat, but many people who have no work, would in fact love to work, but that becomes problematic once all the resources have more or less been divided amongst a tiny percentage of the people, that then do horde them, and restrict access to them, through their ownership and how they want to distribute them for power and status.

Poverty is really the number one enemy, and the system of hording is designed to create poverty, and submission to those that horde, and then lord, with what they have horded over all the rest.

Money just happens to be the medium of exchange.

Government really is much more about protecting the rights of the horders at the expense of those in need.

It's a very strange world.

Thanks for sharing my friend.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Here comes a big part of our program. The concept of acquisition through purchasing, has become just about the only way one can acquire things.

The earth has been carved up basically in it's entirety by people who don't just 'own' it, but 'control' the resources of the earth itself.

You are absolutely right Proto but at least we still have this, they haven't figured out how to charge us for it "yet".

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


I agree with 100%, we have the means, technology and knowledge to get rid of poverty and have an equal society but the elite dont want that and the people are 'dumb down' and have renderd them unable to resist and are now part of the matrix. My favorite quote off the movie.

"I'm going to show these people what you don't want them to see. I'm going to show them … a world without rules or controls, borders or boundaries. A world where anything is possible. Where we go from there is a choice I leave to you"

However, unfortunately

"The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system, and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it"

Regards, Naeem

reply to post by naeem11111


You are correct people given the illusion of freedom fail will fight for their very Masters who took their freedom away in exchange for an illusion.

It all seems to center around that word absolution. Obey, conform, and perform and you have nothing to fear, except from those that do not obey, conform and perform as the State and it's interpretation of God deigns appropriate.

It becomes like a shiney prize to those who want recognition and validation, obeying, conforming, and performing for that shiney little star on their forehead.

In the past several days I have heard more people bandy about words like citizen, instead of human being, American values instead of human values, the importance of the Constitution over nature and it's laws, none of which seem to have any earthly clue that they are enslaved to all these notions, and are condition to perform towards perpetuating them, through illusions and word games, that leave the carrot they are promised always just inches away from their nose, and always someone else's fault they don't have it in their own eyes.

Most can't even see the fear and hatred that rule them, and indeed how their emotions themselves rule them.

Notions of God, Country and King become sacrosanct and only someone who means ill would question them, becomes the battle cry as people rally around notions of God, Country and King to form defensive and offensive lines, refusing to question that which they have been taught is right on behalf of God, Country and King since they were little children.

They have no trust in themselves, they have no trust in their fellow human being, they only have trust in the notions of God Country and King they have been raised on from birth.

We live in an infinite universe of boundless possibilities yet all they see is those three things, as pursuits in it, worthy of the human being, who are not humans in their minds but Americans or Iranians, Jews or Muslims, Republicans or Democrats, as if all are gladiators in a great arena who serve no purpose but to battle and threaten one another.

In a world where you must live and die, for God, Country and King.

Life remains stranger than fiction.

Great post thanks for sharing.

reply to post by Aquarius1


Oh but they have, it's called global warming and the carbon's emission tax they are proposing. They are in fact charging us for our relationship with the sun.

So sorry to say, they have that covered. Nothing in this life is free, not because it is meant to be, but because we have been painstakingly and painfully taught that from birth on.

Death and taxes, death and taxes, your two absolute gaurantees.

In all else let the buyer beware, yet they seldom are!

Thanks my friend.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


The human specie is vulnerable. It expects that something, divine or otherwise, is above us and manipulating events. Protecting and guiding us on a moral journey or dimension. Without it, society my aspire to greatness but a significant minority may collapse - out of pure fear. The fear or being alone and having to make decisions, without the prospect of "something" ensuring everything will be good in the long term.

If we moved towards Humanism or a religion founded on the protection and growth of the Earth (Gia) - society will be greater. The Human story has exciting prospects, but we need to stop with god and gods.

Gia is dependent on a collection and development of interrelationships. Our survival, as a civilization, depends on it.

reply to post by infinite


Ideally in a perfect world, we would all be doing what we love the most and giving it freely to others in exchange for everyone sharing in the bounty of the earth and what humanity can collectively produce.

Rather than as we are now, letting what the earth and we collectively produce flow through the conduits of a few organizing oligarch hands for their own profit and control.

People who like to farm, would farm, because they love growing things, people who love to heal, would heal, because they love healing things, people who like to built or craft would do that because they love doing those things, and what they love most of all, is then giving it to their fellow human and watching their face light up with a appreciative and admiring smile.

Our tallents and passions have been diminished through a system of hording and disconnect that judges everyone based on harsh standards of idealogy and notions of god and their ability or inability to perform in a harsh non-supportive, highly competitive dog eat dog world where people are sustained through this cruelty by simply asking foregiveness of a imaginery and mythical diety for their own often cruel and indifferent actions that are required in excelling in the present system.

