Nine Years ...

... since the world changed abruptly, since pieces of us crumbled at our doorstep, since our last remnants of innocence were stolen.

So many things happened on that day, and so many things have happened since on its account. Hundreds of thousands lives lost, millions of lives changed, and a future disproportionately uncertain.

Countless theories and opinions have been formed interpreting that day's events as the human mind struggles to understand, struggles to connect and stay connected to the emotional trauma that was generated. So deep is that need to feel useful, to feel like we are 'helping' that our communication is all but broken, our opinions all but unshakable, and the word 'truth' has become an insult.

As a person that lived in lower Manhattan on that day, I so often watch these conversations unfold with an overwhelming sense of sadness and desperation ... it feels like I'm watching people argue about their theories how a family member was killed, yelling about it, day after day, while I'm in the room ... and I sit in that room wondering if they even remember who it is that died, do they even care, or is it that their argument itself has become more important that its subject.

I don't know how and why things have devolved to this point, a point where one of the most important events of our time cannot be discussed without overwhelming polemics, without compassion, without kindness, and more often than not without reason.

But I want to try ... I want to try to do one thread without anger, without shouting, without personal resentments onto each other. In the process I want to do my best to plant a seed of hope and show that we can talk without fear, share without aggression, and understand that what we have become to each other since that day yields as much suffering as the day itself. For this division of theoretical camps, this being at each other's throats over interpretations and beliefs, is a massive price to pay for all of us, it wears on all of us, and it is unnecessary.

So this thread is not about 9/11 theories, it isn't about argument, it isn't about belief. What I would like, if you are up to it, is discuss and share with each other what your experiences were on that day, both physical, emotional, and intellectual. Share with us what drives your passion to pursue the truth of the subject, not merely your beliefs, but look within and share what it is in you that stays connected to that day's events so many years later.

I am hoping that for once we can just talk about the subject in a way that reminds us that our common passion and pursuit of the truth is greater and infinitely more valuable than our individual opinions. I am hoping that many who like myself have given up on this forum will come to it and be able to share their thoughts without fear of being aggressed, belittled, and ridiculed. I am hoping that all that is possible ...

For if it is not, we have lost a great deal more than we should have ever allowed ourselves to lose ... our selves.

Will you help me?

Will you make this thread about supporting each other as opposed to aggressing each other?
Will you put your love in front of your thoughts?
Will you give us all a chance to reset ourselves so we can free ourselves of this mountain of bitterness, if only for a few days?

I have no allusions that soon enough many of us will go back to shouting at each other, but it would be nice to know that we can, at least for a few moments stop doing so. And should we be able to manage that, we can always have a thread, a place, a point of reference if you will, to remind ourselves that it is possible.

Will you help me?

I just lost too many people I loved on that day, and it pains me to no end to see us that way with each other ... it's like a permanent dagger, twisted on a daily basis, making the suffering so much worse.

I beg you not to attack each other.
And I ask you to share your story.
And I will share mine.
We can do this.

Big Love!

sdog

Hey S'Dog.

Remember I told you I was heading to NY. I got a hotel overlooking the WTC site. I could hardly believe how big it was, what a gaping hole, what a scar. Not just physically, but psychologically, emotionally, what an event that must have been for you and all New Yorkers, all Americans, and yes, all Human beings.

I bowed my head, paid my respects with a few words to the cosmos.

Yes there is too much hate, too much name calling, too much stubbornness.

I applaud your effort mate, but I too fear you're not going to get the result you desire.

I have said many times on ATS that I am a Truther. I have also declared that I don't give a damn about being right or wrong, in fact I'd like to be wrong, I just want to know the truth.

The way I see it, many people died that day, and it's only right that the events of 9/11 are thoroughly explained and the actions of TPTB scrutinised.

We need to find the common ground, give a little, maybe a lot. Only then can we move forward.

I think, approaching the ten year anniversary, this thread is essential.

