Nine Years ...

reply to post by Lucius Driftwood

Was shocked, but remember about a week or so later, feeling angry that the US suddenly expected the world to sympathise and drop everything to accomodate their wounded pride and loss.

No the U.S. did not expect the World to sympathize with us, the fact is that World did that all on their own just us we sympathize when any tragedy happens around the Globe and step up to the plate.

Okay, I could take the bait, but I wont.
I was shocked, suprised, pensive about what the implications would mean, and now with hindsight,am struggling to be as objective and subjective as possible.
I wasn't happy it happened, I certainly didn't want it to happen, nor did I expect it to happen. But the world over has suffered terrorist threats and attacks for decades due to 'justifiable angst'. USA has been exempt from such acts since Pearl Harbour. (And don't bring in militia.Everyone has restless natives.) Maybe the fact that no-one expected the world's policeman to get a bloody nose is what made everyone stand up and notice.
I'm sorry, but seeing the likes of Tom Cruise, Clint Eastwood and Willy Nelson getting everyone pumped up into a hightened sense of nationalism on DonationTV.com just fraked me out.
Noone deserves to be a recipient of terror attacks. Period.

reply to post by thedman


Let's not resort to idiotic name calling here. "Truther Loon".


I also refuse to stoop to that level.

I am merely stating my experience and the questions that I personally had had that day,considering past events, ie the Empire State Building collision, as well as my interest in structures and resulting Engineering school education in mechanical physics.

Yes, we are very well aware that the Planes that struck the WTC were considerably larger.

But on the contrary...

The WTC WERE also originally designed to absorb the impact of a Boeing 707 Jetliner, the largest commercial aircraft at that time.
So, they should have absorbed the impact as the Empire State Building had in the very same manner.
Very similar to the way in which a net expands when catching a ball.

The forces are distributed and absorbed before breaking the surrounding structure.

But that day,deep down inside, after hearing of the both towers actually collapsing, I had had my doubts for in modern history we have never experienced a steel structured building, with a concrete facade or not suffer catastrophic damage leading to it's collapse after an aircraft collision OR Fire.

I had actually considered a career in Architecture AND The first Sky Scrapers were actually built in Chicago in the 1880's. By the use of a steel skeletal structure as was implemented in the ESB and WTC.

This also as to why Skeletal Steel Constructed Buildings were called Fire Proof and subsequently can only be brought down by explosives today.

Finally,

I feel for all of those who lost their lives that day. Especially after being told that after the first strike, that there was actually was no danger and they should remain in their offices.

If the lease holder/owner to the WTC had also been one of the many casualties that day, I would feel somewhat differently.

But luck would have it, he just coincidentally happened to not have shown up for work that day.

Look at his final insurance settlement and YOU do the MATH.

reply to post by nh_ee


Innuendo, innuendo ! If you have some facts why don't you present them to Larry Silverstein's insurers , I'm sure they would be pleased to get their money back. You think insurance companies are easily duped for vast sums ?

Originally posted by Lucius Driftwood
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Was shocked, but remember about a week or so later, feeling angry that the US suddenly expected the world to sympathise and drop everything to accomodate their wounded pride and loss.

My country has been main land car bombed and had shopping precincts blown up by the IRA for over 30 years. Funeral parades targeted, Christmas shopping stores, you name it. Did the US give a #? No. Some elements even supported the Irish armed struggle against the UK. When the boot is on the other foot, suddenly it isn't ok, or is it just the volume of numbers that makes it more shocking and different?

I don't know, I guess I'm kinda dumbfounded by remarks like this. I hope to maybe bring things into perspective, for people that may feel the same way as you.

What happened that day, in the most basic description:You have four large passenger jets hijacked. Two of them crashing into two of the tallest buildings on the planet, causing both to completely collapse, also causing another huge skyscraper to collapse. The third jet crashes into our military HQ causing a partial collapse. The fourth and final jet crashes into a field. Killing 3000 people in two hours, most of them perishing on live TV.

Can you really draw some comparison to the IRA saga? A saga that took place over 30 years time, killing 3500 people, 1100 of which were armed participants(soldiers), not completely innocent bystanders. en.wikipedia.org...

I have a hard time drawing the comparison, this was not only one of the deadliest attacks to take place on US soil, but it was one of the most destructive attacks to take place on the planet. Attempting to minimize it just because it happened here in the US is almost as offensive as suggesting that we(Americans) wanted the rest of the worlds population to feel sorry for us.

Originally posted by Alfie1
reply to post by nh_ee

 

Innuendo, innuendo ! If you have some facts why don't you present them to Larry Silverstein's insurers , I'm sure they would be pleased to get their money back. You think insurance companies are easily duped for vast sums ?

