Dr S. Greer was programmed to DISCREDIT HIMSELF!

reply to post by DoomsdayRex


I'm not a Greer follower. I just applied my imagination to the seemingly bizarre situation. His Disclosure book was my first awareness of him, and as I read I was awed - it really seemed that the work would bring highly reputable witnesses into the limelight. He stated time and again that he wanted Congress to subpoena the witnesses, and that they had agreed to this.

Then he ends up working with the Pegasus research consortium, and charging ridiculous fees for pretty much nothing, and disclosure hasn't happened.

I've seen your posts elsewhere Doomsday Rex, and I think you've been a bit presumptuous in places concerning whether people are 'suckers' or 'seekers'.

I'm not interested in following anyone. I'm interested in how and why these high profile witnesses have been so effectively neutralised by Greer's bizarre behaviour, and whether they are still willing to openly testify to the governments of the world as to the truth of their statements, made in 'Disclosure'. If he is just a greedy, manipulative SOB, then he's more culpable than the PTB for the state of modern UFOlogy. As I say in the post before this one, I've not observed him (ie presentations, interviews etc) enough yet to make a judgement of discernment as to his character from the outset. Hence I reserve total judgement on the man for now.

Noah.

reply to post by Kandinsky


As ever, a thought provoking and interesting sceptical mindset from you good sir.

I'd say that I can't comment further on the man himself (and the dishonesty etc you refer to) until I've done some more research. However, I would caution that stories like that commonly grow around people who are in any way concerned with the UFO truth movement. There's many layers of disinfo, manipulation, psychological dissemination of a particular agenda. Greer may have been influenced, he may be a greedy charlatan, he may be a disinfo agent, or a combination of the above. Either way, I'm interested in the witnesses more than the man himself.

I'd suggest that ATS user RedCar could have hit the nail on the head - when he said that Greer successfully drew out a load of high-profile witnesses (who may now be subject to harassment, discrediting etc as a result). They must be kicking themselves for ever agreeing to relate info to the researchers behind 'Disclosure'.

PS - If Greer has plagiarised the work itself, that would explain why his greed seems so out-of-character with the spirit of the original document.

Originally posted by NoahTheSumerian
I'm not a Greer follower.

Never said you were...

Originally posted by NoahTheSumerian
He stated time and again that he wanted Congress to subpoena the witnesses, and that they had agreed to this.

What Greer claims and what is reality are often quite different...

Originally posted by NoahTheSumerian
Then he ends up working with the Pegasus research consortium, and charging ridiculous fees for pretty much nothing, and disclosure hasn't happened.

Originally posted by NoahTheSumerian
I've seen your posts elsewhere Doomsday Rex, and I think you've been a bit presumptuous in places concerning whether people are 'suckers' or 'seekers'.

I have no problem questioning the intelligence of Greer's followers.

Originally posted by NoahTheSumerian
If he is just a greedy, manipulative SOB, then he's more culpable than the PTB for the state of modern UFOlogy.

Yes; forget about the lies supposedly told by the "powers-that-be"; we are more often lied to by the UFO believers and researchers.

Greer is a fraud. And I know that many people, myself included, first thought he was great. I, also, was very excited by The Disclosure Project, although, ever since the beginning, I found myself unconfortable with them selling DVDs at their website. That's always a red flag.

Anyways, when I see people trying to find excuses for Greer's behaviour, trying so very hard to fool themselves into thinking that, maybe, Greer IS for real, I can't help but compare them to a wife who gets beaten by her husband. Many of those wives fool themselves with excuses for the behaviour of their husbands. "Oh, it's my fault. I burned dinner." or "He lost his job, that's why he acted like that" or "He's been lately under a lot of stresss. It's just a phase".

Lady, HE'S A FREAKING COWARD WIFE BEATER!

There is this emotional attachment the wife has, because when she married him, he wasn't like that. So she clings to memories of the past and creates all this fantasies to excuse the inexcusable behavior of her husband.

And that's how I see people who have a hard time letting go of Greer,Richard Hougland and many other charlatans and frauds.

Dude, HE'S A FREAKING FRAUD!

Move on.

