WHO are the Disinformationists ?

reply to post by ReturnOfGoukilock


ReturnOfGoukilock.....

Why are you supporting known liars & hoaxers?

With all politeness & courtesy intended, I must say I am surprised you are not aware of the scale of the willful hoaxing & dishonest behaviour of Maussan & his crowd.

Have a look at this thread:

The Jaime Maussan Metepec Creature Confirmed as a Hoax

Have a look at this summary of Maussan’s nefarious behaviour as per one of our extremely knowledgeable & experienced previous members:

Originally posted by internos
About Maussan's reliability i'd say that he has some issues to say the least: he should never be takens seriously, IMHO.

Some Maussan's claims and facts:

• CLAIM: Maussan claims the photo below was the best photo ever taken of a giant UFO in space.
  [atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/1da75ce2f1ef.jpg[/atsimg]
  
  FACT: The photo appearing in the October 6, 1997 issue of "Contacto Ovni Magazine" is actually that of a galaxy forming, not a UFO.
  
  
  
• CLAIM: Maussan claims 'Dr.Reed' UFO case is real and scientific evidence supports it. Maussan claims his alleged intelligence contacts within the military warned him that the case is real and very dangerous. Maussan takes 'Dr.Reed' on a national speaking tour of Mexico and creates a media campaign to promote the case. These speaking engagements sell out at many locations.
  
  FACT: 'Dr.Reed' and his entire case have been exposed as a fraud. Maussan is challenged to produce his alleged scientific evidence and fails. Maussan and associates claim to have thoroughly investigated 'Dr.Reed' and to have established his claims, evidence, and witnesses. Claims of an alleged alien device being of extraterrestrial origin are never proven in spite of Maussan claiming the bunk device utilized advanced nano-technology. Not a grain of proof is ever forthcoming from Maussan to back any of his claims.
  
  
  
• CLAIM: Maussan was saying that UFO video shot from a helicopter in New York City was real and had been analyzed.
  
  FACT: Video was a hoax produced by the Sci-Fi Channel.
  
  
  
• CLAIM: Publicly stated it had been confirmed that the comet Hale-Bopp was bringing giant motherships to evacuate the planet.
  
  FACT: No mother ships, planet still here along with population. Hale-Bopp UFO hoax exposed as a fraud by Jeff Rense.
  
  
  
• CLAIM: Maussan said he had radar tapes confirming presence of UFOs in Mexico's airspace.
  
  FACT: To date, no such evidence has been brought forward.
  
  
  
• CLAIM: Maussan claims that he investigated a case where an airliner collided with a UFO in Mexico. Also claimed that "tons" of evidence and documents supported the case.
  
  FACT: No evidence was ever produced.
  
  
  
• CLAIM: Promoted alleged alien photo as being real and impossible to replicate.
  
  FACT: Photo was easily replicated. Maussan, in spite of being told it was fake prior to the story running at Rense.com, insisted the photo was genuine even after being told it was a fake.
  
  
  
• CLAIM: Maussan said there were gigantic UFO motherships orbiting the planet disguised as stars.
  
  FACT: When asked for proof, Maussan exclaimed that was why the stars in the night sky moved - because they were UFOs!
  

See also

• JAIME MAUSSAN: DAMAGING SERIOUS UFOLOGY ONE HOAX AT A TIME
  
  
• AEROMEXICO'S AIRPLANE COLLIDED WITH A UFO BEFORE LANDING IN 1994! HOAX.
  
  
• Latest ET Photo Hoax Exposed
  
  
• Maussan hoax? And HOWE!!! (AKA flying horse)
  
  
• OdyessyLink -- True Story or Hoax? It's a HOAX!!!
  
  
• Investigative Journalist or willing believer?
  
  what about the flying horse?
  
  
  Ah, about this case, in particular about the radioactivity: WHAT is it supposed to prove the radioactivity?
  Anyway, pheraps he doesn't do it purposely, but of course is a prolific promoter of HOAXES.
  

What about this one as mentioned by Internos in his post.......?



It’s a TV commercial!

What about this video of an arch of party balloons that Maussan promoted as an alien UFO serpent?



Or…..this one where he said a UFO must have put this penguin in this tree?



Unfortunately, Maussan’s perfidious network now has global reach.

For example, the appalling Paolo Harris & the appalling Maussan are now in it together & have been for some time.

Do you remember this total BS wherein Harris & Maussan said this guy is an alien in disguise?

”Is that an alien probe in your pocket or are you just glad to see me…” ..... I can't believe I wrote that!

