meat = shorter life

reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd


Woo-Hoo! Somebody already posted beautifully what I was going to say! I eat mostly a carnivorous diet and stay away from grains, sugar, carbs, starches, sweetener, etc. It always amazes me how people who do these studies ignore the carbohydrate factor in diets...

Second Opinions - Barry Groves
Paleo Nutrition - Kurt G Harris
All-Meat Diet - Vilhjalmur Stefansson

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


ROFL

Complex carbohydrates are chains of three or more single sugar molecules linked together. Long chains of sugar molecules are called starches and they serve as the storage form of energy in plants. Branched complex carbohydrates called cellulose form the structural components that give plants their shape. Starches are fairly easy to digest. However, your body doesn't digest cellulose, which is an important component of dietary fiber. Complex carbohydrates are found in fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds and grains. Some examples of foods high in starchy complex carbohydrates include bread, cereal, rice, pasta, potatoes, dry beans, carrots and corn. Green vegetables like green beans, broccoli and spinach contain less starch and more fiber. All grains include starchy carbohydrates. However, whole grains -- such as whole wheat pasta -- are better for you because they also have more fiber.

source

www.hsph.harvard.edu...

reply to post by loner007


What a ridiculous post....

What was the point? Really? Do you even know what you just posted?

Can you please add more to your post to clearify the POINT???

Originally posted by loner007
again you failed to read what I said we are not designed to eat meat of mammals. Maybe i should have made that clearer. Man is mainly a frugivour and eats insects for protein. Insects are high in protein and have no cholestrol they contain all the nutrients as mammal meat but without the side effects of eating mammal meat.

Just thought I'd interupt....but what's so bad about dietary cholesterol?

Originally posted by DreamerOracle
My diet from the age of 6 was trifle bowl full of cornflakes drenched in milk for breakfast, School ICK dinners which I hardly touched, Beans, Bread, Spaghetti, Tomato Soup, Apples and sometimes Faggots or Fish

excuse me? what was that? are you calling vegetarians names? LOL JK i call them that too

Originally posted by DevolutionEvolvd
reply to post by loner007

 

What a ridiculous post....

What was the point? Really? Do you even know what you just posted?

i know what he posted...

Woo-Hoo! Somebody already posted beautifully what I was going to say! I eat mostly a carnivorous diet and stay away from grains, sugar, carbs, starches, sweetener, etc. It always amazes me how people who do these studies ignore the carbohydrate factor in diets...

carbs are not bad for you

If you want to go the lower carb route, try to include some fruits, vegetables, and whole grain carbohydrates every day. They contain a host of vitamins, minerals, and phytonutrients that are essential for good health and that you can't get out of a supplement bottle. And do your heart a favor by choosing healthy fats and proteins to go along with those healthy carbohydrates:

taken from the link i posted above

What really matters is the type of fat you eat. The "bad" fats—saturated and trans fats—increase the risk for certain diseases. The "good" fats—monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats—lower disease risk. The key to a healthy diet is to substitute good fats for bad fats—and to avoid trans fats. Although it is still important to limit the amount of cholesterol you eat, especially if you have diabetes, dietary cholesterol isn't nearly the villain it's been portrayed to be. Cholesterol in the bloodstream is what's most important. And the biggest influence on blood cholesterol level is the mix of fats in your diet—not the amount of cholesterol you eat from food.

source

www.springerlink.com...

Results Both fluorescent AGE (O: 9.9±0.5; V: 10.8±0.7, LO: 13.1±0.8* and SV: 11.6±1.2 ×103 AU), and CML levels (O: 427.1±15.0, V: 514.8±24.6*, LO: 525.7±29.5**, SV: 492.6±18.0* ng/ml) were significantly lower in omnivores than in vegetarians.

....

Originally posted by loner007


carbs are not bad for you

Carbs in moderation maybe, carb based diets can certainly be bad for you.

reply to post by weemadmental


Iron and B12 - Iron comes from plants, but you have to consume the right ones. B12 comes from bacteria on the meat and you need very little of it.

Protein comes from many sources, as does fat.

In all reality, meat consumption is hazardous to your health more for the external factors. It costs too much for people to eat meat every day during at least two meals per day. The Earth cannot sustain such meat production.

