Does earth belong to "the Devil"?

reply to post by jmdewey60


What do you mean how did it ever exist before. Salvation through redemtion came about when Jesus died on the cross and deafeated satan and gained the keys to hell and Hades. What are you talking about?

Originally posted by I Want To Believe
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

What do you mean how did it ever exist before. Salvation through redemption came about when Jesus died on the cross and defeated satan and gained the keys to hell and Hades. What are you talking about?

Are you putting a fine distinction on the term Salvation? If you are, then it may be that after the disciples formulated a Gospel of Jesus, then there was a mechanism that was describable for how exactly Israel was redeemed, but it really isn't like that. What I mean is that the terminology concerning national deliverance was spiritualised to take in all people as potential recipients of salvation. There was no salvation like what was probably expected, of an idyllic world where people are living in the Garden of Eden.
I think it may have been that before Jesus, people kind of realized that the promises of the prophets were not going to be fulfilled in their lifetime but may have believed that God could raise them when it did happen, if they were deserving of such an honor by doing good and believing in God to the exclusion of all others.
Jesus brought a revelation concerning how the ransom would be paid for the redemption. And I suppose it was also revealed how the Kingdom of the next age would come about and who would be in charge. The kingdom he spoke of and described, where the saved would live, has not yet come about. The kingdom when work, and sacrifice, and longing cease, and the rewards are handed out.
What we have is the promise, and the surety for the promise, which is the gift of the Holy Spirit which helps us get through the crises which is our lives until Kingdom Come.

[edit on 4-9-2010 by jmdewey60]

Originally posted by jmdewey60

Originally posted by I Want To Believe
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

What do you mean how did it ever exist before. Salvation through redemption came about when Jesus died on the cross and defeated satan and gained the keys to hell and Hades. What are you talking about?

Are you putting a fine distinction on the term Salvation? If you are, then it may be that after the disciples formulated a Gospel of Jesus, then there was a mechanism that was describable for how exactly Israel was redeemed, but it really isn't like that. What I mean is that the terminology concerning national deliverance was spiritualised to take in all people as potential recipients of salvation. There was no salvation like what was probably expected, of an idyllic world where people are living in the Garden of Eden.
I think it may have been that before Jesus, people kind of realized that the promises of the prophets were not going to be fulfilled in their lifetime but may have believed that God could raise them when it did happen, if they were deserving of such an honor by doing good and believing in God to the exclusion of all others.
Jesus brought a revelation concerning how the ransom would be paid for the redemption. And I suppose it was also revealed how the Kingdom of the next age would come about and who would be in charge. The kingdom he spoke of and described, where the saved would live, has not yet come about. The kingdom when work, and sacrifice, and longing cease, and the rewards are handed out.
What we have is the promise, and the surety for the promise, which is the gift of the Holy Spirit which helps us get through the crises which is our lives until Kingdom Come.

[edit on 4-9-2010 by jmdewey60]

Salvation is defined as preservation or deliverence from the power or penalty of sin. Since i am not entirely sure what to make of the rest of your post i dont know how to respond. I am not following your logic i guess you could say. Since i am a simple man put it to me simply and stop beating around the bush please.

If god created the universe and the earth and Adam and Eve, and Satan for that matter, are you not essentially a creation of god? Or the son of god for that matter?

I apologize if this question is out of order but i really wanted to know.

reply to post by onequestion


We are all children in Gods family no matter of race,religion or gender. We were all created equal and we are all equally loved by God no matter who we are or where we came from.

reply to post by I Want To Believe


OK, let me make it really simple for you, who is in control of the current world systems in 2010?

Jesus or the Devil?

reply to post by I Want To Believe
The rich man asked Jesus, What good thing can I do to have everlasting life?
The exchange was unsatisfactory to Jesus in its outcome, causing him to make a remark about the difficulty of getting into the Next Age Kingdom.
His disciples were astonished enough to cry out, Then who can be saved! Privately they explained what they had given up and What will be our destiny?
Jesus said that they would be judges with thrones. He equated everlasting life and being "saved" and a future otherworldly type environment.
Right now, being saved is having your name saved on a list for being called up for the first resurrection, the one that is for the people who will not be called up for the later resurrection to judgement.
Right now, Jesus is busy in the courts of Heaven solidifying the list, in preparation for the big call-up. Jesus is performing spiritual duties in a holy place that have everlasting consequences.
Paul said first Jesus was a natural man made of dust and became spiritual and of heaven. We are to do the same thing, to concern ourselves with heaven, not the dust.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