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/cdbea5eb73a1.jpg[/atsimg]

They also support the appalling Antonio Urzi, who just happens to video lots of clear daylight alien spacecraft from his apartment in the middle of Milan (Italy), which nobody else notices.

Urzi’s UFO’s just happen to be identical to metal buttons & fasteners used on denim jeans…..funny that…..he’s a also a clothes designer…..

Here's one of Urzi's "UFO's":

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/7845e3eec01f.jpg[/atsimg]

Here's an "Urzi button UFO" picture made by a member of ATS with a button in about 5 minutes flat (Urzi "UFO" on left, member button "UFO" on right):

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/7cca87a94345.jpg[/atsimg]

When his UFO business got a bit slow, him & Maussan & Harris started taking videos of inflatable “Virgin Mary” balloons & inflatable horse balloons & saying they were messages from the stars or something.



video.google.com...#

Maussan’s rambling, whining monologue during Urzi’s balloon videos is a true highlight!

I see this must be a good way for Urzi to pick up chicks…..

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/cd70fc26266e.jpg[/atsimg]

I also ask again:

- Where’s the original higher res version of the infamous Turkey video & who controls it & why?

- As above for the “UFO releasing intelligent spheres” video…..what about that?

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

[edit on 30-8-2010 by Maybe...maybe not]

reply to post by Maybe...maybe not


JeBus!!!

did anyone get what this post is about or are yall f'n with me LOL

where do you think Disinfo Comes From and who do you think it goes to?

did you look at the Moon Map-A-planet? is that a hoax?

or do all you people just buy into that UFOs are all hoaxes?

Can someone actually link the HOAX Proof?

or is it just more people like you saying Hoaxer?

A Bunch of people with the same opinion does not count as Proof



[edit on 30-8-2010 by ReturnOfGoukilock]


[edit on 30-8-2010 by ReturnOfGoukilock]

reply to post by ReturnOfGoukilock


ReturnOfGoukilock.....

For people who support Greer the serial pest…..

Here is Greer’s recent picture of an ”extraterrestrial being”, that he posted on his website:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b30ea6c50943.jpg[/atsimg]

Here is the thread, which you will find in the hoax forum, with all the other material pertaining to Greer:

HOAX - Steve Greer (CSETI) Photograph ET Being - HOAX

Here is Greer’s older picture of an ”extraterrestrial light being”, (a.k.a. “The Moth”) that he also posted on his website:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/67a103947298.jpg[/atsimg]

Please see the picture below courtesy of Doomsday Rex (thanks mate! )

This picture shows definitively that Greer used a picture of moth to hoax a picture of an ”extraterrestrial light being”. What a disgusting way to make a living….. :shk:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b75a7b602ce8.jpg[/atsimg]

When Greer was challenged about that moth picture, he withdrew it from his website.

Suppose you wanted to see Greer.....

Greer would charge you & 30 other people $1,000 each to sit on the beach with him for a few hours. Greer earns more than $30,000 for 1 night on the beach.

Greer doesn't charge $100 or $200 per person.....Greer charges $1,000 + accommodation, etc..., with no cost structure or expenses incurred. It all goes in Greer's pocket.

And then.....when you figure out you just got ripped off, you realise you can’t tell anybody because.....

You’d already signed the mandatory NDA:

www.cseti.org...

You’d already signed the mandatory liability release:

www.cseti.org...

You’d already signed the "Ambassador Agreement":

www.cseti.org...

So.....you find out the hard way that Greer is a scam artist who is taking money out of people's pockets by taking advantage of their vulnerability & their gullibility.

As you can now see…….

Greer is a greedy, relentless, dishonest hoaxer who is trying to make idiots out of all of us.

Regards
Maybe...maybe not


[edit on 30-8-2010 by Maybe...maybe not]

reply to post by Maybe...maybe not


So no matter what, even though my post said that I don't believe everything that comes out of these sources, i'm still gonna fry for looking into it further

And your putting it in the groups of "EITHER" and "OR"

AGAIN

I don't care about there personal lives

And you are so proving my point


Don't Waste My Time Trying to sell me on whatever your selling

read the post 50 more times, or untill you get the point

reply to post by ReturnOfGoukilock


ReturnOfGoukilock.....

If you let me know where you feel I may have provided you with information that is incorrect, I will be very pleased to review that with you.

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

reply to post by Maybe...maybe not

so you ran this through Photoshop and checked for Filters and resolution differences?

and you researched all the Military Personnel that claim to have had an experience?


I Mean, you REALLY KNOW ENOUGH TO POST ALL THESE USELESS PICTURES
you must have gone the whole 9 yards right?

of course not, because your just another guy who wants to shut a window without opening a door

reply to post by ReturnOfGoukilock


How many lies are you willing to forgive them for?