Now, if everyone agrees we're omnivores, I think the more carnivorous among us need to make some concessions. You don't have to eat meat every day. You can skip, every other day should be more than enough for you.

reply to post by marg6043

You are correct and I have Flax Seed oil, Olive oil and Primrose to name but a few every day Omega Oils 3 and 6, all Vegetarian. Also eating seeds and nuts as a nibble when peckish. I stick to my guns though as for feeling great for body and mind its Vegetarian all the way for me. I hope to live a very long life fates allowed and why not look after yourself in the process. Metabolism is a key factor heres a example.........My wife eats sugary foods she puts on weight.......I eat sugary foods I lose weight. Its a case of knowing what your body is like and what suits it best and experience is the best teacher.
Longevity the age old goal, I think its the attitude within yourself which then leads to the choices of what is good or bad for your body. Bad choice go out with the trash!
Longlife=Good choices Food/Lifestyles
shortlife=Bad choices I don't make them anymore so none spring to mind sorry.....

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Great material.

I'd like to expound up on your last link there ... en.wikipedia.org...-carbohydrate_diet_of_meat_and_fish

Stefansson is also a figure of considerable interest in dietary circles, especially those with an interest in very low-carbohydrate diets. Stefansson documented the fact that the Inuit diet consisted of about 90% meat and fish; Inuit would often go 6 to 9 months a year eating nothing but meat and fish—essentially, a no-carbohydrate diet. He found that he and his fellow European-descent explorers were also perfectly healthy on such a diet. When medical authorities questioned him on this, he and a fellow explorer agreed to undertake a study under the auspices of the Journal of the American Medical Association to demonstrate that they could eat a 100% meat diet in a closely-observed laboratory setting for the first several weeks, with paid observers for the rest of an entire year. The results were published in the Journal, and both men were perfectly healthy on such a diet, without vitamin supplementation or anything else in their diet except meat and entrails.

reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd


really..... you should have researched it further because you would have found this

According to observational and prospectively designed studies from physicians and nutrition scientists, impaired physical performance is a common but not an obligate result of a low carbohydrate diet or no-carbohydrate diet. However, therapeutic use of ketogenic diets should not require restriction of any physical labor or recreational activity, with the particularity that only anaerobic performance is limited, such as weight lifting. In this case, due to the low glycogen levels in the ketogenic diet, competitive athletes cannot follow this kind of diet. In 1939 two Danish scientists, Christensen and Hansen, made a study of low carbohydrate, moderate carbohydrate and high carbohydrate diets, each one lasting at least one week. At the end of each diet, the subjects' endurance time to exhaustion on a stationery bicycle was measured, and they found that with the low carbohydrate they lasted of 81 minutes, while they were able to ride for 206 minutes after the high carbohydrates diet. In 1946, another experiment was made by Kark, Johnson and Lewis to determine effects of pemmican (a mixture of fat and dry meat) as an emergency ration for infantry troops in winter training in the Canadian Arctic. Results on this study showed that in 3 days, soldiers were unable to complete their assigned tasks. Then, in the 1960's, with the resurgence of biomedical science, new research revealed that fat had limited utility as fuel for high intensity exercise, and that humans are physically impaired if they are given a low carbohydrate or no-carbohydrate diet

Source

Originally posted by loner007


i know what he posted...

Who's "he"?

carbs are not bad for you

If you want to go the lower carb route, try to include some fruits, vegetables, and whole grain carbohydrates every day. They contain a host of vitamins, minerals, and phytonutrients that are essential for good health and that you can't get out of a supplement bottle. And do your heart a favor by choosing healthy fats and proteins to go along with those healthy carbohydrates:

taken from the link i posted above

Vegetables? As long as they're not starchy, great. Fruits? Fine. Whole Grain....NO. If you guys want to keep worshipping the china project, at least get your facts straight. WHEAT correlated most with heart disease and myocardial infarction independent of other factors.

The problems associated with grain consumption are directly caused by gluten and...blood sugar.

Postprandial blood glucose levels remain high for hours after consuming wheat. This increases glycation, a risk factor for heart disease and aging, and it also increases the number LDL while decreasing the size, a huge risk factor for heart disease.

What really matters is the type of fat you eat. The "bad" fats—saturated and trans fats—increase the risk for certain diseases. The "good" fats—monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats—lower disease risk. The key to a healthy diet is to substitute good fats for bad fats—and to avoid trans fats. Although it is still important to limit the amount of cholesterol you eat, especially if you have diabetes, dietary cholesterol isn't nearly the villain it's been portrayed to be. Cholesterol in the bloodstream is what's most important. And the biggest influence on blood cholesterol level is the mix of fats in your diet—not the amount of cholesterol you eat from food.

Well, I must say, that's mostly factual. Dietary cholesterol isn't a villain, and neither is dietary saturated fat. What IS a villain is Dietary Carbohydrates.....because it's CARBS that have worst effect on blood lipids through their effects on blood glucose...(and because, well, fructose is metabolized in the liver, the byproduct is VLDL and then LDL).