As far as i know men are in control of the current world systems and besides God is always in control. The world systems are not the subject of debate here anyways the world itself is and who has authority over it. Arguing about this isnt going to get us anywhere anyways so really there is no point to it. I believe what i believe and you believe what you believe and we will just have to wait to see who is right. We will know the truth and the truth will set us free. We will have to agree to disagree on this one my friend. Besides doctrine,dogma and theology arent what is really important. What is really important is the fulfilling of the Great Commission and being about the Fathers business. That is all that matters. Also why does your signature say ''you dont know the power of the dark side''. You must be a hardcore star wars fan. Sit vis vobiscum

[edit on 4-9-2010 by I Want To Believe]

reply to post by I Want To Believe

Besides doctrine,dogma and theology arent what is really important.

Actually, it is, at least that is my opinion.
War is against God. Anyone not speaking out against it, are part of it, and share in the punishment, as spoken of in Revelation, about those gathered, who will be destroyed.
War is how Satan uses his influence to try to demonstrate his mastery over mankind. If he can get the whole world involved in one giant war, he will think he rules it.

[edit on 4-9-2010 by jmdewey60]

reply to post by jmdewey60


That is exactly the problem my friend. Christians have become too concerned with who is right and wrong that they have forgotten the most important thing to do preach the Gospel and make disciples. There needs to be unity not division. Ultimately theology is worthless its temporal winning souls to Christ is the most important it is eternal. You cant call yourself a christian unless you fulfill the Great Commision. If you do you are a liar. Let us be about the Fathers business.

reply to post by I Want To Believe


Ultimately it is true, God does have the final say on matters, and he will step in at times otherwise the collective of worshipers would be totally eradicated by Satan and his demons.
But this current world system favors those that don't want to serve God and follow his biblical principals, Satan can and does wield extra power, at this time, thus the mess we see in the world today. Jesus Christ full kingly power over the earth doesn't begin until the thousand year reign starts, if it was as you say, we would already be enjoying not only the spiritual benefits of Jesus ransom but the physical ones too, but it hasn't happened yet.

As for my Latin signature, yes it is a Star Wars phrase, but it also applies in a real way to the invisible dark side forces facing humanity today, because so many people are totally unaware of them.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33

. . .a Star Wars phrase, but it also applies in a real way to the invisible dark side forces facing humanity. . .

Jeffrey Grupp and Ed Walker put up a good radio show on that last night, discussing the philosophical background of the Star Wars movies. They both are interested in warning people about the religion of the Illuminate, which they call Dark Ecstasy.
www.antimatterzonenetwork.com...

Concerning my earlier comment, I realize that Armageddon should be understood symbolically as Satan's ultimate affront against God, by persecuting those who cling to godly worship, and refuse to bow down to the image that Satan sets before the world. But, that being said, the fact that the writer of Revelation uses the imagery of war to describe the culminating act of evil, should also inform us of the true nature of all human warfare. To me, resisting evil would include not giving our acquiescence to rulers who think war is a good means to an end, and to ends that are morally dubious at best.


[edit on 7-9-2010 by jmdewey60]

reply to post by I Want To Believe


How can anyone effectively preech a gospel they don't understand? I have heard enough people talking about what they have no idea about to know that none of us know anything. Let me refrase that, most of us.

reply to post by onequestion


Jesus started out with an option presented to him, to go the way of the world, to get to his goal (as offered by Satan in the wilderness), or to go the way of Heaven to get to where he wanted. On one hand was something concrete, such as the vision of the cities of Earth and a wonderful looking being claiming to have all power, and on the other hand, religious teachings that say if you do what the spirit tells your heart what is right, and a book of lore to give illustrations of using that ability which is given freely by God, to overcome.
Jesus chose to be an overcomer (to overcome the tendency to go with what seems more real at the moment), and to follow what may seem to be intangible. To follow his example, one would do this because in your heart, you make God your king, despite the claims of many, in your face, claiming that position for themselves.
I think of the Gospel as the announcement that there is a kingdom that bridges the gap between the material, and what can only be imagined, or felt inside your soul. Jesus is our forerunner to show us the way and to be Lord, when the way seems cloudy to us and we stumble and want to let discouragement overtake us, and give up.

reply to post by Gaspode


satan rules the world,mans greatest and only test.