Misogyny: Ruining the Female Male Relationship(esp. in the digital age)

reply to post by hotbakedtater


Actually it began with us. Who wrote the bible after all? It is silliness to blame the symptom for the disease. And I am not saying religion is a disease. Just that certain symptoms of the problem manifest themselves in that thing we call religion.

Personally, I find the whole cycle of blame stupid to say the least. It accentuates the problems while doing nothing to fix it. Which is also a big problem I would say with the American political system at current. They'd much rather point fingers than actually fix it. They get rich and elected. But, I digress.

reply to post by hotbakedtater


Criticism of the Feminist Movement and what it has become is not Misogyny. Anti-Feminism does not equate to anti-Women. There will be no peace between the sexes as long as Radical Feminists conspire to destroy men and their rights.

Feminism is the cause of relationship problems?
Oh that is sooooo sad.
and I think a little petty considering what men are entirely responsible for bringing to the table.

What woman started any war we have ever had?

Is it feminism or is it actually machismo that is ruining the planet and the reason women and children cannot walk the streets alone?

Is it feminism, or is it actually male machismo that is trafficking, raping and murdering the women and children?

Originally posted by rusethorcain
Feminism is the cause of relationship problems?
Oh that is sooooo sad.
and I think a little petty considering what men are entirely responsible for bringing to the table.

What woman started any war we have ever had?

Is it feminism or is it actually machismo that is ruining the planet and the reason women and children cannot walk the streets alone?

Is it feminism, or is it actually male machismo that is trafficking, raping and murdering the women and children?

I would have to go with machismo if I had to choose. (Big surprise there.)

reply to post by rusethorcain


The premise of the original thread (which this one is a direct response to) is that Feminism has destroyed the Male-Female relationship. It is not talking about violence and the state of world affairs but relationships between the sexes. Your reply is indicative of what this thread represents as a whole: an attempt to misdirect from the problem being discussed and focussing on unrelated issues.

Originally posted by rusethorcain
Feminism is the cause of relationship problems?
Oh that is sooooo sad.
and I think a little petty considering what men are entirely responsible for bringing to the table.

What woman started any war we have ever had?

You might want to check history, women were in no real position to start wars, this will change once a woman gets in charge of one of the bigger nations. USA or UK i think will be the first time this happens. You seem intent on painting women as the peacemakers, sorry but it's a myth, women and men are quite equal in causing conflict, they just approach it slightly differently.

For example women will often get a man to fight the battle, ever seen a girl in a pub or restaurant taunt some guys and then get her boyfriend to fight for her? I've seen it more than a few times and each time i just feel sorry for the guy.

Of course i could point out some notable figures from history who were women and started wars, they were usually provoked into it but when wars start someone usually claims there was provocation so it depends how you want to treat that one. How about we keep it simple and don't delve deep into history, lets use something recent like erm, Margaret Thatcher. She started the Falkland conflict.

Originally posted by rusethorcain
Is it feminism or is it actually machismo that is ruining the planet and the reason women and children cannot walk the streets alone?

It's not feminism nor is it machismo, it's bad people that do bad things. Maybe you should check the statistics, more men are assaulted at night than women while they walk the streets. Oh and on Saturday nights in the UK gangs of girls have been found attacking men. But i guess this doesn't fit into your extreme ideology where women can do no wrong and men are evil and dangerous.

Originally posted by rusethorcain
Is it feminism, or is it actually male machismo that is trafficking, raping and murdering the women and children?

Actually the trafficking of women and children involves many women and i find it shocking you don't know this. In the UK Eastern European gangs traffick girls in for sex and guess what, they use WOMEN as recruiters because other women trust them. These recruiters are not oppressed either, they do it for the money, they are nasty individuals.