Seriously, how can people still support someone who continually lets them down time and time again?

Also, are you willing to discuss the points raised or will you continue to get defensive against those that disagree with you?

reply to post by ReturnOfGoukilock


ReturnOfGoukilock......

I'm not quite sure of the point you are making.

If you could clarify it for me, I will endeavour to provide you with a salient reply.

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

reply to post by Maybe...maybe not


Sure, how about getting my point that Truth gets Mixed up with Lies , And Lies get mixed in the Truth when it come to how Disinfo works

That WAS the point of this thread, but you sure are ready to sell me on all these guys being Hoaxers

"This guy Supports Hoaxers! Why do you want to Support Hoaxers"?


Are you trying to Derail the Point?


Read the POST AGAIN!!

reply to post by ReturnOfGoukilock


ReturnOfGoukilock.....

Are you trying to Derail the Point?

I'm not familiar with the term "derail the point".

Can you tell me what that means?

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not


[edit on 30-8-2010 by Maybe...maybe not]

reply to post by Chadwickus


Sure I Am, Did you Look at the Moon Map-A-Planet?

and did you look up all those Military Personnel?

How about getting the point about Lies getting mixed with the Truth , and that is how Disinfo Works

because that was the point Everyone keeps skipping around so they can type Hoaxer one more time

reply to post by Maybe...maybe not


yea, I'm totally not falling for that

sly dog

In espionage or military intelligence, disinformation is the deliberate spreading of false information to mislead an enemy as to one's position or course of action. In politics, disinformation is the deliberate attempt to deflect voter support of an opponent, disseminating false statements of innuendo based on the candidates vulnerabilities as revealed by opposition research. In both cases, it also includes the distortion of true information in such a way as to render it useless.

Unlike traditional propaganda and Big Lie techniques designed to engage emotional support, disinformation is designed to manipulate the audience at the rational level by either discrediting conflicting information or supporting false conclusions.

This is from The Wikipedia Definition of Disinformation

which is also a source to be skeptical of, since any random person can edit it






And Thats One Way to start Disinfo

It becomes even harder for anyone to get to the truth while there are snippets of lies mixed up with the truth.

Lets take Maussan for instance, what is offered by the sceptical as evidence he is not trustworthy is a tiny amount of the work he does, its always the mistakes that are highlighted, yet never the excellent work he has carried out, those mistakes are then blown out of all proportion to label him as a liar and a cheat.

Yet if they actually met the guy in person, they would get a whole different idea of who he is and what he does, his biggest mistake is trusting people too much, and that's all.

Sitchin how can anyone make a judgement, when the work he referred too is locked away and nobody is allowed to research it apart from Government sponsored Linguists, any opinion has to come of the back of others, making an opinion your own that way does in deed make you a disinfo agent if you pass that off as proof he was lying, just why were most of the tablets locked away and images of most of them lost?

Greer he has been promised the World by the same people who strive to keep the secret no matter what that secret turns out to be, Man made or Alien visitation.

Again people jump on the mistakes rather than the evidence of many many respectable hard working Scientists and Military personnel who have come out and spoken about what they worked on and witnessed these things, with proof they did work where they said they did, and the Pilots who have witnessed these things all their flying days, yet they are mostly branded insane, again mostly using the opinions of others as your own.

Billy Meier again taking what others say as positive proof he is a fraud, Billy Meier is not a fraud, its those who made up the stories to make money who are the frauds, if you actually go and meet him for yourselves, you would have zero doubt, but be careful, if you go with a smart arse attitude your likely to be shot, write first and be patient and honest, it will take a while, but if your open minded and honest you will get there.

In my experience, those who make a living from Ufology always have a trickle of lies running through their lives, they have to because it has to be sensationalised to an extent, otherwise new events would be short and uninteresting, 99% of sightings and encounters are not huge events, and often not taken serious, and then because of that are unheard of outside the local community at least until someone who is interested comes along and decides it needs more looking into, and that can be 30-40-50 years later.

However if someone who just dismisses it because they cant consider it as maybe true, it will be torn to shreds on that persons opinion, not on actual investigation or research, if it does get a little further, it will be torn to shreds, because Bill Blogs said he looked into it and it was BS, when Bill Blogs did nothing but sit and listen to the story and went home already knowing in his head it was the "Planet Venus" the Man had seen on that cloudy day.

Opinions are wonderful things, but unless you go and see for yourself, and do the research yourself, do you really know the facts?

Final example, The Rendlesham Forest incident Here there has been a lot of threads about this incident, but recently the theory is that they saw the Lighthouse and where mistaken.