OP, what you've brought up in this thread, at least in my opinion, is similar to what seems to have occurred with Alex Jones. They start out like they are sincere and credible, then wind up going cuckoo on everyone and doing inexplicable things that seem to undermine their entire effort.

Greer gets way more publicity than he deserves. And still, y'all keep talking about him. Why? He's a dishonest man. Stop talking about him. Stop going on his website. Just ignore him and eventually he'll start selling used cars or flippin' burgers. Simple.

Here's the problem in general:

Instead of considering the people and ideas that agree with your pre-conceived ideas as "The Truth",
it's better to try finding the real truth, then changing your ideas to match that truth.

Instead of saying "Greer believes what I believe, so he must be speaking the truth", do some real independant research into finding out what the truth is and adjust your beliefs as necessary.

Just because you and Greer think alike, that doesn't mean that your thinking is correct.

Originally posted by FOXMULDER147
Greer gets way more publicity than he deserves. And still, y'all keep talking about him. Why? He's a dishonest man. Stop talking about him. Stop going on his website. Just ignore him and eventually he'll start selling used cars or flippin' burgers. Simple.

That omits the fact that he released some dramatic material with the Disclosure Project. I met him in Toronto, and though I found him a might aloof, you can't deny that he had some genuine traction for a while. Books and DVDs cost money, and I don't mind paying for the real deal.

And I'd laud the man for his energy project. We are certainly not going to see Big Oil and their lapdogs, the Western governments, seek out genuine alternatives to our petroleum addiction. What does distress me is the New Age goop he has been pushing...right down to the obvious shot of a moth in flight being called an alien or spirit or some damn thing.

He is obviously an intelligent man. Could he be a disinfo product? Maybe...it wouldn't be the first time that a new messiah was created expressly to flush out the true believers, and make them feel like fools.

Originally posted by NightGypsy
OP, what you've brought up in this thread, at least in my opinion, is similar to what seems to have occurred with Alex Jones. They start out like they are sincere and credible, then wind up going cuckoo on everyone and doing inexplicable things that seem to undermine their entire effort.

Perhaps because their mission all along had nothing really to do with actual UFOlogy and had everything to do with making money. If that is the case, it wouldn't be surprising if his sincerity seems to change. Perhaps they really don't care if in they undermine the process of UFOlogy while trying to make money.

The best hucksters are the ones who seem sincere about their product at first. Then, when that product ends up being junk, those hucksters have long packed it up for the next town

reply to post by henriquefd


Uh... Dude - when did I say I follow him or support him?

Read carefully and you will see that the main point which has been developed here is that I am concerned about his abuse of the information that was under his control.

As per Doomsday Rex; as per myself; if he is (and I very much suspect he is) a fraud, a man with an agenda from the outset, a charltan and a destructinfomationalist (new word, yay - it means: 'one who designs a means of subverting legitimate information in order to present the accurate information in such a way that it gains much negative attention and becomes disproportionately viewed by the majority as inherently flawed due to association with the person who carried out said agenda') then he is the biggest burden on the legitimate study of UFOlogy that the world has ever seen.

No star for you sunshine; you didn't read the thread properly.

reply to post by FOXMULDER147


Stop trying to influence people. Stop trying to prevent people from using their own minds and checking out the information, because the WITNESSES are the important thing here. Can anyone definitively tell me if there is a concerted effort to track down the original high profile witnesses, and whether they might still be interested in supporting a congressional/ UN inquiry?

People who try to block other people from even LOOKING at the information are literally fulfilling a major role in the process of disinformation - whether they are conscious of it or not.

Discredit the man (or allow his own greed and heinous character to discredit him), or in fact recruit him to trick real witnesses into sharing their stories before completing an agenda to self-degrade one's character and therefore ruin the presentation and any legitimate association of the information. See my post above, re: 'destructinfomationalist'.

Once that's done, allow/ encourage/ pay people to carry out ad hominem attacks in popular forums (legitimately, given the nature of the destructinfomationalist's character and actions), and thus prevent people from considering the ORIGINAL WITNESS INFORMATION in any serious way. The machine marches smoothly onwards.

Fox, I'm disappointed. :down: In the X-Files you would have spotted this a mile away.

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


Read the thread then come back again to make a considered response to my actual points. "SHEESH..."

