not sure where to post this...

Originally posted by justyc
I shall, however, keep the Afghanistan pics as it is my personal opinion that that both wars are linked.

So you admit right there that you tried passing off images of Afghanistan as Iraq? And you want me to pick apart your video for more instances?

Believe me your videos credibility has already been destroyed and pointing that out on a case by case basis would only drag it through the mud further.

You can keep expressing your own montage of images and opinions concerning the war but dont try and represent them as factual reporting.

As I stated, if you are willing to go to the trouble of pointing out exactly which pictures are from the West Bank I shall go to the trouble of tracking down exactly where those pictures were taken & even by who & replace them if it turns out they were, which will take me considerably longer but I'm willing to do that if you are. & I have stated that in my opinion there is a connection between the war in Afghanistan & Iraq so I will leave an any pictures that you can prove were taken in Afghanistan. I would even be willing to admit here that I was wrong with including pictures of the West Bank and not even delete the post i made admitting that i was wrong, as you did, (twice).

It seems to give you great pleasure in pointing something out that you appear unwilling to back up yourself yet you remain strangley silent in regard to the points i have made or the proof to back up my claims, so if what you say has some basis in fact then put up or shut up as your own views appear only to be based on having a dig at the messenger rather than the message.

Up to the challenge are you or will you just pour more of your scorn at me?

Originally posted by Agent47

Originally posted by justyc
I shall, however, keep the Afghanistan pics as it is my personal opinion that that both wars are linked.

So you admit right there that you tried passing off images of Afghanistan as Iraq? And you want me to pick apart your video for more instances?

Believe me your videos credibility has already been destroyed and pointing that out on a case by case basis would only drag it through the mud further.

You can keep expressing your own montage of images and opinions concerning the war but dont try and represent them as factual reporting.

At what point does justyc state that this all about Iraq? Looks to me that the point of the video is death and destruction caused by Bush, while the American media pretends everything's ok. I think it makes it's point in a manner that moves one.

Also, why does the video lack credibility? It's seems perfectly credible as a representation of war and Bush culpability. Notice I said representation and not "credible evidence". All the evidence to back up the argument of corruption in the Bush camp coupled with atrocities performed by both sides, is to be found all over the net.

This aint it.

I don't think justyc ever tried to pass it off as factual reporting.. You're just being *slightly* facecious, no?



[edit on 23-6-2004 by manc4]

Think I'll stop looking at my watch now. I rest my case

Originally posted by justyc
Think I'll stop looking at my watch now. I rest my case

I dont need to try and make you see the truth. Im not your wet nurse. More than one person has come in and agreed with the fact you stole images and tried passign them off as Iraq.

Im not bound to your childish challenges. Some of us do have lives outside of crying about the war.

Originally posted by Agent47

I dont need to try and make you see the truth. Im not your wet nurse. More than one person has come in and agreed with the fact you stole images and tried passign them off as Iraq.

Im not bound to your childish challenges. Some of us do have lives outside of crying about the war.

So you're not prepared to point out one single picture that you claim is of the West Bank yet you can still find time to reply with another cop-out posting attacking me, ignoring my questions or the points I have made to you or the facts that you claim I make up (and you dont even have the courage to keep your 2 posts admitting that I proved your accusation against me wrong). Instead you choose to ignore them. I spent a considerable amount of time searching specifically for Iraq pictures - can I be blamed if it turns out some are not?

But again I say to you, point out the ones you claim are from the West Bank & I will verify if they are & correct them if it turns out to be so, because some of us do have better things to do with our lives - its called educating ouselves and I thank the internet for it. Its amazing what you can find out if only you are prepared to make the effort. Perhaps you should try it sometime.

Originally posted by justyc
But again I say to you, point out the ones you claim are from the West Bank & I will verify if they are & correct them if it turns out to be so, because some of us do have better things to do with our lives - its called educating ouselves and I thank the internet for it. Its amazing what you can find out if only you are prepared to make the effort. Perhaps you should try it sometime.

And how do you expect me to do that without the images or sources for your images. Seriously we arent all pyschic here. If you provided me your sources for your little video then I would go out of my way to help you document them. My eye told me some of those images were off and you even proved that yourself. My eye made it look familiar to the west bank, Im sorry I cant instantly draw up sources because they are your images and I dont know how you found them or where you did.

And on a side note even admin came in here and said you were passing off false images of Iraq. If there was any attacks or belittling going on dont you think I would have been punished for it?