As i keep telling you, bad people will do bad things and both women and men can be equally bad. The difference is simply that bad women didn't use to have as much opportunity to show it, now however it's changing and this is where we see the bad side. Feminism isn't the problem, feminism is a good thing, but the extremists, the misandrists who abuse feminism are the bad thing.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


Funny how a thread that started as a critique of Feminism and the negative effects it has had on the Male-Female relationship has spawned a Sister thread 25 pages long filled with women complaining about how men are evil and hate women. White Wash anyone?

reply to post by Dark Ghost


It's not that funny, it is quite logical. On the one hand you have feminists who show justified concern that feminism could be under attack, but on the other hand you have the misandrists who want to call themselves feminists to disguise their hate.

Ok. Good thread and a nicely written post.

I think this is a little more complicated then either someone is a misoginist or not, or someone is a feminist or not. By definition, I would be a feminist but I also believe in natural roles. A woman who chooses to stay at home has more choice then a woman who has to work. I HAVE to work, and I am downright bitter.
True feminism isn't about women having the advantage, it is about being respected for their capabilities and letting them have their options. I have faced discrimination of every kind being a female.
Outright refusal of several jobs because I am female, which was the most infuriating thing of all, being rejected when you know your fully capable, to unknowing discrimination, to being discriminated against for being pregnant. My former boss did this, and I don't think he even realized it.I respect him and we work well together, as odd as that sounds. He is just old school. I would just get a male coworker to pass my ideas along. But he helped me out in other ways, giving me promotions and raises wherever he could.
The moral of the story is you gotta look at the whole picture.
I have a relative who works in civil rights. People would be amazed at the nefarious and underhanded ways companies, governments and businesses will discriminate. It will be right in front of your face and you will never see it. Even women are discriminated against without realizing it.
When I found out this job wouldn't hire me because I was a female, and even during the interview it was evident. I kept getting asked questions like: would you have a problem working with men? You will have to travel with men, would that be ok? Me: No problem, I have always worked with men.When I was 19 I used to supervise 5-20 community service workers by myself. How about them apples?
Now that I look back, that was kinda dangerous. LOL
The second most infuriating part was that I couldn't do anything about it because at that time it was a small field, and I didn't want to poop in my own mess kit and get labeled as.....a raging feminist. I HAD to let it go.
But for every bigot, there is someone who isn't. So I used that field to my advantage. I went to a professor who was a notable worker in that field and told him what happened. He said, I will let them know that they just turned down one of my best students. Boom, I got the word out and now that company will have an inside reputation.

As far as the female hatred that comes up on this site and others. The new world of internet psychology plays into this. People forget there are human beings on the other end. Many vent feelings and frustrations that normally wouldn't in public. This is a double edged sword because it does allow you to vent feelings and frustrations that you normally wouldn't. But things can be said that really bothers people.

I do agree with you that when someone comes in screaming that women are all gold digging, baby trappers. Obviously someone just had a bad situation and has applied a blanket stereotype to half the population. They are not open minded enough to see that there are two sides to every story, each situation is unique. An the experiences with your ex(s) do not apply to everyone. And they are too dismal to see how they have contributed to their own situation. And their subsequent posts are deflecting any responsibility they should take.

Some of this bigotry is self create, while others are nurtured.

I worked in a unique situation once where we had a coworker who is Navajo, and a coworker who is Chinese. Of course in Chinese society, the men rule the roost. In Navajo society, it is a matriarchy. When my Navajo coworker explained this to the Chinese supervisor, he blew up, said there is no way women can lead, and refused to talk to her for 2 weeks. Now this didn't happen in my area, but in a republican state. IN my area he would of been fired and have never worked again. But not in this state. It was a privelage to work state and people knew it. I saw rampant discrimination against women and none of them would speak up.

Which leads me to my third point, it depends on what is acceptable in that local. From where I came from to where I went, it was completely different mindsets and I was shocked. And the women were scared to say anything or didn't see it. I think socio economic status has somethign to do with this as well. The less money you have, the less power you have.
Nothing bothers me more when people come on here and say: women have the advantages. Maybe in your little community they do. But to make blanket assumptions on an entire population is ludicrous. You can never assume things are equal across the board based on your own demographics. That is just sticking your head in the sand and not accepting responsibility.They want someone to blame for their woes, so they pick an easy and obvious target. And it is a weak, weak and sad frame of mind to do so.

reply to post by Dark Ghost


More human nature than anything else. Oh what fools we mortals be.
Second line.

