Misogyny: Ruining the Female Male Relationship(esp. in the digital age)

People are just people.

They all have different ideas and change their minds a lot. It's nothing to do with women or men in general. It's just as hard sometimes to work out what a man wants, and the perceived gender gap introduces a lot more false uncertainty in this area - like a person has to play their cards right or lie to get what they want.

Fact is, if a woman likes you and you suggest something sexual there is a fair chance they will be receptive. If you enter a relationship trying too hard to be what she wants or vice versa - of course it's going to fail! You like walking in front? It's important for you to walk in front? Walk in front! *You* create the dynamic of the birth of a relationship not some mystical socio-political force.

It's just responsible management of expectations within a relationship. It's a lost art. People just jump in and try to fit each other like mismatched jigsaw pieces. Then it falls apart after a couple of years.

Try taking some time to get to know each other and you might get somewhere. Blaming each other's gender isn't going to help.

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes

Originally posted by tiger5
I so disagree with your your first paragraph.I hope that you are deliberately choosing to ignore abesnt fathers from all of this. It is all so wrong to blame women for bad parenting. Boys need fathers sometimes! And they want their Dads a lot too.

If a woman has sex with somoene that she hardly knows, then nine months later, a baby pops out, whose fault is that ?

I, myself, have had a couple of one-night stands where the girl barely knows my name, never mind any personal details about me.

edit on 13-9-2010 by Sherlock Holmes because: (no reason given)

And this makes you what? Blame free? What was your responsibility? Did you know her? Or her name? No? But you are not judging yourself with the same harshness as you are judging her? You made a choice to have a one night stand just as she did. It takes two really, unless some force was involved in some way, is that what you are claiming? That you were raped? Or that you did the raping? You chose to have those one night stands, just as she did, which makes you BOTH EQUALLY responsible.

But, OMG that sentence has the word EQUAL in it, meaning that some people will react with fear, and in fear will point the finger at anyone, anything, SOMEONE ELSE...............but themselves. And truthfully, if your one night stand ended up pregnant, you are just as responsible for this as she is. Condoms are far more affordable than an unwanted pregnancy.

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
The one thing ive come to notice while browsing these threads is that many men always say they expect women to nurture them. You know, be the emotional backbone of the family, the care provider. Yet what i dont see is women replying to those particular posts with statements along the lines of "Thats what i want to be to a man"

Perhaps it was not just gender roles that have changed, but gender consciousness?

Thats just a general observation and is not meant to speak for any individual.

Personally I think men and women would be better off if we nurtured each other, instead of one or the other expecting to get all the nurturing.

Some women hate men, some men hate women. My experience has been, I've met far more men who hate women than the other way around. I have met many confused women, but "confused" does not equal hater. As I said about the other thread, this is turning into a misogynistic bash on women thread. Bah, they ruin a good discussion and learning experience for anyone.


Harm None
Peace

There is so much to say here, I will try to keep it short and to the point. You said 'pride in your gender'... Why would you be 'proud' of something that you had no control over? Showing pride either boosts ego, status, superiority or whatever else you want to throw in there. I agree with you that people should not hate on women. But I do believe men have certain obligations, as do men. Our government has blurred that into 'equal rights'. They are NOT the same thing. Can you honestly argue the fact that children are better off with neither parent in the home? Does it sound sexist that I think a woman should be home with the kids? Let's look at the bigger picture... I think BOTH parents should be home with the kids. But since society REQUIRES us to work to survive, obviously someone has to earn money. I know I don't want to work. I still want to be productive, but I hate having to get up everyday to go to work. If you work, I'm sure you can relate. Lack of proper child development will ultimately lead to what we can witness any public place you care to observe what I am trying to illustrate. A huge percentage of children are VERY disrespectful, self-centered, arrogant, and ignorant. What kind of future does that hold for the world? Children are our tomorrow... if that is the case, they should be receiving the most they can from us. I guess what I'm getting at, is it seems to me, your frustration is misplaced. Your anger is truly manifested from the situation society/government has brought forth. If we were on the right path, we could co-exist, fulfilling our roles as man and woman HAPPILY and VERY constructively, without feeling a 'power-struggle' or misogyny. The situation we live in is wrong, that's why we have the problems you are facing. We can only band-aid those problems, but you will see tensions grow and grow, as nature dictates how we feel about a lot of things. Notice as all these band-aids are being applied, the divorce rate goes up and up? How many long lasting loving marriages have you encountered? Women are equal to men, but that doesn't mean we have the same responsibilities. Would you ever expect a man to plan a bridal shower? Or to enjoy crocheting while sipping tea and watching soap operas? How many men do you think expect women to play full contact football, enjoy working on a car, or enjoy a particularly raunchy fart? Okay, some men/women may enjoy these things, but I'm just trying to illustrate a point. If people didn't have to work, don't you think we would be getting somewhere? Wouldn't that eliminate most of the problems? Why hasn't that goal been set for us? It seems like, work more and more, less free time... how is this progress? How is this helping our children? This is the question that needs answered.

