Four Israelis killed in West Bank

Odds are the dude who killed the soldiers was a plant by The IDF and Mossad as an attempt to derail the latest in a long list of attempted peace negoations with the latest incarnation taking place now.

Does anyone find it fishy that this occured the day the US has ended the Iraqi Theatre?

I beleive in this case that Israel attacked itself to try and gain the world's sympathy as the nation who is historically known as the "Nation who cried wolf one too many times" is no longer believable. Black operation in full employment right here live and in living colour.

I care not for any sorry and lame excuse Israel tries to claim here as the world finally knows the truth.

reply to post by Ben81

l agree with you Ben. two days before the Peace talks. ls it any wonder that people are questioning the validity of this awful attack. There could be any number of reasons that this attack happened. Maybe it is a False Flag, lets face it, it certainly wouldnt be the first one they have tried to pull off. Or, maybe it was some palistinians that went through the horrors of the 22 day war and had to watch their families and friends have phosphorus bombs rain down on them and had to look on helplessly as they died in agony. Or perhaps it was a father who entered his house to find his baby shot at close range in its cot by ldf soldiers, who knows. All l do know is that it is very convenient that it has happened at this particular moment in time. Peace starchild.

reply to post by thedeadtruth


Part Maori, part Caucasian; fact is your ARE a New Zealander and you should know your history of both WW1 and WW2 and the ANZACs quite well or don't they teach that in NZ schools anymore?

My uncle I speak of lives in the Taranaki area (we won't go in to the specifics) and he is one of the last remaining ANZACs you have. His father, my grandfather, also an ANZAC fought in both great wars (WW1 he fought the Ottomans in Palestine) and they believed (as did Winston Churchill) in the re-establishment of Israel as a Jewish homeland. Did you catch that phase "RE-ESTABLISHMENT" of Israel? You perceive the Stern Gang as typical of Israeli nature. This is not the case, not even close to it. I don't condone what the Urguns did, they were cold blooded terrorists and I would place them in the same boat as Hamas. They not only murdered British soldiers but also Arabs and even their own people including 2 ships full of Jewish refugees from Europe.

You have many misconceptions of Israel and the Jewish people in general. The Jews took what was theirs and what was'nt was brought fair and square off the Arabs. So rich you are in knowledge...tell us what became of Jewish property and assets in Arab lands where Jews once resided and were forced out? There was enough Jewish money and assets in Arab lands to buy all of Israel 5 times over. Where is it now? Confiscated off Jews by Arab Govts just like the Nazis stole all the Jewish assets of German Jews (not to mention the Poliks, Dutch etc did likewise)! Like many members on these anti-Israel threads, you have what I deem SELECTIVE MEMORY LOSS!!!

There was never an Israel without the Jews or their ancestors, the Hebrews. There was ALWAYS a Jewish presence in Israel. Show me one era, just one where there were no Jews living in Israel? And yes there were always Arabs but not too many can claim their roots to Israel even 200 years ago let alone 150 years ago. So where did they suddenly come from? Just like the Fijian Indians who were brought to Fiji by the British Colonials from India to cut sugar cane and now the Indians think they can lay claim to land of the Native Fijians! That should shed some light for reasoning on trivia night when you discuss Jews and Israel to your buddies.

It concerns me how anti-semitism is rife among the Maori but quite a different story among the Polynesians.

Israel are among our best allies, without them, God help us all.

I think you mis-understand me.

I believe in nationalism for Jews in Israel. I would personally fight for that right.

But Zionism must be stopped. It is an evil idea and has evil followers. Moderates must take power by a democratic process. Until then I consider a majority of Israelis to be evil Zionists who want Zionists in charge. .

Only my logical conclusion I am afraid. As I have no finger in this pie and am detached emotionally and religiously from the debate. .

Originally posted by thedeadtruth


But Zionism must be stopped. It is an evil idea and has evil followers. Moderates must take power by a democratic process. Until then I consider a majority of Israelis to be evil Zionists who want Zionists in charge. .

can you please enlighten me and explain what exactly is Zionism?
I hear it a lot in threads but always wondered what is this Zionist idea?

Originally posted by ProdigalSon
can you please enlighten me and explain what exactly is Zionism?
I hear it a lot in threads but always wondered what is this Zionist idea?

This is Zionism
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d01712da6da5.jpg[/atsimg]

In the most basic laymen terms, it's expansion, expansion over land that doesn't belong to them.

Imagine if your home is bulldozed so other people could live there because they believed god promised them this land.
You fight back and guess what they call you.

reply to post by thedeadtruth


You believe in the nationalism of Israel as a Jewish homeland? Without the Zionists there would be NO Jewish homeland. Then what? Wait for another Jewish Holocaust (God forbid!) ?

In my view if the Palestinians can't get their # together then perhaps they should consider a move to Trans Jordan or any other Arab nation that would have them. Name just one Arab nation that likes Palestinians? Every Middle Eastern country knows most of the Palestinians are nothing but trouble. I know what, lets move the Palestinians to Iraq, there's no legit Govt there so we can watch from a distance the survival of the fittest?

So many here on this thread selectively FORGET that Palestinians are treated much much worse in Lebanon than they are in Israel. Only just a week ago Lebanon has now allowed Palestinians green cards to work - not just any work - but menial and labouring jobs at best. The Lebs fell short of allowing them citizenship and in to their universities to get a decent education, they are not allowed in to public service, the medical profession or military etc. Israeli Arabs are the luckiest Arabs in the Middle East, believe you me.