In a hundred years time, excessive breeding long left unchecked as part of the competetive system will double the planet's population to 14 billion people.

The problem is the vast majority of today's 7 billion people are so conditioned with notions of God, Country and King that cause them to breed as a defensive measure and simply an indulgence or 'right', will absolutely not stop doing that under this present system.

Tragically the 2/3rds of the population that is likely to be culled are those so indoctrinated into this system, that they would fight forever to maintain it, through over breeding and a might makes right mentallity.

It's not really their fault they were programmed that way, but it does become a bit of a dilema for those who can't see the writing on the wall and what's causing it.

It also becomes a dilema for those at the top in the present system who need to stay one step ahead and cull before a mass recognition occurs of what is truly behind the events that have so many worried and scared and suffering and pointing fingers at and looking to all the wrong places.

The Powers that Be are screwed if the religious and those inflicted with national instead of human identity figure out how to get along and will no longer fight one another.

It is of paramount importance to the Powers that Be that they do fight one another before that occurs and eliminate one another, while they still have control over the resources and the distribution of them, so they can continue to rule in the aftermath of a more trimmed down, culled and homegenous group of human livestock.

It's big trouble for every one, but the Powers that Be, with no one winning but the Powers that Be if the greatest minds amongst us, don't figure out how to stop it before it occurs.

If left to their own devices they will just set the cycle up all again after the culling.

Different rules, different system.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Man, me and you have the same minds.

These days people cant even think for themselves, they WANT the government to do everything for them. Feed them, cloth them, help when stuck in the snow etc. This is England, and I can remember when I was a kid nothing like this even existed and then 'you should drink 7 litres of water a day'(contains sodium floruide produced mainly by metal works or carbon flouride, naturally occuring but in my area most people rejected this, Thank you first cause) on all food or drinks bottles you get the RDA=recommended daily allowence. Do this, do that and now every region in the country have moved from analouge to digital and again the government want atleast 2mb broadband speed in every home by the next 5 years or so(as more and more are leaving their tellys with fixed programmes, for computers maybe TPTB want to get everyone on the line and then bring in all that no more net neutrality so they can control the content on the internet as well, possible theory)

It's the same thing in Russia, all the people who are around my age (I'm 17 and I dont drink or smoke) or above are drinking vodka twice or thrice their own body weight, after the USSR collapsed (the biggest disaster of the 20th century according to me) the people's conditions went back like during the reign of the Czars(serfdom). It was terrible, people just disappered, poof, gone, kuput. No more. The older generation (I asked everyone) 'crave' for the Soviet Union to come back, to me it sounded great not perfect yeah but better than now (Where as my generation, have become dogs). No taxes to pay, free education including university(no need to go into debt that early in life), free housing (dont pay the bankers nothing! didnt even need them) etc all these things for almost nothing BUT all this came at a price and as you know, Hollywood didnt exist over there,so there was none or very limited 'free bread and circuses' to keep them quiet and then the secret was out and the hammer and sickle was no more. Now the west, especially America, the land where the people arrived to leave the old world masters and fought tooth and nail just to became 'free', is joining the Soviet Union and every other empire to the museums.

Hegel was right when he said that the people will become obedient to the state, they are! I am a human being with manners but I actually abuse the government, squeeze everything from them. The way they treat us was to be discovered by the masses they will be lynched on the spot. And besides 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you'. The people allowed them to treat us like dogs so treat them like dogs, their created religion even says so!

Have a nice day!

Regards, Naeem

Some cheery news to drive home the point about how poverty drives anger and extremism.

First:

NENEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- The nation's poverty rate jumped to 14.3% in 2009, its highest level since 1994, and the 43.6 million Americans in need is the highest number in 51 years of record-keeping, the government said Thursday.

The Office of Management and Budget defined the poverty threshold level as less than $21,954 for a family of four in 2009. The poverty rate increased for all racial groups except Asians.

money.cnn.com...

The highest number of Americans living in Poverty in 51 years. This is not the fault of any single politician, it's our own collective fault for doing so many things that individually harm the economy and keep down a living wage.

To ceding governance to the corporations while pretending it's the government itself that controls these things.

But lenders repossessed more than 95,000 homes -- a record -- and that was up from 76,000 a year ago.

money.cnn.com...

People continue to be disposessed at an alarming rate.

Which breeds an environment where:

A New Jersey woman placed a camera in the room of her 91-year-old mother so that family members could see her, but what was caught on camera has shocked the family and led to an arrest.

The footage shows a home health aide beating the 91-year-old woman, who suffers from Alzheimer's disease.

www.cnn.com...

Frustrated angry and violent people.

Unhappy with the conditions that they are forced in to to try to survive.

Was this woman working as a home health aide because she loves her work? Or simply because she was desperate for what work there is?