Alfie, What part of "leave the debunking and conspiracies out of this thread" do you not understand? Is it really that hard for you to control yourself, and abide by the OP's request?

reply to post by PersonalChoice

Originally posted by PersonalChoice
...this was not only one of the deadliest attacks to take place on US soil, but it was one of the most destructive attacks to take place on the planet.

As terror attacks go, 9/11 wins the prize for the most visible and therefore effective terror attack ever. London's 7/7 attack would have been invisible except for the genious of the planners who included one strategically placed bus for the TV cameras.

However, 9/11 is not even close to the top of the list in destruction and casualties although the number of people dying from asbestos poisoning is slowly bringing the numbers up.

It probably pales into insignifance against the wholesale bombing of Iraq by Pres Bush Sr including water treatment plants and the baby milk factory which combined with the 10 years of harsh sanctions accounts for millions of deaths.

It doesn't hold a candle to the first day of the "Shock and Awe" attack on Iraq where 3000 bombs including 320 Tomahawk missiles rained down on major population centers. Sections of Baghdad and other cities were turned into infernos.

(WSWS.org) - US blitzkrieg turns Baghdad into an inferno
In fact, a comparison between the Nazi invasion of Poland in 1939 and other fascist outrages of the 1930s and 1940s and the current US campaign is entirely apt. In terms of sheer firepower, the American assault on Baghdad undoubtedly surpasses the German Luftwaffe’s pounding of Polish cities.

No regime has launched such a one-sided military campaign since that time—until now.

The number of casualties on the first day is obviously hard to determine but compare it with the "firestorm" bombing of Dresden in WW2 where it's now accepted that casualties were approx 25,000. Multiply that by the number of cities being set ablaze in the shock and awe attack and you can easily accept 100,000 deaths on day 1.

Terrorism or a just cause. The civilians in Baghdad and other major cities of Iraq no doubt have their own opinion.

(WSWS.org) - US blitzkrieg turns Baghdad into an inferno
The reduction of sections of Baghdad to smoldering rubble, on only the first day of the all-out assault, exposes the US government’s nauseating claim to be “democratizing” Iraq. Only a deranged ignoramus, impervious to world public opinion, like George W. Bush could declare against the backdrop of flames and mushroom clouds in Baghdad that “We’re making progress” toward the “liberation” of the country.

reply to post by JohnJasper


I agree completely JJ, maybe I should have been a little more specific, but I think there is no question, that the force of military might wreaking havoc upon a city in one attack, can certainly trump a allegedly 19 person terrorist team. Still in terms of overall destruction in property and financial terms is staggering, easily comparing to some of the worst attacks on the planet. At least not far down the list.

In my humble opinion, 911 looked like a controlled demolition.

We were in the office and a TV was moved in and turned on.

Then we were sent home. I watched the news over and over again because to me, I couldn't believe what I was watching and what was coming out of the newscasters mouths.

It looked like a controlled demolition. Those building should have withstook the impacts, they went down to quickly, too smoothly.

I had just watched a National Geographical Special on Demolition and this oddly enough, looked like exactly the same thing.

All those poor souls.

I really and truely believe there is a fraction, a secret governing power within America and possibly now the world that is controlling most of the major stuff happening and this was a controlled incident to manipulate the American People into war and to make them so afraid that they would gladly hand over what little freedoms we then had.

A ruthless ruse to allow set into place:

Yet another war.
Full body scanners in our airports, that now reduce our privacy to zero.
Cameras on every major street junction, mall, store, post office, all places where people gather.
Wire tapping
Water boading, torture, not by a third world country, but by a world power
Gautama Bay Gulog
Border Fences (Remember the Berlin Wall?)
Scanners
Tasers
Wire Tapping
Drone killing machines
............all in the name of National Security.

People are so easily manipulated by fear. Death and fear bring out man's primal instinct to put aside reason and blindly obey the ones that speak the loudest.

Things aren't always what they appear.

My gut through these nine years has told me, the enemy isn't over there so much as within.

May those 3,000 souls rest in peace and the ones that followed in the ensuing war as well.

Mankind is still warring against each other, and, if we as a species, keep out pacing our spiritual nature with our technological skills, we may soon find ourselves, all of us in rubble.

dear schrodinger

i experienced that aweful day in germany

my experience, my thoughts have been noted in another thread

but i know i will never forget that day which left such a big hole in the hearts of so many people.

may the ones they have loved never be forgotten, and may those who still suffer always be in our hearts