Islam and America

I found a couple of good articles I figured I'd share and see what discussion they drum up.

Overall, Muslim Americans are, well, American. They have similar levels of career and educational attainment as the general American public; their political beliefs are just as varied as the general public; and their typical level of religious devotion is on par with that of many other religious groups, the research shows.

And my particular favorite line:

"The idea is if you just group everybody together that's a Muslim by affiliation and then pretend like one characteristic defines them, well that's as silly as saying that all blacks can run fast,"

"If we're going to face our nation's challenges in a truly democratic way, we need to move past the fear that Muslim Americans are un-American so we can bring them into the national dialogue," Read said.

[email protected]

And one about a study done about those who believe that Obama is a Muslim.

In one study, 64 college students (33 Obama supporters and the rest John McCain supporters) had to decide whether or not a string of letters flashed on a computer screen made up a real word by pushing one of two keys. Before that string of letters came up, either "McCain" or "Obama" flashed on the screen, followed by either a non-word, neutral word, Muslim-related word (such as "Islam") or senility-related word (such as "dementia").

[email protected]

Please please please read the articles before posting.

[edit on 2-9-2010 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

Maybe if some of the predominantly Muslim Middle Eastern Countries allowed
Christian Churches,Jewish Temples, Buddist Temples, Hindu Temples and
the like in their countries without the threat of persecution or violence they
would be more welcome to do the same in other countries.

reply to post by Wildmanimal


And what exactly can Muslim Americans do to change those things? Can you change Vactican policy?

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


Well I'm sure they could try.

reply to post by Wildmanimal


Ah, so you commonly go about telling others what they should do in their countries? Or at least feel you should? It's no different then expecting you to change Vatican policy if you are Christian.

[edit on 2-9-2010 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

Originally posted by Wildmanimal
Maybe if some of the predominantly Muslim Middle Eastern Countries allowed
Christian Churches,Jewish Temples, Buddist Temples, Hindu Temples and
the like in their countries without the threat of persecution or violence they
would be more welcome to do the same in other countries.

Really, that has nothing at all to do with the OP and all to do with intolerance.

I could comprehend the OPs point quite easily, about lumping people under one perception and how all that does is lead to intolerance and bigotry.
I'm sure there are Muslim Americans who are as American as chopped cherry trees and apple pie, just as there are Christian Americans who aren't.

Interestingly too, there are threats against Muslim Americans, and persecution.

What a sad, strange world it is.

reply to post by aorAki


Exactly.
What amazes me about people. Especially the ones that lump others as such get exceedingly pissed off when it is done to them. Sounds rather hypocritical if you ask me.

reply to post by Wildmanimal


Most of the Muslim world is tolerant towards other religions.

Out of 48 countries with 50% or higher Muslim population only 3 don't allow Churches by law. Somalia also prevents them practically, but the country is effectively an anarchy.

There are 12 countries in the world with a Muslim population of 98% or higher. The four countries that don't allow churches are part of this group meaning that two thirds even of this group do allow churches.

Even using 99% as our figure, less than half don't allow churches (4 out of 9).

Also, Muslims ruled India for ~800 years and allowed Hinduism and other religions to be practice. Today, India is still predominantly Hindu. Historically and even today, there is a lot of tolerance among Muslims for other religions.

By the way, I'm a Muslim American. Do you honestly think I'm going to spend my time focusing on another country's policies or my own country?

reply to post by muftanan


Really folks, I'm just stating a point of view. It is all over the news these days.
I would bet a good deal of funding for Mosques in America come from those
for Countries that don't allow churches in their countries. I find that troublesome. I am in no way lumping all of you together. I am just stating
an honest point of view. Already you have labeled me a bigot.
No Thanks. I regret even replying to this thread now.

reply to post by Wildmanimal


Or how about you uphold the values your country was founded on? who the hell cares if 'insert country here' does this or that, it's a juvenile and ridiculous argument...anyone who puts more than 5 seconds of thought in to it will understand why...

reply to post by Wildmanimal


You may have been just stating a point of view but you stated it as your point of view. If it is not then why did you not state it as not your view? Especially in light of what you added about mosque funding. And how is it not a bigoted point of view?

[edit on 2-9-2010 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

reply to post by Solomons


More insults...and attacks.

I must have hit a truthful nerve.

Facts are facts, you can gang up and insult me all you want.

reply to post by Wildmanimal


What?

Islam= Religion

America=Country

So why on earth are you talking about what other countries do and what their values are and not the values that America holds in regards to religion? It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, if you could extrapolate as to why you feel it does then by all means go ahead...

[edit on 2-9-2010 by Solomons]

reply to post by Wildmanimal


Oh. So NOW those are your viewpoints? Funny how you attempted to disavow them at one point and are now calling them facts.
And what facts? All you have provided are opinions and judgement calls.

Answer my questions please. Before you go off on how persecuted you feel you are.


[edit on 2-9-2010 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

reply to post by Solomons


There was a quote in the OP's original thread about moving past the "Fear"
that Muslim Americans are "un- American". I believe that this is due to the
fact that many not all (as this would be hasty generalization) Muslims are
intolerant of other religions. That does include Muslim Americans. Just as there
are some intolerant Christian or Jewish Americans,etc. My original reply was to give an insight as to why this may be. Furthermore, I value the freedom of Religion in this country, and believe that it should be a beacon to other countries around the world who would so easily take advantage of our freedoms, but not apply those freedoms to their own countries. And yes,
I believe it is the responsibility of Muslim Americans to do whatever they can
to promote this tolerance abroad in any way, shape, or form possible to countries in the Middle East that have yet to evolve to this level.

reply to post by Wildmanimal


The study/provable testable facts tends to disagree.
2nd line.

[edit on 2-9-2010 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


How did I attempt to disavow? Honestly, I don't catch your drift. I entered
this thread on a casual level stating an opinion. Little did I realize how sensitive
you were. Ready to strike, ready for an argument, ready to ridicule.
I do enjoy a healthy debate, so I have taken the time to explain to you
in a mature and unemotional manner as best to my ability.

reply to post by Wildmanimal


So I take it you are not going to answer my questions? I asked them respectably enough and you continue to avoid them. Instead going on about what you percieve to be my faults and feeding some sort of need to cast yourself as the victim of persecution. While notable at least mentioning that others should be persecuted. I could rehash them if you would like and will actually answer them.
Disavow.

Main Entry: dis·avow
Pronunciation: \ˌdis-ə-ˈvau̇\
Function: transitive verb
Etymology: Middle English desavowen, from Anglo-French desavouer, from des- dis- + avouer to avow
Date: 14th century
1
: to deny responsibility for : repudiate
2
: to refuse to acknowledge or accept : disclaim
— dis·avow·able\-ə-bəl\ adjective
— dis·avow·al\-ˈvau̇(-ə)l\ noun

SOURCE@Merriam Webster.com



[edit on 2-9-2010 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


I think I have made myself clear. I am growing bored with you semantic
microscope. Feel free to rehash your rhetoric for the rest of your friends.
Thanks for the interesting discussion.

reply to post by Wildmanimal


No actually you haven't, except perhaps in telling me I'm out to get you because I'm a bad person who likes to fight. *Funny coming from a stranger.* But feel free to retreat now seeing as you won't be answering my simple questions.