[edit on 24-6-2004 by Agent47]

Originally posted by Banshee

Good eye, Agent.
I was wondering if anyone was going to pick up on those inconsistencies.

If that is the admin you mention to then perhaps Banshee would be so kind as to point out which inconsistancies he/she was referring to as the reply doesnt appear to state exactly which & so might only be referring to the photoshopped book & the planes.

My eye told me some of those images were off and you even proved that yourself. My eye made it look familiar to the west bank, Im sorry I cant instantly draw up sources because they are your images and I dont know how you found them or where you did.

I dont believe anything has been proved yet which appears to be the point of this discussion.

Im sorry I cant instantly draw up sources because they are your images and I dont know how you found them or where you did.

All the images are available on the internet if you try various terms of search in google pictures along the lines of 'iraq abuse' iraq war' etc. However, if you are really offering to help track down the origin of the pics then I shall spend the next few evenings going though the vast amount of pics I collected and matching them to the many sites that I sourced them from and perhaps together we can then find out where they were taken, when and even by whom. I hope you realise what a mammoth task will be.
Personally, I like a challenge

Originally posted by justyc

All the images are available on the internet if you try various terms of search in google pictures along the lines of 'iraq abuse' iraq war' etc. However, if you are really offering to help track down the origin of the pics then I shall spend the next few evenings going though the vast amount of pics I collected and matching them to the many sites that I sourced them from and perhaps together we can then find out where they were taken, when and even by whom. I hope you realise what a mammoth task will be.
Personally, I like a challenge

You know I really feel that this would be good and I think we got off to the wrong foot about this.

Hi Im Agent47 and I would be glad to help you track down where you got those photos from and index them.

I think you misinterpreted my aim as to descredit your opinions and video, and this is not my goal.

Heres to a challenge

Hi Agent47, nice to meet you. I will hold you to your word that your only intention was to point out what may or may not be unintentionally included pics from the West Bank. I much prefer healthy debate to mudslinging and look forward to discussing issues with you. Peoples personal opinions vary but they should also be respected. As Voltaire wrote once - "I disagree with what you have to say but will fight to the death to protect your right to say it."

My only intention in making the swf was to put my thoughts into words & pictures. If some of those pictures turn out to be innacurate then I will be the first to admit it & correct any errors & also apologise for including them, but I specifically searched for pics from Iraq.

Where would you like to start? Would you like to trace every single pic I used or only certain ones? If only certain ones, could you describe which & at what point in time with the music they appear & once you verify that they are the pics you refer to I can trace where i got them from.

I need to get some sleep now as I've had a very long & tiring day at work, but look forward to starting afresh with you tomorrow night.

Originally posted by justyc
Where would you like to start? Would you like to trace every single pic I used or only certain ones? If only certain ones, could you describe which & at what point in time with the music they appear & once you verify that they are the pics you refer to I can trace where i got them from.

I need to get some sleep now as I've had a very long & tiring day at work, but look forward to starting afresh with you tomorrow night.

Well if you feel a burden to go back and document your images then I will help but if you would rather not then I think thats ok too. Your justification for making this video has been stated several times by yourself and other members of the forum and I think that anyone who views it understands your goal.

I really took out frustrations from a rather ugly bout with anti war folks when I ran into your video and I would like to apologize again. If you want to go back and document for your own personal satisfaction or need then I will gladly help, but I dont want you to have to go out of your way for me especially after the mudslinging disrespect I paid you earlier. I too have to work but I really want this to end right.

If you still feel inclined to search then the pics I would research are the earlier ones of people in coffins and the photos of planes dropping bombs and those bombs exploding. I cant say much about the deformed children as I did not reach that portion of the video.

This reminds me of one of the comics on Last Comic Standing during the first season. During the season finale he talked about how he supported the war because "$2.22 for gas is TOO TOO TOO MUCH!" I remember being disgusted as people stood up to cheer for him, because I was thinking "This man just said he wants people to be murdered and injured just so that he doesn't have to pay as much for gasoline. WHat the hell is wrong with you people?!"

I am not even going to comment on whether I support the war or not, because the Iraq war is not the issue. What Justyc made with FLASH is, to me, (predominantly) about the fact that people are being murdered and having their lives ruined every day, and a lot of the time people don't even acknowledge it or even realize it. It's not the war, but war in general and our awareness of it that is the issue here.

The pictures showing birth deformities are not photoshopped. However, they are not all from Iraq either. I have seen many of them in my embryology textbook and I am sure the rest can be found in similar texts.

That being said, you did a good job making the presentation. Very moving.