Obama Birth Certificate; 'Document allegedly obtained in Kenya sent to every member of Congress'

All idiotic...By the way,no english speaking country in the 1800's or 1900's would EVER use just 2 numbers of the year.....

Originally posted by wcitizen
The most salient point for me is not even whether he is American, although of course that is extremely important. It is the fact that he is hiding the details of his birth certificate and everything about his past from the American public, whom he is supposed to serve and who are his employer and who pay his wages.

Why do you think you have a right to the information on his BC or any of the information from his past that you suspect exists? He's an American citizen and has the right to be secure in his papers, just as the rest of us do. Why do you think he's obligated to share every detail of his past with you?

Originally posted by wcitizen
Well, my friend, the truth is outlandish.

What "truth" is that?

reply to post by Arbitrageur


Why does the hospital matter? And why do you think you have the right to know which hospital he was born in?

reply to post by wcitizen


It's not a "partial" BC, it's a short form, the information on which is taken directly from the long form.

Originally posted by wcitizen
The point I keep trying to make is that he hasn't disclosed full details about his past or his birth...

And you think you have a right to know all the details of his birth?

The point I am making is that he has gone to considerable effort and expense to hide details of his past.

Sorry, man. That's not true. You're making claims you cannot support. THey are rumors started by people who don't want him in office and you're buying it without even seeing proof because it suits your agenda.

Why don't the American public find that unacceptable?

As an American citizen, I respect the rights of other citizens. And I fight for them. Fourth Amendment. Read it.

Why should the President be hiding his details from the people?

Exercising one's rights is not "hiding".

reply to post by RightyRight


That's what the short form looks like. Here is another one. And in my thread about birth certificates, a member from Hawaii said hers was the same, too, although she never posted a picture.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

As far as the long form, yes, there are some on the Internet, too. They look different than the short form and have more information and details. Google it.

If he is an American citizen, why has he spent millions to conceal his records when all this could be dismissed very easily - by releasing his records, it's a no brainer people, wake up for gods sake...

And why this -

www.liveleak.com...

reply to post by RightyRight


I did link to the wrong post! Sorry.

Correct Post:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Actually Hawaii Homelands used to have a link up saying basically that the Hawaii short form birth certificate wasn't good enough, and they really wanted to see the long form birth certificate, that's as close as I've seen to what you're asking about. They apparently changed their policy of requesting the long form, and took that obsolete link down. But even the updated link still says they prefer the long form:

www.obamaconspiracy.org...

Seems it is a difference between a "certificate" and a "certification." The certification used to validate another document brought in by someone seeking a more official HI document. The "certificate" was the actual birth certificate issued by the hospital.

Therefore, a "certificate" would be indisputable proof, while a "certification" will always be subject to scrutiny, because it could have been issued for a number of reasons. Although, officially now, HI accepts both forms equally. It wasn't this way a short while ago, it changed after the scrutiny started.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
www.abovetopsecret.com...

How about this post on the last page? From the State of HI stating that the shortform is not acceptable. It has only recently been changed following all the chaos from Obama.

I see nothing in that post (or any links in this thread) that proves the State of Hawaii short form is not acceptable.

Originally posted by RightyRight
You have to also understand that he is an example of the kinds of things that still lurk quietly in the backs of people's minds. My parents would never dare say any of the above things but my mom has said on occasion things like "He speaks so well for a black man." Obviously there is still something going on in the back of a mind that considers blacks and whites equals, only blacks have to struggle more to speak English.

When I say this is a racist issue, that's exactly what I mean. You explained that very well. I don't think most BC demanders are "outwardly racist", but there are things lurking in the back of their minds that they don't even realize.

Originally posted by DEEZNUTZ
I love these birther threads, better than reality TV.

I know... I'm too weak to stay away!

I can't stop laughing this whole debate has gotten so rediculous. The whole of government is in on this secret now?

And Hillary Clinton is the mafia. You heard it here, folks!

reply to post by getreadyalready


I think you got the wrong link again. You linked to the first page in this thread, which doesn't contain the excerpt that you quoted.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
That's what the short form looks like. Here is another one. And in my thread about birth certificates, a member from Hawaii said hers was the same, too, although she never posted a picture.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

As far as the long form, yes, there are some on the Internet, too. They look different than the short form and have more information and details. Google it.