Why can't people stop the auto-associations? Why can't people read the thread? Why can no-one think for themselves any more?

EDIT TO ADD - who gave a star to the 'Soylent Green is Purple' post...??? You obviously didn't read the thread either... Shame on you both.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


Thanks for providing evidence that people ARE able to think for themselves. Star for you. And I liked your point about the DVDs. The real deal is worth paying for, but in our internet culture we expect everything for free on YouTube.

DISCLAIMER - I am NOT supporting Greer's DVDs or books or whatever. As per my main points in this thread, I am seeking, not buying.

Greer may have had the 'foolish messiah' agenda from the outset. I think we're clarifying what may in fact be going on here, but it requires more research.

reply to post by NoahTheSumerian


Sorry Noah, but I think you are delusional if you believe this. When I first got into Ufology I bought into Greer and the Disclosure project, however since then I've lost all respect for him.

Ask yourself this, since that first Disclosure Press Club conference, what has Greer actually achieved in terms of getting government(s) disclosure? All he has achieved is for himself - the selling of Books, DVD's, and enhancing his reputation so he can talk on the lucrative UFO lecture circuit.

My opinion - he's in it for the money, nothing more and has done damage to the serious study of the UFO phenomenon it has nothing to do with mind programming. Why would the government waste time and effort discrediting him? Greer's done enough of that all by himself.

reply to post by NoahTheSumerian


I read the post. I know Greer's story and history.

Greer is the kind of guy who says all the right things that people want to hear, but only says those things for his own personal gain -- not because he actually believes what he says. He is a snake oil salesman/huckster.

After a while, for people like this, their true colors begin to show. Greer may have originally seemed to care about UFOlogy, but that appears to have all been a ruse now.

In Greer's case, he turned his back on serious UFO research (it seems to me he may have never been serious), and has instead turned his attention to the fringe lunatic UFOers, because that may be where the money is now, and telling them everything they want to hear, -- i.e., he has moved on to the next "town" full of potential customers to bilk.

That's why it appears the Greer was serious and credible at first, but has since become far less credible in the eyes of the people who actually are serious and careful in their UFO research. Unfortunately there are people like this. He was not re-programmed.

Having met Dr. Greer and attending one of his conferences, here is my honest opinion. Please keep in mind that I attended this conference with a very open mind and used my own observations and perceptions to feel out my own truth about Greer:

1) Yes, the man has an ego. He is an almost intimidating figure---tall, well-built, and confident. But is he unapproachable? Not at all. He was completely accessible to everyone at the conference, seemed genuinely glad that people of like-minds had gathered to learn about the alien presence in our Universe, and is incredibly intelligent and has quite a grasp on this subject. He was surprsingly emotional---able to express sadness over the death of his assistant, and seemed to be very close to his team and family members. Rather than leaving this conference feeling suspicious of Greer, my intuition had me feeling rather positive about the experience.

2) I've had readings done by a few of the world's renowned psychics and they were amazingly accurate and worth every penny. Greer's prices are not over the top, in my opinion, when you take into consideration what spiritual advisors, psychics and healers run. A very good reading by a very good pyschic can cost more than $250 an hour. Spending a 3-day weekend with Greer for not more than $600 (not including travel and food) didn't seem like an excess to me. I think his conferences are fairly priced---and not more than a weekend workshop with Neale Donald Walsch, for example, who is a New Age writer.

3) I thought Greer was very knowledgable about his topic and was a consummate speaker. I did not get the feeling that he was hypnotized at all. He seemed to care very deeply about disclosure. Let's face it: The man has a tough job. He gave up his medical career to pursue disclosure and he has to make a living. Given his goals, it is reasonable for him to raise money and it is up to the consumer to decide whether a weekend with him is worth it---or has value. Given the number of people in attendence, I'd say there are quite a few people in the world who believe a weekend with Greer is worth the price. Not only did I enjoy his lectures, but I met some great people there, did some networking and learned quite a bit.

4) In order for disclosure to occur, it is important for the world to have a plethora of leaders, speakers and organizations to bring this about. Trying to discredit each and every person who comes to the table is a bit like working backwards. I agree that it's important not to trust everyone, but why all the nit-picking? Greer is NOT a disinfo agent. You're wasting your time here, which would be better spent helping the disclosure cause instead of trying to work against it.