All the best S'Dog, ATS,

A very good thought behind this thread. The day before 9/11 I had a terrible nightmare which I vividly recall to this day.
On the morning of 9/11 I received a call from my ex-wife who told me to turn on the TV.
I can remember the chills running up my spine and a gasp of disbelief when the 2nd plane hit the WTC and when flight 93 and the Pentagon were attacked.
Due to my dream my cynical mind was in action while watching it all happen but seeing the actual people falling from buildings brought tears to my eyes.
My ex called again later in complete panic and I told her she had nothing to worry about (she lives way out in the boonies). It was the first personal conversation we'd had in years.
My mind was never set on revenge for the events of 9/11. when everyone started calling for blood I protested that we didn't know enough about who did it to start dropping bombs anywhere.
I never set out to be a truther but all the government reports and administration officials statements always seemed to conflict with what I had seen or knew.
I wanted to trust our government but after they invaded Iraq I knew for sure that someone had created a pretext for attacking Iraq and Afghanistan.
I respect the views of others who believe the OS and the 911 commission report and I have vowed to never argue with anyone about it. Should I find our ideas conflict I simply drop the matter and move the conversation elsewhwere.
It is truly sad when all the anger over which story is right overshadows the lives of the actual victims.
To all who lost loved ones that day I am truly sorry. Forgive me if my search for answers ever brings back the pain of your loss. It is for them that I seek the truth.

I remember walkin downstairs, seeing on tv, and my first reaction was, why isn't anyone else as disturbed by this as I? I then headed to my friends house where I spent the next 8 hours in disbelief.
I got there before the 2nd crash, yet never saw it live, despite watching 2 tvs on different stations.
I then thought about the firefighters, and how long it would take to extinguish. Thought, there had to be a better way. Thinking of going to see it a few weeks later, and what it would look like and how long to fix it. Never once thinking it would collapse. So when it did, I didnt believe it. Baffling.

I was all mixed up and backwards after that, possibly since.

new investigation would be nice.
When it did, I was

reply to post by schrodingers dog


I wish I could relate my feelings in a rational compassionate way about that day 9 years ago but the trauma and memories are just to painful.

I prefer to shed my tears in private.

Im sorry for your loss.

I watched tv that morning.I was asleep for the first. My buddy shane called me and told me it happened. I turn on NBC and the pundits are all speculating about what happened. I knew, and it saddned me. My father was an engineer working on a new runway at Sarasota International Airport at the time. He and some of the workers were going to get a tour of Air Force One. He saw Bush leave under stress. He looked at the armored cars sit at the airport for weeks after.

I dont doubt two things. It was a con job of some sort. Far too many people and far to many pieces of evidence. I dont know who, why, or how per se. But its obvious this was a crime.

also, that its intention was partly that we would be talking about it years later. which I loathe. If your looking back, your not looking ahead fully. Im not going to be played. Im not going to let my heart strings be pulled for one second by someones hideous crime. Im moving on. Paying attention to the card holders, not the cards.

My first thoughts were...well America,you screwed with too many countries and now its your turn for a black eye so take it as you deserve it.

What really made my blood boil was it wasn't taken out on the right people...it was civilians that ended up dying for your governments foreign policy which the public didn't have anything to do with.

They could have protested it til they were blue in the face...the government does what it wants and civilians ended up paying for it in the end.
Those were my thoughts at the time.
Now...I am not so sure what the hell to think anymore other then those people didn't have to die.

I was at work, we were developing software and all had T1 internet access. Being busy with work I had only heard about the towers being hit. Looked real quickly at the smoke pouring out and went back to work.

When I then later heard over the hubub in the office that they had just collapsed.

My gut feeling was ...."Collapsed, are you kidding ???"

For the same reason no steel structured building had ever simply collapsed as well as why they can normally only be brought down by strategically positioned demolition charges.

I was sill in awe ....Collapsed ?

The Empire State Building was struck by a B-25 Medium Bomber, not exactly a tiny plane, and that floor of the structure didn't collapse.
The remaining super structure absorbed the impact which is the way in which they are designed to.









Everything I had learned in Engineering School pertaining to Statics, the Physics of Static Structures was suddenly just thrown out the window.

Were my Professors all wrong in convincing me to believe Mechanical Physics after all ?

My questions began to flourish ....my inner voice kept saying? "Why did the Towers simply collapse ??? " And Building 7 ?? What was that all about ? It looked like a controlled demolition ?

I had questions about what had just transpired from that very day on ....

Especially considering I had recently outfitted my home with high efficiency windows because I was almost certain that the new Administration, Bush and Cheney being old OIL Profiteers, would seek higher oil prices.

Which turned out to be correct. And the Windows have since paid for themselves !!!