reply to post by hotbakedtater


You think the majority of men hate women? I think you are wrong. I'm a male, and I know many males. The problem is that men of the past thought of women almost like a lesser being I suppose, a "play thing" or "working slave"...they got little respect from most men in a lot of societies, they just had to do their job and not complain whilst the men took care of the harder things such as war and hunting for food. And women listened and probably even respected the men who provided them with shelter, food and protection. And I'm not trying to sound like an a-hole in any way here, you are correct, women still to this day don't seem to treated equally on all levels, but you have come a long way since women gained the right to vote, you can't expect such a transition to take place instantly, there are many customs and ways of thinking etched into our societies which wont go away any time too soon.

I love women. What a beautiful species (not in a misogynistic kinda way). Any creature that can nurture life inside of it to the level that females do commands a level of respect. However, that is something nature gave women, women did not take that upon themselves I guess.

Anyway ...

I want to address the point about rape being blamed on the victim.

Rape is wrong. Period. In my mind it is the most degrading thing that can happen (male or female). It is disgusting.

However, I do have an issue with the attitude that a large number of the female sex adopts when out "clubbing". I have seen it time and time again where a woman dresses up all sexy (yes they have the right do wear what they want in a free society but they must understand that they dress the way that they dress solely to seek the attention of the opposite sex - I know that a lot of members here will disagree with this statement but from personal experience it is true) and then starts flirting with guys, accepting drinks from men they have no intention of chatting to etc. etc. etc.

It just so happens that one day they will falsely entice the wrong man who just so happens to be a sick # and bang, we have a rape case.

Obviously my example is limited to those on the whole "clubbing" scene and all that jazz and my argument is directed that that only, not at other cases.

There are a lot of women who act with zero self-respect and are labeled as "slappers" or tagged as "easy" and in all honesty they do themselves no favours. So when a lady who has been tagged as such gets herself into trouble I would like to think that she understands how she might have enticed it. Of course it is still wrong but blaming such actions 100% on the male is misandric (hatred of men).

***Awaits the barrage of posters ***

reply to post by 547000


Spot on, The entertainment industry causes the whole whore phenomenon not religion. They make it seem like you should lose your virginity as soon as you hit puberty or your not cool. Whilst religion condemns it before marriage.

All the examples the OP has given are individual beliefs and mistakes, the judge, rapist etc are all idiots. The reason why relationships don't last is because we do not respect ourselves. Kids don't have principles these days, they don't have any religion (Do what thou wilt and see on E! lol)...there's no one to show them right from wrong (parents too busy always working). You got kids watching Hannah Montana on Disney channel (shes their role model), all of sudden she get a record deal and a few months down the line they're watching her on MTV, what d'ya know shes turning into Britney Spears. This is the kind of BS that's ruining the world nowadays....women always find themselves trying to compete with men (Miss independent BS), men think they are more superior to women (BS). The problem here is the media influence, Am I the only one who seems to notice this?

I think that BOTH sexes are responsible when it comes to relationships failing.

At any rate, I love it when men call me pet names and flirt with me at work. Makes me feel all special. But I am an attention whore, I'll admit it.

What I HATE is when women call me pet names, "hey sugar what's your order?" What? And please, don't call me 'hun' unless you are a man. So annoying.

S&F for a lively topic, HBT.