Originally posted by Dark Ghost
reply to post by hotbakedtater

 

Criticism of the Feminist Movement and what it has become is not Misogyny. Anti-Feminism does not equate to anti-Women. There will be no peace between the sexes as long as Radical Feminists conspire to destroy men and their rights.

edit on 10/10/2010 by Dark Ghost because: reworded

I consider myself an average modern day feminist. My foremothers fought the hard fight, for me to be able to define feminism for myself and my world that I live in. In my pov my brand of feminism involves eradicating female oppression in any form. Pretty simple and straigh forward, and NOWHERE does my philosophy include destroying men and their rights.

I think it's an equal balance of misogyny and feminisim that's ruining straight relationships.

Men can be chivalrous or chauvenistic...
Woman are either independent or cold-hearted...

It's a double edged sword, tradition clashing with social change.

A real relationship doesn't have a dominant and recessive mate,
both MUST work equally with the same respect.

Edit to add:

In Lakota tribes, women usually stay at home, cook, and have chidren while the men hunt for bison. However, the women are undoubtably given the upmost respect for they can "create something out of nothing." Men in the tribe are strong warriors and protectors and the women respect them for their fearless role.

See? The Native Americans got it right. No one is lesser than the other, both must equally work just as hard as the other.

Originally posted by nixie_nox
Outright refusal of several jobs because I am female, which was the most infuriating thing of all, being rejected when you know your fully capable

How do you know this was the reason ?

Did your interviewer tell you that was the reason you didn't get the job ?

Originally posted by nixie_nox
As far as the female hatred that comes up on this site and others.

I have previously asked some other posters to provide examples of ''female hatred'' and ''misogyny'' on ATS.

So far, nobody has provided me with any evidence that hate-filled posts against women exist on ATS.

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
In my pov my brand of feminism involves eradicating female oppression in any form.

The problem here is, that your above statement is highly dependant on the subjective viewpoint of the person that adopts it.

I would like to see female oppression eradicated too, but the notion of female oppression is so ambiguous, that it still boils down to our own opinions of what constitutes it and what doesn't, which leads to some people ( both male and female ) holding views that are extremely sexist to someone else, while genuinely believing that they are supporting gender equality.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

Actually the trafficking of women and children involves many women

Supply and demand.
Who is demanding the supply?

When a child is lost or in danger child self defense and safety classes tell that child to "run to the first woman you see."
Not the first uniformed individual.
Run to the first woman you can find and tell her you are lost or in danger.

Now, I wonder why they decided it would be safest to tell a kid that?

Originally posted by rusethorcain
reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

 

Actually the trafficking of women and children involves many women

Supply and demand.
Who is demanding the supply?

When a child is lost or in danger child self defense and safety classes tell that child to "run to the first woman you see."
Not the first uniformed individual.
Run to the first woman you can find and tell her you are lost or in danger.

Now, I wonder why they decided it would be safest to tell a kid that?

The only reason you see more women being trafficked is because generally speaking a woman doesn't have to pay for sex, they can easily find it any time they want. Men on the other hand can often struggle and so go and see prostitutes. Why you never seem to think these sorts of things through is incredble. Consider a nightclub, watch how many girls go home alone compared to guys.

I'll never understand people who pay for sex, theres a big ick factor there to me but if prostitution were legalised and properly monitored you would see a drastic drop in the rates of trafficking. So essentially it's not the supply and demand that is the problem, it's the prohibition that is the issue. Oh and legalising it would also stop the abuse of prostitutes that is so common.