Please, no disrespect. I think you misunderstood my second question about this. I see 3 distinct links to what one should look like. They all look the same to me. I can believe that is it.

Wcitizen then goes on to refer to it as partial or not full or something of that sort. I asked if anyone disputed that the posted image was what one should look like. No one said a thing. I thought that either meant that no one cared enough to respond or no one disputed it. Wcitizens claim about it not being full leads me to understand he does not agree that is what a current legal HI birth certificate should look like.

I can only come to one conclusion. Some of you agree about what one should look like and have been able to provide an example of that agreed upon image. Others do not agree that is what a current legal birth certificate should look like so I am still waiting for them to come up with a different picture then.

I have to go with you guys that keep posting the same image over again. It works for me.

So either someone needs to provide a different image for what one should look like or please explain to me why they would claim his is not "full"

Originally posted by Mythkiller
If he is an American citizen, why has he spent millions to conceal his records

Please detail the millions he has spent, if you cannot why lie about him spending millions.

and why this

That has been explained several times here before. Anyway, Obama has nothing to do with that trial.

Why do birthers keep making stupid claims, then refuse to back them up then make the same claim again?

My theory? Is it runs it's course, until he is out of the POTUS-ship. The "truth" comes out afterward. The Americonned people will be as they have been conditioned to be, ohhh ho hum who cares, he's out of office now. Leading to Oh look , we had a a non-citizen POTUS , and he didn't blow the country up. Wow how cool OK time to change the Constitution. Setting up the next non-citizen to be POTUS. Anyone care to guess? ....The US will get 'Terminated" hint hint .

reply to post by getreadyalready


And the link that goes to Obama crimes says this:

Holdouts, pointed to an obsolete web page on the Department of Hawaii Homelands web site that said the “long form” was preferable for them. However, reflecting the fact that long forms are no longer available, the DHHL web site has been updated and now says:

...that they accept either.

LINK

[edit on 9/7/2010 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by RightyRight

 

I did link to the wrong post! Sorry.

Correct Post:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Actually Hawaii Homelands used to have a link up saying basically that the Hawaii short form birth certificate wasn't good enough, and they really wanted to see the long form birth certificate, that's as close as I've seen to what you're asking about. They apparently changed their policy of requesting the long form, and took that obsolete link down. But even the updated link still says they prefer the long form:

www.obamaconspiracy.org...

Seems it is a difference between a "certificate" and a "certification." The certification used to validate another document brought in by someone seeking a more official HI document. The "certificate" was the actual birth certificate issued by the hospital.

Therefore, a "certificate" would be indisputable proof, while a "certification" will always be subject to scrutiny, because it could have been issued for a number of reasons. Although, officially now, HI accepts both forms equally. It wasn't this way a short while ago, it changed after the scrutiny started.

That is just some thing that someone said. That is it? I thought there was a link to some kind of proof of something? I am confused because there are various titles that are used at the top of birth certificates depending on the state and when it was issued. Those titles vary between "certificate" and "certification" and then with "of birth" and/or "of live birth."

According to the state of Hawaii, the short form is accepted for all kinds of reasons as ID because according to them, that is what is issued. Can you please post a link to some proof of this claim?

Can you also present some evidence that the difference of "ion" matters?

Originally posted by RightyRight
Please, no disrespect. I think you misunderstood my second question about this.

Sorry. Here are some long form Hawaii BC:

Link 1

Link 2 (right)

The information on the short form is taken directly from the long form BC. It's all computerized.

reply to post by RightyRight


The original post wasn't mine, I just thought it was the most informative one on the "truther" side. Here, since I can't link to it correctly I am quoting it instead.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur

Originally posted by wcitizen
My skeptical side says they have gone to so much trouble and expense to hide his full birth certificate, surely they would have been able to make this one 'disappear' too, if it is, indeed, the smoking gun.

I suspect it's a hoax, but have they already made it disappear? From the link you posted, I click on the birth certificate image and it takes me to this page:

www.thepostemail.com...

Then I click on the link there, and it takes me to this url:

www.thepostemail.com...

Which says the image cannot be displayed because it contains errors, is anyone else getting this?

