The Lockheed X-22A Anti-Gravity Fighter Disc

KPI, I believe this is a first but I agree with every word of that. *goes for a lie down*

I am far from a believer that antigravity is a technology that has been harnessed by mankind. Strangely enough my better half who works in the defense industry does believe that there is adequate evidence for vehicles that manipulate gravity, but I will believe it when I see it.
But just for giggles I'll play devil's advocate:

Originally posted by ch1466
Blah, blah, blah.

What /possible/ military advantage could be so extreme as to justify any 'secret program' which permitted this, almost 15 years after the fall of the Berlin wall (and the Cold War ended)?

Seeing how the entire physical paradigm of this planet revolves around gravity then the manipulation of gravity as a weapon could have a profound impact on the occupants of this planet.
Gravity weapon applications could range from the pinpoint squishing of one adversary to crushing an entire city, causing earthquakes or creating tsunamis aimed at a particular land mass, etc.
Proliferation of technology like that could be far worse than proliferation of nuclear weapons and thus potentially worse than "Hitler and the death camps" or "the Enola Gay and Hiroshima".

There are no magic death rays. No flying saucers (do these ships have anti-inertial 'damper' systems btw? If not, none of the fantastical accelerations and multi-axis maneuvers they are accredited with would be possible if men were aboard).

Of course we are talking about something that is shear fantasy, but IF there were a vehicle that could propel itself by manipulating gravity, why couldn't that same vehicle be able to manipulate gravity within the "cockpit" thus eliminating the potential of splattering the human occupant into mush when conducting high "g" maneuvers.

Because if it was true and they had 'reserved' these technologies or capabilities for their own use, they would have commited the greatest act of treason against mankind since Hitler and the Death Camps. Or the Enola Gay and Hiroshima.

And since when has the military not resorted to crimes against humanity to accomplish it's goals?
By your own statements you obviously don't think that those who call the shots in the higher echelons of the military are righteous and noble in in their endeavors, and yet you think that they would not suppress information that could help humanity. Where is your consistency?

[edit on 2/7/2006 by bios]

To answer the point about accelerations within a time-space warping machine.

It would be creating a bubble around itself, and then moving time and space around this bubble.

It is easier viewed as moving the objective to it rather than moving to the objective. The pilot would experience no g-loading whatsoever.




As for whether such a machine exists?...


PLEASE!!! Some people on here need a real good dose of reality. To manipulate space time in such a manner as is proposed here would probably require more power than all the power plants on the planet currently produced.

Think of the energy within the sun, and how much it manipulates space time for a quick reality check.

This is what I've dreamed of hearing about since I was a kid. If this proves out to be true, it would appear that we have perhaps back enginnered some of the so called fake UFO's that never crashed. God bless those who work in the Black Projects section!

[edit on 7-2-2006 by FLYIN HIGH]

Bios,

>>
I am far from a believer that antigravity is a technology that has been harnessed by mankind.
>>

Then read the signs and stopping feeding the dumb animals.

>>
Seeing how the entire physical paradigm of this planet revolves around gravity then the manipulation of gravity as a weapon could have a profound impact on the occupants of this planet.
Gravity weapon applications could range from the pinpoint squishing of one adversary to crushing an entire city, causing earthquakes or creating tsunamis aimed at a particular land mass, etc.
Proliferation of technology like that could be far worse than proliferation of nuclear weapons and thus potentially worse than "Hitler and the death camps" or "the Enola Gay and Hiroshima".
>>

Easy technology that can be readily replicated tends to be easily developed whether or not you are high-tech in the accepted sense. It's much more likely that the sheer physics of any such device requires orders of magnitude improvements in BOTH the base engineering and production designs as well as empowerment.

You want to create a situation in which these weapons you 'potentially' describe are used as assassin's tools? You make sure that nobody knows what to look for. That it's 'all a surprise'.

You want to avoid the social inequities of a global civilization based on slave labor 'trade', you enable the baseline of ALL mercantile efforts: cheap transport. For it is in the transit phase that value is generated and destroyed by lag and effort. Profit and developmental expansion of opportunities for same only occur when 'the spice flows' as a function of creating a greater harmonized availability of resources for all.

>>
Of course we are talking about something that is shear fantasy, but IF there were a vehicle that could propel itself by manipulating gravity, why couldn't that same vehicle be able to manipulate gravity within the "cockpit" thus eliminating the potential of splattering the human occupant into mush when conducting high "g" maneuvers.
>>

Gravity is an omniwave phenomenon, it doesn't deal with mass so much as space. Even if you go off on a Neutrino tangent as Conserved Momentum Stealer (deal breaker on linear motion through BD) the fact remains that Mass as a macro interactive form doesn't need to invoke /gravity/ to exert or alter it's vector state as an independent motion.

Nor is gravity apt to be so strong (given the size of the world we sit on and it's relative effect on oursevles) as a local force as to be able to defeat inertia on it's own.

i.e. Gravity doesn't 'stick' to any one mass or axes of motion, it is implied as the total interaction between greater and lesser bodies. Where's the interaction between a pilot, his relatively loosely packed guts and the chair he's supposed to be anchored to? Are you telling me you can control ALL microinertial vectors or just that you only tear cell walls in certain places, if the guy is locked down prone and 'horizontal' to the implied axes of motion?