5) I don't believe I saw any UFO's at this conference, but I didn't go there expecting to have a giant craft hover over me. I went there to learn more about the subject, and between Greer and the rest of the speakers, I came away feeling as though I did. There were a lot of black helicopters circling the area all weekend---especially at night, which was interesting.

reply to post by Welsh_Mulder


Mate - I've said this a few times now, but check out my previous posts for clarification. I was simply making a 'joke' - albeit not beyond the realms of possibility. My serious question was - where are all the witnesses? Are they still actively interested in telling the world what they know? Is Greer a cleverly designed destructinfomationalist? A false messiah for those interested in UFOlogy?

Anyway, I wish everyone would read right through before posting. But, I've done the same on other threads, so I can understand why it gets done.

Edit to add: per your point '4', what gives you the idea I'm working against disclosure? I'm pretty sure I'm seeking it, but then what do I know about my own motivations?

Second edit - On rechecking your post, I'm confused. You appear to have read the thread, but missed the point. How can you tell me that Greer is actively seeking disclosure in a positive and non-ridiculous way. Surely any halfwit can see that by charging $600 for a conference, he is actually preventing many interested parties from being able to network and progress the cause. Surely, the best thing to do would be to pool money together in a transparent common purse, and then rent billboard space in Washington, Paris, London etc, handing out free copies of the Disclosure document. THAT WOULD GET PRIMETIME MEDIA COVERAGE, and the questions would then be asked. Instead, he fakes photos and charges you for the privilege of 'vectoring in' some UFOs.

GIVE ME A BREAK.

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


Okay, point taken and appreciate the considered response. Still - what are your thoughts on the witnesses in the original document? Is there any concerted effort to bring them back into the light of genuine disclosure-seekers, out from the musty old cupboard of ruinous UFOlogy hucksters?

Like I said a moment ago - if it were me, with all those contacts, and all that videotape, I would:


1.) Start a registered charity - the "Campaign for Disclosure - Freedom of Information, Secret Technologies.." or "C-DIS-FIST, for make benefit of Glorious Planet of Mankind" or something like that.

2.) Pool all donations, with books open to external auditors, in a common purse.

3.) Print off thousands of copies of the witness statements / the original copy of "Disclosure", get some volunteers together...

4.) Rent billboard space in Washington, London, Paris, Madrid & Berlin on the same day to run for the period of one week.

5.) The billboard posters would say -

"High Profile figures from world-wide Military, Political and Media institutions attest to the reality of extra-terrestrial contact with humanity. They are willing to testify before the UN, Congress, the Kremlin, and ALL governments under oath.

This information has been kept secret for over 50 years through a genuine but misguided attempt to protect the public. Please see one of our volunteers below who will be happy to hand you a FREE copy of that witness list and their respective testimonies.

We are a registered charity, and no-one is profiting from this endeavour. We simply want your interest in this matter to demonstrate to those in charge of such information and those responsible for setting up international enquiries that in this age of scientific rationality, humanity is ready to be informed...

We do not require that you 'sign up', or 'donate' or any such thing. Our accounts, records of enquiries and network of associates are open to public scrutiny"


6) Watch the media take the bait - watch and respond to the public interest - answer the sceptics, and hopefully witness congressional hearings and the like. Summary? DISCLOSURE.


Anyone like to help me set this up? It all rests on whether we can track down those original witnesses. Short of kidnapping Greer and extracting his info and footage, documents etc, I'm not sure how we'd go about it. And obviously we can't do anything illegal.

Noah.

reply to post by DoomsdayRex


Star for you, and apologies that in my earlier post I made a somewhat underhanded comment with reference to your interpretation of my standpoint.

Okay...so we'll keep pretending my post about attending Greer's conference isn't really there. That's fine.

But arguing over what happened to the witnesses? What about the witnesses? Why don't you call a few of them and see what they're up to?

Here's what happened to the witnesses: They were encouraged to step forward to provide testimony regarding the ET- cover-up. They put their lives and their names on the line. They went to the press conference and the world ignored them.

Nobody showed up.

Nobody cared.

Disclosure didn't happen.

So, now they're just living their lives, like the rest of us.