Originally posted by cindyremains

Originally posted by sheepslayer247
reply to post by cindyremains

 

I think what you need to understand is that much of the information many of us seek to know about Obama is being suppressed.

Please explain what information you seek.
How is it being suppressed?

I'd like to know specifically where Obama was born, which I know for all the recent presidents with the exception of Obama.


Richard Nixon - 37th President: 1969-1974

en.wikipedia.org...

Richard Nixon was born on January 9, 1913, to Francis A. Nixon and Hannah Milhous Nixon in a house his father had built in Yorba Linda, California.

Gerald R. Ford, 38th President: 1974-1977

en.wikipedia.org...

Ford was born as Leslie Lynch King, Jr. on July 14, 1913, at 3202 Woolworth Avenue in Omaha, Nebraska,

Carter was the first president born in a hospital:


Jimmy Carter, 39th President: 1977-1981

www.waymarking.com...

James Earl "Jimmy" Carter, Jr., the 39th President of the United States, was born in Wise Hospital (which is now the Lillian G. Carter Nursing Center) in Plains, Georgia.

Ronald W. Reagan, 40th President: 1981-1989

en.wikipedia.org...

Ronald Reagan was born in an apartment above the local bank building in Tampico, Illinois, on February 6, 1911

George H.W. Bush, 41st President: 1989-1993

en.wikipedia.org...

George Herbert Walker Bush was born at 173 Adams Street in Milton, Massachusetts[2] on June 12, 1924.

William J. Clinton, 42nd President: 1993-2001

www.nps.gov...

William Jefferson Clinton, the 42nd president of the United States, was born at the Julia Chester Hospital on the 19th of August 1946 in the small town of Hope, Arkansas

George W. Bush, 43rd President: 2001-2009

www.imdb.com...

Born in Yale New Haven Hospital - New Haven, CT

In fact, if Obama WAS born in a hospital (was he?), he would be the 4th president born in a hospital. If he WASN'T born in a hospital, then there are only 3 presidents born in a hospital, as listed above. So a little transparency from Obama would be nice since we have it from the other presidents regarding their birthplace, and Obama after all did promise transparency. If he was born at Kapi'olani, why not say so? Nobody seems to know where he was born. Kapiolani claimed Obama was born there at one point and then they apparently withdrew their claim.

Regarding how the information is being suppressed, just look at the statement made by Chiyome Fukino:

abcnews.go.com...

"I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawai'i State Department of Health verifying Barrack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen.

What original vital records? Is this a reference to a long form birth certificate the state has on file for Obama?

So-called "birthers" denounce the notion that Obama was born in Kapiolani Maternity & Gynecological Hospital in Honolulu on Aug. 4, 1961, despite court rulings and statements by Fukino and Hawaii's Republican governor, Linda Lingle.

That's odd, but I don't really see that many people claiming Obama was born at Kapi'olani because nobody seems to know where he was born, exactly. And Fukino's statement does nothing to clear up where in Hawaii the original vital records show Obama was born. Since we know the actual birthplace of all the other presidents I don't think it's unfair to know it for Obama too.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by getreadyalready
Even when Hawaii's record keepers have admitted that it is fairly simple for someone not born in Hawaii to get an Hawaiian "short-form" birth certificate?

I haven't see such a statement from Hawaii's record keepers. Got a link?

Actually Hawaii Homelands used to have a link up saying basically that the Hawaii short form birth certificate wasn't good enough, and they really wanted to see the long form birth certificate, that's as close as I've seen to what you're asking about. They apparently changed their policy of requesting the long form, and took that obsolete link down. But even the updated link still says they prefer the long form:

www.obamaconspiracy.org...

Holdouts, pointed to an obsolete web page on the Department of Hawaii Homelands web site that said the “long form” was preferable for them. However, reflecting the fact that long forms are no longer available, the DHHL web site has been updated and now says:

“The Department of Hawaiian Home Lands accepts both Certificates of Live Birth (original birth certificate) and Certifications of Live Birth because they are official government records documenting an individual’s birth. The Certificate of Live Birth generally has more information which is useful for genealogical purposes as compared to the Certification of Live Birth which is a computer-generated printout that provides specific details of a person’s birth. Although original birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth) are preferred for their greater detail, the State Department of Health (DOH) no longer issues Certificates of Live Birth. When a request is made for a copy of a birth certificate, the DOH issues a Certification of Live Birth.”
hawaii.gov...