Baaaah.

>>
And since when has the military not resorted to crimes against humanity to accomplish it's goals?
By your own statements you obviously don't think that those who call the shots in the higher echelons of the military are righteous and noble in in their endeavors, and yet you think that they would not suppress information that could help humanity. Where is your consistency?
>>

$$$$. It makes more sense to exploit something than to hold it in reserve. Since the principle exertion of power is not for it's own sake (especially when withheld as a statifying entropic force) but to effect other elements of social existence, there has to be more gained than lost here and I don't see it.

CONCLUSION:
The obvious analogue is 9/11. Disrupt a mass with another mass and you must literally fill the void created by the resulting entry-exit 'wound' by virtue of relative displacement of local accelerations 'in all axes' of building kinetic motion (potentialism as a chaotic force). This in turn means that not only must you be able to vary gravitational wave phenomenon through the empty 'space' and each relative structural acceleration mode adjoining to it. But also through the structures contiguous mass effects /on each other/.

I don't see it happening as an electromagnetic (circuits made and broken) separation of phenomenon. Any more than I do as a flat-earth 'levelling' mechanism for terrorists or nation states.

And yet, if the technology was there to cause it to be avoided (we have always known that some high rising structure would fall due to accident, engineering faux pax, construction misassembly, unplanned fatigue or environmental reasons), I don't see the gain inherent to NOT 'yanking on the bootstrap' to avoid some 400 billion dollars worth of wasted effort in Iraq.

i.e. More Money (making opportunities) can be created by building up than tearing down. If this were not true, our own system of Cold War politick would never have succeeded in providing us an alternative to open conflict.


KPl.

For your information:the particle beams that may have been seen were lasers beamed from recon craft high altitude (many of them having spherical radar discs ! ).These Lasers were used to target buildings to an acurracy of less than 1/2 a meter,The F117a stealth bombers air to ground missles would then lock on to the laser spot .

I think this whole thing is a lot of bull!!

If the Americans really had this so called anti grav discoid with particle beam weapons which can also penetrate deep into into the earth, why would they even think of using nukes to destroy Iran's underground nuclear power plants?

Why not use this so called esoteric weapon system instead?
If not, why the heck are they making such stuff? Where and when and against whom are they gonna use it? And why hide this technology?

If the government had this technology, they would not declassify it until we had a replacement for the x-22A. And what could possibly replace it, besides an improved version of the same thing. No wonder it has been classified for over 50 years, maybe even 60? ? ?

Ok, much as we would all love this to be the disclosure we have all been waiting for....I don't buy it !!!
Yes there have been multiple eye witness accounts of disc shaped flying vehicles in and around Iraq, but.........to admit to reverse engineered technology would be to to admit that Roswell, and the like, were real.
This would be too much of a Quantum Leap for our Government who have gone to great lengths to cover up anything purporting to be extraterrestrial in origin.
I suspect that because there have been so many recent accounts of UFOs that the Government, faced with overwhelming accounts of flying discs had to come up with a plausible story.
The "Weather Balloon" story is getting very old and stale now. So much easier to say that these are a new kind of aircraft. Think on this.....remember how much secrecy there was around the F-117 Stealth Fighter. The rumors were prolific for years! Even then our Government denied such a plane existed. Do you really think they would declare that UFOs were for real? Disclosure is unlikely in any event!

Maybe our Extraterrestrial visitors are visiting to watch these stupid little pink beings on the eve of their own Nuclear destruction. Now from an ET point of view that has to be the Greatest Show in this sector of the Milky Way. For sure, if I was an ET I would buy a ticket....wouldn't you?

Originally posted by Pleiadian Recon
Ok, much as we would all love this to be the disclosure we have all been waiting for....I don't buy it !!!
Yes there have been multiple eye witness accounts of disc shaped flying vehicles in and around Iraq, but.........to admit to reverse engineered technology would be to to admit that Roswell, and the like, were real.
This would be too much of a Quantum Leap for our Government who have gone to great lengths to cover up anything purporting to be extraterrestrial in origin.
I suspect that because there have been so many recent accounts of UFOs that the Government, faced with overwhelming accounts of flying discs had to come up with a plausible story.
The "Weather Balloon" story is getting very old and stale now. So much easier to say that these are a new kind of aircraft. Think on this.....remember how much secrecy there was around the F-117 Stealth Fighter. The rumors were prolific for years! Even then our Government denied such a plane existed. Do you really think they would declare that UFOs were for real? Disclosure is unlikely in any event!

Maybe our Extraterrestrial visitors are visiting to watch these stupid little pink beings on the eve of their own Nuclear destruction. Now from an ET point of view that has to be the Greatest Show in this sector of the Milky Way. For sure, if I was an ET I would buy a ticket....wouldn't you?

Where is your evidence... You can't just think here... I understand your point, but that doesn't really proove anything...

....and I thought this was a thinking person's forum.