Living, as I do, on the left coast in the northwest it was fairly early in the morning, and I was working a bit later than usual...

Folks began mentioning that a plane had hit a building in New York, then a bit later that two had hit separate buildings. Terrorism wasn't my first thought when it was only one building, my thought was "what a horrible accident"...when I heard about the second building...well, my first thought was, naturally enough...terrorism.

Got home around eleven o'clock that morning... It was a glorious late summer day...birds chirping, kids playing in the playground across the road. Yet I can't recall a darker day that didn't involve a death in the family. Though perhaps in a way, we all suffered a death in our rather more extended family that day...something on the order of 3000 of them.

I remember thinking how dare there be sunshine, or that birds should be playing in the trees right outside my windows... It was a strange, almost surreal, day...so bright, yet so very dark.

Confusion. Anger. Rage. Sorrow. An emotional gamut was run that day...

I'm waiting for my girl to finish getting ready for work. I'm done and watching Sportscenter when a Nike commercial comes on. The commercial had been playing for a while, it wasn't new, but interestingly it had Dr. Strangelove saying "...it is not only possible, it is essential".

Less than a half hour later I'm at work when I'm told two planes(one, maybe, at that time) had hit the WTC. I spent the day pissed off that I was working and couldn't get any info other than the WTC had collapsed(WTF?) and some other unsubstantiated junk.

Then I get home, saw the footage, and my first thought was controlled demolition. I grew up in Las Vegas and while I'm no expert on cd, I have seen it a lot, witnessed it firsthand, as my hometown has been cd'd over the years.

That's what I remember from that day. I was pissed then and that hasn't changed. All those people had to die for what? More war and death and a fascist/totalitarian U.S.A.?

I had heard of the NWO and such from Linda Thompson's video in the nineties yet it was 9/11 that confirmed all that for me. That was my wake up call that something surely was amiss and it wasn't all gibberish.

reply to post by schrodingers dog


I was at work in the UK on the day and by the time I knew about it, the second tower had already been hit. Even in the UK, we didn't get much work done that day.

In 22 November 1963, I was 7 years old, standing in front of the television fully aware that the President of the USA had been killed. I remember wishing that they could suddenly report that he wasn't actually dead but realizing that it was impossible.

I had the same feeling on 9/11 after the last tower fell. It took me right back. It was another 7 years before I would realise that the towers were brought down by the same people (give or take) that took down JFK and were probably behind every assassination of a US political figure since then.

What I want now is for the crimes to be avenged and the truth to be fully known and officially accepted. More than a million people have died directly or indirectly due to this crime and that's why I get pee'd off when posters belittle those who are genuinely seeking the truth.

Hopefully your OP will carry this message loud and clear.

Originally posted by whaaa

I prefer to shed my tears in private.

That is worthy of much respect, I felt the same way for the longest time, and still do more often than not. I din't mean this thread to bare any pressure on anyone to share more than they feel comfortable with, or even to share anything at all.

I meant it to be a positive, to the degree that positive is possible, place where we and those who choose to, can have a place to express themselves without polemics and without vitriol.

I also wanted to note that although I appreciate the sentiments of grief oriented in my direction, I really do not want this thread to be about me, my feelings, or my loss.

I have stated many times in the past that there is surely no shortage of grief and suffering to go around and no one need feel to 'own' the events of that day. This thread, I hope, will be about what we all share in common rather than the individual thoughts that separate us ... sharing our individual sentiments is meant to highlight our common experience as opposed to separating us.

Mostly, at some point, we need to know if we can talk about 9/11 as friends as opposed to as enemies ... it seemed a worthy thing to try.

I hope that makes sense ...

For me,I was a work-a holic never take vacations and I had an indescribable urge to visit my daughter for that week, just arrived back to her home after running an errand and seeing her in tears describing what had taken place with the first hit and the TV commentary blaring in the background, I sat on her sofa and watched as it unfolded consumed with anger, I instantly knew our government allowed this to happen. I held all my anger inside in front of my daughter and my grandchildren until I seen a plane in the background on this news report and knew it hit the second tower, I exploded, stating we did this. I will never forget her facial expression, dis-belief I stated such a thing.