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by RightyRight

 

The original post wasn't mine, I just thought it was the most informative one on the "truther" side. Here, since I can't link to it correctly I am quoting it instead.

I am no longer sure you are trying to quote what you were talking about. I still do not see anything showing that Hawaii does not accept the short form that they themselves only issue.

Are you purposely trying to just confuse us more?

[edit on 9/7/10 by Afterall]

reply to post by getreadyalready


And NOTHING in there says that the short form is not acceptable. It says what I posted above, that the long form was preferable, but since they are no longer available, they will take either long or short form.

Originally posted by Kaiju666
My theory? Is it runs it's course, until he is out of the POTUS-ship. The "truth" comes out afterward. The Americonned people will be as they have been conditioned to be, ohhh ho hum who cares, he's out of office now. Leading to Oh look , we had a a non-citizen POTUS , and he didn't blow the country up. Wow how cool OK time to change the Constitution. Setting up the next non-citizen to be POTUS. Anyone care to guess? ....The US will get 'Terminated" hint hint .

Interesting conspiracy theories.

Honestly - - - do you really think this government is going to "serve up" and discredit the first black president?

Here is a statute from HI that states the difference between a certificate and a certification.

“[§338-17.8] Certificates for children born out of State.
(a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.
(b) Proof of legal residency shall be submitted to the director of health in any manner that the director shall deem appropriate. The director of health may also adopt any rules pursuant to chapter 91 that he or she may deem necessary or proper to prevent fraudulent applications for birth certificates and to require any further information or proof of events necessary for completion of a birth certificate.
(c) The fee for each application for registration shall be established by rule adopted pursuant to chapter 91. [L 1982, c 182, §1]”

And here is how the supposedly defunct link from the state's own website used to read!!

QUOTE: “The Certification of Live Birth is a legal document, but it is TOTALLY INADEQUATE when it comes to proving an individual was born in Hawaii.

The State of Hawaii DOES NOT EVEN ACCEPT the Certification of Live Birth as valid proof that an individual was born in Hawaii.

The Hawaii Department of Homelands, which administers programs to encourage property ownership for native Hawaiians states the following on its website.

“In order to process your application, DHHL utilizes information that is found ONLY on the original Certificate of Live Birth, which is either black or green. This is a more complete record of your birth than the Certification of Live Birth(a computer-generated printout). Submitting the original Certificate of Live Birth will save you time and money since the computer-generated Certification requires additional verification by DHHL.“

freedomedium.com...

[edit on 7-9-2010 by getreadyalready]

Do you guys not realize what is going on? is a way your being "programmed" to dislike Obama thus finding and supporting reasons for him not being president.

What did he do? he exposed corrupted officals and corperate sponsers that run america for what is really is, and all he is trying to do is show the people. So what is the best way to bad talk him? get the people to hate him by making up some # about his birth place.

Personally i dont know where is was born, nor do i care, you dont need to be an american born citizen to be a president, you just need to serve the people *let me repeat that* SERVE THE PEOPLE.

Trying to open your eyes to whats going on around you, only to be covered in more lies, "the best way to keep a fire going? burn the firefighter" if you dont get it, then i cant help you

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by getreadyalready

 

And NOTHING in there says that the short form is not acceptable. It says what I posted above, that the long form was preferable, but since they are no longer available, they will take either long or short form.

Maybe its as simple as - they ran out of long forms.

Maybe the printer made an error and they had to be reprinted.

Stuff like that really does happen.

Originally posted by Anthony1138
you dont need to be an american born citizen to be a president, you just need to serve the people *let me repeat that* SERVE THE PEOPLE.

You are VERY mistaken! Our Constitution says that the president MUST be a Natural-born Citizen of the US.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


I think you still do not quite understand what I am actually asking here and I apologize if that is my fault. I appreciate all the effort to supply these links, I really do. You have answered my question more than enough.

I get what you think one should looke like. I understand that you and other "non birthers" agree on what a Hawaiin birth certificate should look like.

I am not asking for more information on that. I am asking people such as Wcitizen who claim it is not a full birth certificate to show me what it is they think one is supposed to look like.

I understand what you think. I see some people do not agree so I would like to know what they actually think.