Saturated fats have an acute effect on triglycerides that eventually level out....carbs, on the other hand, cause high fasting triglycerides and LDL pattern B (small and dense).

reply to post by loner007


First of all, there is a big difference between a ketogenic diet and a low-carb diet. Secondly, there is a difference sedentary and active lifestyles. There's no doubt that an athlete or a physically active person needs carbohydrates.

Can you please stop googling for articles to support your points? That's not research. You've already posted articles that completely contradict your both you and other articles you've referenced.

I found a very interesting article:

In conclusion

* vegetarians have low mortality compared with the general population
* much of this benefit is attributable to non-dietary lifestyle factors such as the avoidance of smoking and a high socio-economic status
* vegetarians have similar mortality to comparable non-vegetarians, although a vegetarian diet may confer an additional 1-2 years of life (at least among US Adventists). Of course, life expectancy is not the only measure of health status, and other studies have suggested that vegetarians may enjoy a number of health benefits including being generally slimmer and having lower blood cholesterol levels than non-vegetarians. So, should you be a vegetarian for health reasons? When asked this question, the Nobel-prize winning author Isaac Bashevis Singer replied: "Yes, for the health of the chicken "

Source

reply to post by DreamerOracle


Most vegetarians also enjoy depression and malnutrition and osteoporosis and higher cancer rates. YAY!

reply to post by Ong Bak


are u suggesting vegetarians are immortals?

I can understand if they live longer, but when you get old what is the point, you will be like a baby again, can't walk, can't talk, can't eat properly, can't hear etc..

We all have specific times to live, other than that I got nothing else to say.

reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd


First off whilst it correct what you are saying about wheat but lets clear one small detail up first shall we.
Which wheat are we talking about as as far I am aware there are two types wholegrain and refined wheat. Now what I am finding is that this tests are looking at refined wheat. They take out all the good bits and what is left is called the endosperm and it is this that is causing most of the problem. Gluten is the composite of two proteins called gliadin and glutenin. These exist, conjoined with starch, in the endosperm of some grass-related grains, notably wheat, rye, and barley. SO in other words eat the bran and germ of wheat and you be ok.

and regarding carbs i give you this link
and I quote

It appears that the presumably adverse impact of high-CHO diets on blood lipids is limited primarily to short-term clinical trials in which the research subjects' calorie intake is artificially manipulated (ie, controlled by researchers) and the high-CHO diet is composed largely of sugar and other refined CHOs with little fiber. This is the Stanford model. The flaw in their experimental design was all explained to the Stanford group in a letter to the editor.[19] Unfortunately, Dr. Reaven's (point man for the Stanford group) replied, "In an effort to make results meaningful, we maintained energy intake and output constant throughout the study." Clearly he missed my main criticism of their experimental design.[21] Apparently Dr. Reaven and other academic researchers just don't get it. These and other researchers should compare a high-CHO diet consisting largely of natural foods high in fiber, like fruits, vegetables, whole grains, and beans, with a similar diet to which olive oil or other unsaturated oils are added. They should also allow their research subjects to consume both diets ad libitum (rather than imposing artificial controls on how much people eat). Then they would likely find that a VLFNV diet does not produce adverse changes in blood lipids that increase the risk of CAD as they imply. Indeed, any changes in blood lipids that such a diet causes must be viewed as favorable simply because such a diet has been proven to reverse atherosclerosis. High-fat diets have not been shown to regress atherosclerosis and are usually associated with its progression.

Originally posted by Ong Bak

Originally posted by weemadmental
what a lot of nonsense this is, all you need to know is that the teeth in your mouth have evolved to allow us to eat both meat and veg, there are lots of different factors in life that stop us from reaching old age. if you look at vegans and vegetarians you will see that they need to consume extra vitamins and minerals not found in plants to stay healthy, if they dont they dont have a long life, you just have to take things in moderation

Wee Mad

was unaware that teeth evolve.
also, wheres teh study taht shows any of this? seems like your just using your own empircal "evidence" and fact.
and exactly what vitamins and minerals are there in meat that a vegetarian wont be able to get without taking a pill?

We have K-9s smart guy. Look in your mouth at the pointed teeth in the front. They are used specifically to tear meat. Look at a shark's mouth - all pointed teeth. Animals with teeth equipped to eat the foods that are available in their environment, the foods they need to survive, are more likely to survive and reproduce. This is called evolution. Why don't you educate yourself rather than asking people to give you studies that you will disregard?

The truly hypocritical thing is that the only reason you're sitting here is because your ancestors survived an ice age eating mammoth.

reply to post by andrewh7


why dont u practise what you preach. the teeth arguement has already been talked about it a few pages back..but no you just have to jump the gun say what you going to say without even checking.