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by Aquarius1

 

Oh but they have, it's called global warming and the carbon's emission tax they are proposing. They are in fact charging us for our relationship with the sun.

So sorry to say, they have that covered. Nothing in this life is free, not because it is meant to be, but because we have been painstakingly and painfully taught that from birth on.

Certainly know that Proto, you may have noticed I put "yet" in quotations, the song was a nice respite nonetheless,

I have my views on Organized Religion and IMO, it's dangerous and destructive to our species. It serves no room in our society, especially now in 2010. However, the Middle East uses their religious institution as their government.

Here in America, many conservatives rather put religion into the government and have it play a very big role.

Christine O'Donnell once said removing religion from schools resulted in weekly shootings.

I think that shows you the logic of these people.

Religion has nothing to do with it. The problem is money and the people who want to take yours away from you. The have plenty of money to spend fabricating all kinds of movements, mostly with help of CIA. The powers that be, who made their money out of cheating YOU, are using their money to bribe everybody to set you up so they can cheat you some more. There are Fema Camps all over the country to herd you into to separate you from your life and dispose of your body, If you are not willing to believe this, then keep happy in lala land for as long as you can. It behooves the rest of us to alert as many people as possible that this danger is mounting and get it averted by removing these people from power, throwing them in jail or whatever and taking our country back. I would point to 911's flight 93 but it is a complete fabrication. But we need to overcome.

reply to post by m khan


One thing is clear, is that the powers that be are expert at keeping the population divided and distracted and keyed up against one another and not them.

There is no denying that Concentration, Slave Labor, and Death Camps have been used before, and by a Christian Nation. In fact Germany was the Seat of the Holy Roman Empire for hundreds of years, taking over where Rome left off, and protecting the concepts of Christianity as Rome put forward while fine tuning them through the Protestant Reformation to make them more acceptable and user friendly to the indoctrinated yet somewhat resentful masses.

Islam itself is just another amalgamation of this system of Divine Governance meant to both compliment and rival the Roman system of Monotheism being employed by tying into the same God; Rome stole from the seemingly hapless Jews who were then made relevant by extension in perpetuity moving forward with the monotheistic system.

So yes Virginia, Santa will absolutely inter you in a camp and exterminate you if Santa feels like it.

Oh you better watch out,

You better not pout!

You better not cry, Proto is telling you why!

Santa Clause is coming to town.

He sees you when you are sleeping he sees you when you are awake, he’s got satellites in space and unmanned drones in the sky so be good for goodness sake!

It is the poverty, the artificial scarcity that keeps people so frustrated and divided, superstitious and ignorant though.

It's a very stacked and finely tuned system so taken for granted very few people even recognize it for the control grid and matrix that it is.

Thanks for posting.

I've seen a few posts here that assume spirituality and religion as the same thing.

In my years of undergoing spiritual discipline, I can say with experience that they have little in common. Religion is organized for the masses, it is perpetuated by religious leaders to people. Spiritualism is about an individual journey about understanding the world around them (both human and environmental), and ultimately enlightenment will come. Make no mistake though, the greatest thing about being enlightened is understanding that you truly know nothing compared to everything that is out there. Once you ABSOLUTELY accept this, you will learn exponentially faster.

This is why I see organized religion as a joke. You think contributing more money into the collection plate will get you into "heaven"? It's called capitalism, the church doesn't care about you, it cares about your money. You really want to understand the human spirit? Go by yourself into the woods for a few days and if you survive then you are worthy. If not then either die in the woods or go back to your cement cities and die there when they collapse from the only divine forces out there: nature.

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
I've seen a few posts here that assume spirituality and religion as the same thing.

In my years of undergoing spiritual discipline, I can say with experience that they have little in common. Religion is organized for the masses, it is perpetuated by religious leaders to people. Spiritualism is about an individual journey about understanding the world around them (both human and environmental), and ultimately enlightenment will come. Make no mistake though, the greatest thing about being enlightened is understanding that you truly know nothing compared to everything that is out there. Once you ABSOLUTELY accept this, you will learn exponentially faster.

.

Great post, I said basically the same thing earlier in this thread, no one can enlighten you except yourself, you don't need a guru, you don't need anyone since it not something that can be taught.

Good thread, star and flag.
Also, the post of witness63 (one following the OP) is very important.

Finally some voices of reason in the growing climate of hysteria...
I am still reading more responses and may add something more specific.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


First excellent post!

I couldn't read it all because I have plenty of homework to do. However I will finish the reading tonight, or perhaps tomorrow.

I will comment on what I did read. You compared religion to opium because they both release endorphins. I would also put materialism somewhere in there. While religion does feel good, it feels even better when you have the money to go shopping.

Would people turn to religion if they had the money and power?

I would conclude religion to be more of a poor mans drug, and materialism to be the rich's drug. That is not to say that the rich don't believe but it seems people turn to God when all else fails.