They decided it's safest to tell a kid that because society doesn't like to face the fact that women are paedophiles as well. You can throw the figures around but it always escapes a sad little fact that women are less likely to be caught because they are less likely to be suspected and if you had any idea about this issue you would realise that.

Sadly you are horribly ignorant regarding the crimes of trafficking, prostitution and paedophilia. People who have read about such things and listened to the experts know the real issues. For example Michell Elliott is the founder of Kidscape, a charity dealing with abused children and helping them in other situations. She has stated that women are just as likely to be abusers but far less likely to be caught and even when caught it will often be laughed off.

So i guess you won't listen to her expert opinion because once again it doesn't fit in with your pathetic ideology. And that is why feminism is damaging the male/female relationship, because it is hijacked by misandrists.

Edit

Female sexual abuse: The untold story of society's last taboo

See the very title of that article? That is why kids are told to run to women for help instead of men, because it's taboo to point out the facts.

reply to post by Dark Ghost


Actually you are quite wrong.
This thread is a counter point to the sexist (why am I not surprised?)
and incendiary thread started by one of your fellow misogynists
suggesting strong women ruin relationships.
An idea which is patently ridiculous.

Feminism: Destroying the Male and Female Relationship

www.abovetopsecret.com...
And the expression that comes to mind is
"what's good for the goose is good for the gander,"
but then who is cooking geese?

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


Not to offend but someone on ATS said something like, if you argue with a fool you stand a chance people cannot tell who is the fool. I like that quote though I can't remember where it came from.

So i guess you won't listen to her expert opinion because....

I can't see your posts any longer.
You are suffering from a very common ATS disease..."last-word-itis."

Your mind is already made up so don't pretend you want any sort of debate or an opposing opinion. You want to stand on your soap box, call people names, tell them what they know, what they don't know, how they are, what they really think, and basically just try and shout every opposing opinion down because you must have the last word in the thread. Well, rail against the wind.

You, apparently functioning in an imaginary reality instead of the actual reality the rest of us are involved with... totally disregard well recognized, longstanding established facts.
You bring up and post only the exceptions to the rule.
Which proves something most of us already knew - there are no absolutes; men can be as whiny and temperamental as women and women can be as libido crazed and murderous as men.

But neither is the most likely scenario and that is not imaginary, but reality.

reply to post by rusethorcain


Thank you for proving my point, unable to actually offer any evidence for your opinions, unable to provide any logic behind them and when faced with the experiences of an expert (Michele Elliott for one) you try and avoid answering by posting something you think will get an angry response. All you are doing is proving that you're a misandrist. I will quote from the article i linked above because it sums up your view of men in general and also sums up how feminism has been hijacked by people like yourself.

Sexual abuse is usually understood as something bound up with issues of male aggression and power, and the idea of a female abuser totally undermines this well-established belief. Then there is a further problem in getting female abuse recognised: many people simply don't understand how – practically – a woman could abuse.

Understandably, this is a sensitive and highly emotive subject, the fallout from which Michele Elliott of Kidscape has witnessed at first hand. In 1992, she held a conference in London while compiling her book on the subject of female sexual abuse. She recalls how 30 women turned up to disrupt her address: "They stood up and started yelling about how terrible it was that I was detracting from the fact that male power was to blame. It is very disappointing when you encounter such extreme and closed-minded reactions. I was simply responding to what victims had told me."

See this is the issue, people like yourself have been brainwashed to think sexual abuse is all about male aggression and/or dominance and yet women abuse children just as often but it's not discussed in society. When it was pointed out by this researcher she was harrassed by other women.

Originally posted by Dark Ghost
reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

 

Funny how a thread that started as a critique of Feminism and the negative effects it has had on the Male-Female relationship has spawned a Sister thread 25 pages long filled with women complaining about how men are evil and hate women. White Wash anyone?

edit on 10/10/2010 by Dark Ghost because: clarity

I authored that thread and it most certainly is not filled with men are evil posts. Nice try trolling my thread in some one else's thread.