Her home is near by an Air Force base and airport, after all planes were grounded, I went outside to collect my thoughts and noticed for the first time how serene and calm it was outside, nobody was outside or moving in her neighborhood, and then a sonic boom rattled me. It caught me off guard for a second so I told myself to not fear what may unfold.

The most precious thing I hold about that day is this, during an interview with some people that described watching the jumpers, one man described watching from his tower how he witnessed a woman distraught about the choice of smoke and heat, or jumping. He said a man came over to her and held her hand and for an instant they looked at each other and jumped. I felt so much love from that one story. A man and woman in their most desperate moment showing compassion and love for another human being so they didn't have to be alone in their final moment on this journey. I believe that is why we are here, just to show compassion and love for all of humanity.

I celebrate their lives, they gave me back me. My life has changed drastically, and I love those who gave the ultimate sacrifice for us to remember whom we truly are.

reply to post by schrodingers dog


I remember that day as well as I remember the day the Challenger exploded , the day Elvis died and the day that President Kennedy was killed . It is , and probably will be , forever seared into my concious thought .

I was at a machine shop , having some work done , when the news of the first impact came over the radio that the fellow had playing at his workstation . I rushed home to watch the rest of it unfold on t.v.

My first thoughts were that there was no way in hell that this could be happening to us . I sat there in total disbelief . I phoned everyone I could think of .

The more I saw , the more incredulous I became . I cried as I watched those poor souls who were faced with the ultimate decision , and lept to their deaths .

I stayed glued to the t.v. for most of the day , until finally I could take no more . I drove to a very secluded pond in a heavily-wooded area where I camp and fish alot .

I sat there all alone until the evening hours , smoking cigarettes and staring out over the pond . I knew that the world as I once knew it , had just changed in a major way .

I followed the story for days , weeks , and months afterward , leaning more and more towards the opinion that there was no way that this was pulled off by 19 people .

My first inclination was that our government was somehow responsible . And the collapses all struck me as being similar to controlled demolitions . I suppose I was a 'truther' before the word was even coined .

I had went to the bookstore and bought every single newspaper that was for sale the next day . I read everything that I could get my hands on in the first few weeks . Nothing made sense .

There came a point that I gave up on finding any answers .

I eventually joined ATS , earlier this year , and offered my two-cents worth , from a 'truther' standpoint .

The more I read and looked at , I eventually came to be of the opinion that I couldn't prove anything I was saying , because it was all speculation and conjecture . In a sense , the story of 19 highjackers made a hell of a lot more sense to me and seemed more plausible than the enormity of the people that would need to be involved to cover up a crime of this magnitude .

I hopped the fence several times until finally deciding that all the conspiracy theories contained more holes than the official account . Don't get me wrong , I still believe the official version is more than lacking when it comes to a credible explanation of everything that allowed 9/11 to transpire .

I have since been labled a 'debunker' and even made the short list as a disinfo agent .

Everyone is entitled to their opinions , I don't have a problem with that . Nor do I have a problem with a new investigation , I even encourage it . If there is nothing to hide then there's nothing to worry about .

To disagree with the opinion of others does not make me an evil person . Please remember that , everyone .

A part of me died that day and the nightmares took years to go away . It wasn't fun waking up in a cold-sweat with visions of the faces on those planes staring out the windows at me , pleading , screaming , frozen in terror .

I have come a long way since that horrible day . I am not a government agent and I am not evil simply because I disagree with you .

Thanks S.D. , for allowing me to get that off my chest .

I remember this day fairly well. I had just been removed from 'city living' for awhile and had begun working the Renaissance Faire. I had a rough time transiting to this and as a result had a mild difficulty making new pals, so I read a lot.

At any rate, I was tent sleeping because we were on site building the Faire and I was woken up by a newish pal with a radio. There were only a few TV's on site so the radio wasn't really out of place. He told me what happened and I listened for a few. While I know that S-Dog said no conspiracy theories, my gut reaction after a bit was to go pick up a newspaper and see what was there. I won't go into anything further on the conspiracy front, only that even before I had found ATS I was thinking angles. At any rate, I went to the closest shop, a gas station, and picked up some snacks, a beer (we had the day off) and a newspaper. I returned to site and immediately started skimming. I found nothing of pertinent interest though as there was either nothing or there was nothing I could relate to.