I have personally considered the possibility of a bi-lingual state in Israel but that comes with some serious complications for both peoples (perhaps a consideration 100 years from now?) as does a two separate nations side by side within the borders of Israel. As for Gaza, well thats already an abortion waiting to happen.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Gee, imagine Palestinians bulldozing Palestinian homes....unthinkable, right? Wrong! Just happened in Gaza some weeks back.

Go get a life and learn some REAL history.

I have a question. Are the Jewish buying the land from the Palestinians or are they simply stealing it? If the Jewish are BUYING the property I cannot see what the fuss is about. If they are STEALING the land than I can completely understand what the problem is.

Buying - Stealing. Two separate things.

So what is going on? Buying or Stealing? Anyone know who does not have a dog in this fight?

reply to post by idonotcollectstamps


Large chunks of land was purchased by the Jews off Arabs but the 3rd generation of the Arab sellers decided it was sold too cheaply and now wants it back. LOL

Originally posted by idonotcollectstamps
I have a question. Are the Jewish buying the land from the Palestinians or are they simply stealing it?
Buying - Stealing. Two separate things.

Stealing.

for example

Gideon Levy, a leading liberal Israeli commentator, backed the actors' stance. "Yes, there is a difference between legitimate, sovereign Israel and the areas of its occupation," he wrote in today's Haaretz, which first reported the story. ". "Yes, there is a moral difference between appearing here and appearing there in the heart of an illegal settlement … built on a plot of stolen land, in a performance designed to help settlers pass their time pleasantly, while surrounded by people who have been deprived of all their rights."

Elvis Costello cancelled concerts in Israel, citing the "intimidation, humiliation or much worse on Palestinian civilians in the name of national security". The Pixies, Gil Scott Heron, Santana and Klaxons have also withdrawn from performances.

www.guardian.co.uk...

Just google illegal settlements and you'll get loads of results.
These are illegal settlements under international law and blockading a state, be it either west bank or gaza, is an act of war.

So basically they are maitaining an act of war but expect zero retalliation, and if there is retalliation they call the rebels terrorists.

That's what's going on.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


You think Israelis give a stuff whether or not these "musicians" cancel their concerts in Israel or not? They don't care and neither do I.

reply to post by bluemirage5

When you say " God help us all " Which God are you referring to? ls it the one who loves all humanity or is there another one l havent heard about.? The God l know loves and respects All living souls on this planet irrespective of their race or culture. The God l know of would never condone the the senseless killing of innocents in his name by any culture against another. What is the name of the God of the lsraelis called? l am not being facesious, l would really like to know the name of the God who would condone the slaughter of millions of his children, sacrifice his children for his chosen culture, a god that would condone the torture and killing of people who dared to imply that they may be wrong about anything.my God is love. Which one is it you are taking of. The one you want to " save us ALL"?. l know in the book of Genesis chater 6 v2 that God had more than one son maybe lts one of them. Peace starchild

reply to post by star child


Sorry mate, we differ on our Gods!!! Perhaps one day you'll take the time out and read very carefully the Torah in all it's intirity - preferably in Hebrew so that you understand our God, His words and how He really works. The Torah is NOT the same as the Christian Old and New Bibles.

I don't know about that other stuff you speak of but then the Quran is mind moggling too.

Please excuse my ignorance, no pun intended, but when priests and whatnot speak of Jesus (born a Jew and lived as a Jew) as giving his life for you, does that mean you condone his death and that of a human being?

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by idonotcollectstamps

 

Large chunks of land was purchased by the Jews off Arabs but the 3rd generation of the Arab sellers decided it was sold too cheaply and now wants it back. LOL

You certainly are earning your keep today.

Are they continuing to buy the land? Because if they were that would look a whole better to the rest of the world than their current idea of illegal settlements. See that word ILLEGAL in there? Yeah, that means not legal. It means they aren't allowed to do it. Now let's do some critical thinking, since you seem to think you are the ONLY one around here that is capable of it (I have have yet to see you do ANY, simply spouting off ridiculous notions). If they were BUYING the land from the Palestinians, it would be a LEGAL transaction. Hmmm...something doesn't make sense here, if it was LEGAL, they wouldn't be calling them ILLEGAL settlements. So what could they possibly be doing that would make them ILLEGAL? Maybe they are forcibly removing the inhabitants of the buildings and land and moving their own people in. They wouldn't do that though would they?





Oops, I guess maybe they do. Huh? What do you know. It doesn't look like the Israelis BOUGHT that land. So much for that little bit of critical thinking you did. Although I suppose destroying their water supplies would surely drive down the property value.

Maybe these people were just out real estate shopping and the current owners got a little pissed off about it.

reply to post by Rook1545


Nah.....tell you what......

Bring me a Palestinian with a legit land deed to prove a block of land is his and I'll believe you!

Haven't read the thread. But I do have a question..

Why would Hamas do this now? At this point in the "talks" to get Talks going again.

It doesn't make any sense to me.

reply to post by Tayesin


Because the PA and Fatah have shown good behaviour for the past few years (for the most part) while Hamas have been naughty little boys.

Originally posted by Tayesin
Haven't read the thread. But I do have a question..

Why would Hamas do this now? At this point in the "talks" to get Talks going again.

It doesn't make any sense to me.

It will never make sense
but let me ask you a question

Imagine Hamas was a puppet
How much sense does it make now?

I am not saying he's a puppet, i'm just saying it would make alot of sense if he was.

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by Rook1545

 

Nah.....tell you what......

Bring me a Palestinian with a legit land deed to prove a block of land is his and I'll believe you!

Produce a legit israelite land deed to prove that tenance to a mere inch of land is lawful and I'll believe you!

The Torah saying that 3,000 years ago hebrews lived there doesn't count.