Anyway, I am unclear what you want me to "proove" Ok, this is easy to prove by default. If I am wrong then we will all see America's proud display of their latest technology at the Military Air Shows this year, just as occurred when the F-117 was finally announced.

If that does not happen then we, and you, will know that it was not for real, unless, of course our ET friends decide to do fly-pasts as part of this years display team!

So let's see what happens. When I see the Anti grav disc flying in formation with the Thunderbird Team, believe me, I will be the first to eat humble pie all week long.....Until then my diet will be varied

Originally posted by Pleiadian Recon

So let's see what happens. When I see the Anti grav disc flying in formation with the Thunderbird Team, believe me, I will be the first to eat humble pie all week long.....Until then my diet will be varied

Darn! You've stolen the words I wanted to say!!!
But, save yourself the excrutiating pain of anticipation. This will never happen and so you'll be having plenty of varied diet till kingdom come!
NO humble pies for you!!

Well, Ok look anyone can be wrong. I admit it.
I scoured the USAF archives and look what I found!

Would anyone like to donate a large bottle of tomato ketchup to help with the Humble Pie?

members.cox.net...

members.cox.net...

Yum yum...humble pie is Gooood!

[edit on 16-4-2006 by Pleiadian Recon]

Bwh a ha ha hah ah a.

Laughable post.

Originally posted by kilcoo316
To answer the point about accelerations within a time-space warping machine.

It would be creating a bubble around itself, and then moving time and space around this bubble.

It is easier viewed as moving the objective to it rather than moving to the objective. The pilot would experience no g-loading whatsoever.




As for whether such a machine exists?...

PLEASE!!! Some people on here need a real good dose of reality. To manipulate space time in such a manner as is proposed here would probably require more power than all the power plants on the planet currently produced.

Think of the energy within the sun, and how much it manipulates space time for a quick reality check.

That's some wonderul ignorance you have there. It's not against the laws of physics and beleive it or not there are power sources in the universe that can easily produce that much power. Although we are maing it and the process is extremely slow the source may be from extraterrestrials.

[edit on 22-5-2006 by urmomma158]

Originally posted by urmomma158
That's some wonderul ignorance you have there.

It's not against the laws of physics and beleive it or not there are power sources in the universe that can easily produce that much power. Although we are maing it and the process is extremely slow the source may be from extraterrestrials.

[edit on 22-5-2006 by urmomma158]

Ignorance... that I have?

Listen son, star wars doesn't exist, the starship enterprise doesn't exist either.


Of course there are power sources in the universe that can do it - look at a black hole. But we are not at anything like the technogical maturity to play with black holes. ET is not dropping in for a cup of coffee and to help out the people Area 51 make a stargate or a anti-gravity fighter. Now go grow up.


As I posted yesterday, the height of our gravity manipulation research is this:
www.esa.int...

It demonstrates that a superconductive gyroscope is capable of generating a powerful gravitomagnetic field, and is therefore the gravitational counterpart of the magnetic coil. Although just 100 millionths of the acceleration due to the Earth’s gravitational field, the measured field is a surprising one hundred million trillion times larger than Einstein’s General Relativity predicts.

^^^^ Or so you think because you find it absurd.I was speaking of dark.anti matter. ET's do exist alright kilcoo. the probability of life in the universe are approximately 1,000 and 1,000,000,000 planets ok. There is a habitable solar system near us (zeta reticuli). It's also old enough. Plus how would you explain ancient heiroglyphics of people coming from space(Egyptians,Aztecs,Mayans etc etc etc). If you want go the aliens and ufo section to learn more.There have been many odd sightings around AREA 51 you know.

[edit on 22-5-2006 by urmomma158]

Dark matter is a theory... a theory that "fills the gap" in our lack of understanding of gravitational forces.

Current thoughts on what consitutes dark matter:
- burned out stars
- the planets rotating around burned out stars
- neutrinos


Since all have positive gravity (to "fill the gap"), and aren't exactly exotic - they won't provide a magical solution.

Anti-matter is supposed to have positive (conventional) mass, again, no magical gravity manipulation there.




ET exists (and drops in regularly)... Aye, whatever, can I have some of what your smoking?

Zeta Reticuli being "habitable" is soley in the ufology domain, after some quick background research, there is nothing to indicate the presence of planets suitable for habitation, but equally, there is nothing to discount it.


So your saying ET has been hanging around for the past few thousand years... seen fit to do public flyovers for the aztecs, egyptians etc but can't be seen for love nor money now? Again, get real and stop watching x-files and star trek 24/7.

Any one ever try to equate force with electrical current and magnetic fields.

I mean, just suppose it could happen.

You will need to suppose that air electron currents and magnetic currents are
able to be generated strong enough.

Generating Force is the same thing as creating acceleration.

In terms of two voltages I found that F = (V1V2/2) (1125/10^7) TONS

For voltages in the thousands I got thousands of tons, but may be divided
by the frequency involved.

So if a 1000 cps voltage in involved, we get 40 tons.


A dream or reality, equations can lie.

But couldn't a saucer shaped craft be powered by a Relativity Drive or EmDrive(electromagnetic drive).

Relativity Drive

There's also a thread here on ATS detailing the device.

www.abovetopsecret.com...