By then, one of the guys who did have a TV was finally awake (or had been) and I went over there to watch the news. There was a pretty crowded gathering and we all kind of just watched, changing between the various news channels to get as much of an idea as possible. While that time period was a bit fuzzy, I know that it lasted for a few hours.

My impression was extreme sadness...of course, how could one escape the impact of so many helpless people meeting their untimely end. There were no words and only questions...

Suffice to say, after several hours of watching we all decided to take a bit of a break and head over to the bar for drinks...there was nothing more that we could do and it was agreed that we should at least distract ourselves for awhile...but of course, there was a TV at the bar and there was no getting away from it.

I don't remember too much from those days save for a few odds and ends...one of which was that I continued buying newspapers (my only source of information at the time)...

We were in Ponoka, a small town in Alberta Canada. I was in my study. My wife came storming in. She was scared, i could smell her fear. She turned on the TV. They were airing the clip of the WTC attack. I thought that it was a little low-tech attack, to have been from Russia, but I still thought it was Russia. Then we saw the Pentagon. I told her to grab Johnny (our boy) pack some sandwiches, while i find the hand-powered radio, and full jerrycans. We went out to her fathers in the country, and awaited word for more attacks. Being the paranoid guy I was then, we stayed for 2 months, and when I was certain, no other attacks would happen soon. We went back home. Our bosses aloud us to come back to work, for they had done something similiar. Most frightening, disturbing, experience I had ever had, next to the car crash I was in last year

I was living in San Diego on 9/11. I was awake at 6am, having been awake all night. When I saw the news (on Yahoo news leadlines - remember those?) about the first plane, I briefly read the headline, but didn't turn on the TV until I saw news of the second plane.

I remember nervously waking up one of my housemates, apologizing and saying "I know you like to see news early". I was outside smoking a cigarette when I heard the news of plane hitting the Pentagon, and I remember exclaiming "What the HELL?" to the early morning backyard.

Around noon I drove out to the convenience store, and as I was driving I turned on my headlights. I remember that about 3/4 of the people on the road had their headlights on, too. It really touched me how everyone was sharing their feelings that way. At that moment, we weren't disconnected drivers in our little car-boxes, we were all sharing the road together.

reply to post by nh_ee

The Empire State Building was struck by a B-25 Medium Bomber, not exactly a tiny plane, and that floor of the structure didn't collapse.
The remaining super structure absorbed the impact which is the way in which they are designed to.

The B25 in this case weighed probably less than 20,000 lbs (it had been converted to personnel transport). Max fuel load of B25 was 975 gal
It was lost in fog travelling relatively slow (under 180 mph)

The 767 weighs over 300,000 lbs, Fuel load at time of impact was 9600 gal
It was travelling at 470 (Flight 11) to 530 mph (Flight 175)

Do the math - impact forces at WTCwere over 100 times Empire State
Building . Fuel load was over 10 times ESB

ESB had masonry exterior with gridl arrangment of steel columns which
helped absorb impact. WTC had this exterior wall of steel lattice - impact
snapped the welds and bolts holding it together. Once past exterior wall
was open floor of 1 acre - not much to stop the aircraft debris

Usual truther comparison of apples to oranges.....

That day is a day that i never will forget.

I was in my second term at college, I believe it was the second class of the day. Being a college student i probably wouldnt have even turned the news on. However, my professor was actually 15 min late to get to the room. He rushed in and asked if the 5 of us in the class room have seen the news.

Back ground, the professor was about 65-70 yrs of age. And yes we had 5 people in the class.

All i can remember was him turining on the TV and staring at it all hour. We watched the second plane hit. I had no idea at that time what would unfold to this day. Our professor Never turned around, never spoke, until we started moving to our next class. He then stated, "Can you believe what is going on" Non of us could reply, we were dumbfounded, ignorant to the fact that 9/11 changed everything.

It is a scary thought, especially today. Weather you believe the OS or not, that day is one that changed many things in my life today. What will happen tomarrow will always and forever be a reflection of that day.

reply to post by thedman


Hi thedman,

Did you read the OP?

I was hoping we could have one thread where we can discuss our shared experience, the place for argument on this issue is every other thread.

It's not that you're not entitled to your opinion on the subject, it's just that it would be a welcome change to have a 9/11 thread without insults such as calling others 'truthers.'

Just a request of course, I can't tell you what and where to post.

[edit on 30 Aug 2010 by schrodingers dog]