Late to the game here, but, to paraphrase my post in the topic on feminism, which I saw first, it's really very simple. If a woman doesn't like a man who engenders and epitomizes the more negative aspects (to her) of (what she views as) misogyny, she should avoid him. And that theory works both ways. Where's the battle here on an individual or any level? The world, with all its many different kinds of people and cultures and attitudes, is never going to be exactly as we want it to be, so we carve our own relationships out of it and make our own way and choose the people we want to be with and work for/with for the long haul.. I just don't see this as an issue, I guess, or any kind of battle or strategic fight. Judge and be judged on individual merits and be happy with what you can control. I find it very easy to ignore or walk away from things that in the long haul really don't affect my world.

I do agree that in the digital age, people may more often hide behind the relative anonymity to be more vocal about things. But in general, stereotyping of any kind just makes my head spin, and the resulting discussions are a lot to think about, both pro and con.

P.S. On a different note...kudos to the ATS ad engine...look what ad kept popping up as I read through this topic and the other one! Really made me

hahaha blame religion, how typical, the number one way to NOT take responsibility for your own actions is to point the finger. Just like a killer would say "It wasn't MY fault! It was the GUNS fault!"

Grow up, get some kahunas and man up. People are responsible for the way they act. stop blaming everything around you.

Ladies, here is a simple test that will prove whether or not you want to emasculate your man.

Answer honestly. Have you ever, even once, even for a microsecond, even while you are alone with your guy, ever asked your man to hold your purse?

If you have, you want to emasculate him and dominate him completely.

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
It is hatred of women at its basest. The men I worked with were called by their given names. Only the women got called sunshine and chiefie and other weird names. By the manager. He quit after I complained, but I lost all respect for him as a manager for trying to demean us women like that. Fits the definition in my book.

OK, I could understand you thinking that was patronising, insulting, or at a push, demeaning, but hatred ?

I think you need to reappraise your own personal definition of ''hate'', and go with the more accepted, standard version of the word.

I also think you should stop looking for ''misogyny'' where there isn't any.

All this anger can't be good for you.

Originally posted by King Loki
Using my theory that any action towards women will cause and equal and opposite reaction:

Guy treats women like crap = women loves him more, which is the equal and opposite reaction.

Guy Ignores women = Women does not leave you alone, which is the equal and opposite reaction.

Guy loves women to much = women needs space and tries to get away and starts to dislike you, which is the equal and opposite reaction.

and this is why you get the very famous quote "Treat em mean keep em keen"

This is another post that I would give 100 stars to, if I could.

You speak the truth, and this is what men need to realise.

I think a lot of men need to ''man up'' and stop trying to be meterosexual types feigning ''sensitivity'', ''understanding'' and ''consideration'' to try and attract a woman. This will get you nowhere, and if you do find a woman that is suitable for you, then genuine sensitivity, understanding and consideration will come naturally.

The problem that so many ''nice guys'' have, is that if they meet a woman that's an 8 out of 10, or more, then they'll start acting like a wimp, constantly trying to please her and put her on a pedestal. This is not what most women want, which is why this approach has a relatively low percentage chance of success.

Originally posted by amazed
And this makes you what? Blame free? What was your responsibility? Did you know her? Or her name? No? But you are not judging yourself with the same harshness as you are judging her? You made a choice to have a one night stand just as she did. It takes two really, unless some force was involved in some way, is that what you are claiming? That you were raped? Or that you did the raping? You chose to have those one night stands, just as she did, which makes you BOTH EQUALLY responsible.

Well, without being too graphic, in situations like those I use the oldest form of birth-control known to man.

So, I know that a woman couldn't have become pregnant from these encounters. I doubt many other men are quite so prudent in similar situations.

I have responsibility for my actions, though, and a conscience.

You could argue that both people are equally responsible in that situation, I suppose, but they are certainly not equally accountable.

Whether you like it or not, if a woman chooses to have a one-night stand with a man that she hardly knows, then she is accountable and responsible for the consequences of her actions.

There is no way to track down the unwitting father; her saying: ''It was this tall, dark-haired bloke that I met at a pub'', is hardly going to be any use to the actuality that she is, literally, left holding the baby.

Originally posted by whatukno
Ladies, here is a simple test that will prove whether or not you want to emasculate your man.
Answer honestly. Have you ever, even once, even for a microsecond, even while you are alone with your guy, ever asked your man to hold your purse?
If you have, you want to emasculate him and dominate him completely.

OK, I have resisted commenting to you directly over the last 9 pages but I am going to now (cause you have been cracking me up and you are way funnier than me - I can't compete).

My answer is. No.

Is that succinct enough for you?

Anyways - on topic - it's imho that women should just stop trying to label men or try to work out what is in their heads. Cause there ain't nothin' in there sometimes

And men, just don't bother either.
Just enjoy

First off. No star....no flag. This is clearly just a retort from a feminist about the discussion of feminism the other day, and quite frankly, this is where I will get off of the train ......as it is not even worth the discussion. I love women....I hate feminists! Trust me...there's a big difference. Feminism is nothing but a desperate, ugly womans attempt at getting the desired attention that beautiful women get and they're pissed off because the attention they get is all negative. Prostituting for attention is still prostitution, and it should be illegal....but hey, when you're in bed with the government, I guess an attention whore is still a whore. BTW, from what iv'e seen from feminists like Oprah and the like, the only way they can make friends is to buy the people they are brainwashing expensive gifts.She bought her audience cars, various gifts of all kinds, and just this morning, she bought her whole audience a trip to Austrailia. Women will say that she is just being nice, if so, then why do the gifts have to be so expensive? BECAUSE IT'S BRIBERY FROM A FEMINIST LEADER TO GET FOLLOWERS TO HER CAUSE. This is the beginning of every brainwashing session. Just Pathetic.I mean, here we are in a deep recession, people in povery everywhere and she spends millions of dollars "buying women" to support her feminist agenda. If she really cared for people she would have spent that money (not to make herself look good...suggesting that she has HER face on every one of her magazine covers like a narcissistic nutcase) but, she would have spent any and all money that was spent on high priced gifts for "feminist cult followers".....and spent it helping to rebuild our country or feeding and helping shelter people who were a victim of the International Bankers of which she clearly knows very well. Women are materialistic and she knows this, so everyone has a price for their soul I guess.

reply to post by Phenomium


Thank you for the honesty in your post. Any doubts the feminists might have had have been completely expelled.

reply to post by shaston


What planet do you live on?
Second line.

It's funny; any misogynist I've encountered in real-life is usually one of the following things:

1. Too unattractive in physicality or personality to form a mature lasting relationship with a female.
   
2. Neurotic in typical Freudian terms. (It's been a long-term suspicion of mine that many of them are poorly endowed and project their anger on a gender they cannot satisfy sexually - remember I'm purely speaking Freud.)
   
3. The self-proclaimed victim of the end of a relationship whereby his rights to assets, savings, property or offspring are lost to his female counterpart.
   

ATS is supposed to be a Rennaissance of thought; some of the male members are medieval at best. Real men know that you can't hate a gender; you can only hate a person.

reply to post by rexusdiablos


The thing is, that I've not seen any hate towards women expressed on this thread.

There may be some that I've missed, but I'm yet to have noticed any.

The whole premise of this thread stems from the OP's lack of understanding of the word ''hate''.

You, it would seem, have fallen for the fallacious reasoning in this thread, too. The ''if you're not with us, you're against us'' mode of thinking.

Just because many of us ( on both sides ) don't think that men and women are absolutely equal in every department, doesn't mean we're misogynist or misandrist.

It's clearly illogical to think this.

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes


Nuts. I thought I was posting in the 'Feminism: Destroying the Male and Female Relationship' thread.

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes
reply to post by rexusdiablos

 

You, it would seem, have fallen for the fallacious reasoning in this thread, too. The ''if you're not with us, you're against us'' mode of thinking.
Just because many of us ( on both sides ) don't think that men and women are absolutely equal in every department, doesn't mean we're misogynist or misandrist.

Are you serious? Show me one quote where I suggested such a notion.

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes
reply to post by rexusdiablos

 

It's clearly illogical to think this.

Not to be shrill but aside from one user input error my logic is just dandy which is less than I can say for your baseless and uncorroborated delusions of what I have and have not said.