Yet it is the people who made these claims who are very much mistaken, WHY? because if they actually visited the real landing site, instead of one shown them by a local guide, they would realise that not in a million years could they see the Lighthouse from the actual spot, not unless they could look through a forest of trees, over barns and farmhouses, as well as old vehicles lying in the direct path, not to mention the height.

Yet many have accepted it was the Lighthouse that was witnessed, so who is lying to who? many are lying to themselves for accepting a small amount of evidence as an indication of wrong doing over a huge amount of other evidence that it clearly is not the case.

Added to the many who have read a picture book and class themselves as an expert, well some are leaders and others do the following I guess.

And Getting to Jose Escamillias' Moon Rising

These are Pics I got From That .Gov Site I Posted







[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ea2721367bbb.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a21ee705bd25.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ded4154abcb3.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/4aa6c132ee2b.jpg[/atsimg]

and these are just a Few of the interesting Random Anomalies I found

Did I say this was a .Gov Site?

reply to post by azzllin


Well I'm Glad to see that you get my exact point

and Really well put

reply to post by ReturnOfGoukilock

WHO are the Disinformationists ?

I spent a post or two here trying to reason with those who saw shadowy figures in every post, and so-called 'disinformationalists' in every name.

It was pointless. Paranoia breeds true. It is a proud, independent part of the human condition that will not be tamed. In fact, I have come to believe that many thrive on the feud; waging holy war is a beloved pastime for the juvenile, if not even a vocation for the more mature.

But you know what? It really boils down to the individual being self reliant and capable to sifting the mouse from the mix. If one is so feeble minded to buy into some belief real-estate without first making sure that there is some real dirt worth owning, you will get what you deserve... and it is nobody's fault but your own!

Anyone can tell a lie; even a big, bold beautiful one. No big thing. But it takes a functional logic center and a little self responsibility to avoid becoming a victim of it... or blaming someone else if you do.

...

reply to post by ReturnOfGoukilock


ReturnOfGoukilock.....

Escamilla is a known serial hoaxer.

Here is a current thread pertaining to Escamilla.

The implosion of "JOSE ESCAMILLA": THE UFO HOAXER

The pictures you have posted have been shown to be disingenuous misrepresentations.

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not


[edit on 30-8-2010 by Maybe...maybe not]

reply to post by ReturnOfGoukilock


ReturnOfGoukilock.....

Also in view of your commentary pertaining to Escamilla.....

Do you know who this is?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ec5f969442a2.jpg[/atsimg]

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

Originally posted by ReturnOfGoukilock
reply to post by NoHierarchy

 

HOWEVER, I have to HEAVILY disagree with you that global warming is caused by the sun. Studies show that the scientific world agrees over 90% that global warming is real, man-made, and a serious problem. But studies of the media and public opinion show that the media only says global warming is man-made roughly half the time... and the public's opinion is a reflection of this- about half believe it's real/caused by man

Actually, I thought it was Just Obvious, after much review i personally think that Its ignorant to consider that the Sun would NOT be a Reason

Do we understand the Sun?
Solar Scientists Say Sun Behaving Strangely
Is the Sun Doing stuff we didn't think it would ?
Solar Scientists Agree That the Sun's Recent Behavior Is Odd, but the Explanation Remains Elusive
Is Similar Heating effecting other Planets at the same time?
Mars Melt Hints at Solar, Not Human, Cause for Warming, Scientist Says
is it moving toward dangerous Solor Maximum?
signs that the sun is waking up and heading toward another solar maximum
oh and
Sun Blamed for Warming of Earth and Other Worlds

Now Really it Comes down to Who you trust . I could pull up a bunch of Links that say your Ill-informed, just as you did me, so who is lying?

they can't all be right, or all be wrong.

and it was really just a small point to a bigger Debate

So I know where My money is Going, Obviously you made your choice

now stay on subject

I am staying on the subject. You mentioned global warming being a hoax so that's what I wanted to respond to.

Second of all, did you even read the articles you posted? I've seen those articles each at least 5 times and the TITLES of the articles belie the actual meat and facts of them. There is nothing in them that states that the sun is the cause for global warming and each of them state that humans are the overwhelming cause.

The fact is, solar irradiance/sunspots have DECREASED over the past few decades while temps have risen. CO2 both has a strong causative and correlative effect on our temperature. Within merely a century we've increased atmospheric concentrations of CO2 from 280ppm to almost 400ppm... this is an EXTREME and RAPID rise in lingering CO2 (that cannot be scrubbed quickly enough via carbon sinks like the ocean). The fact is if we removed ALL CO2 from our atmosphere, the Earth would be 60 degrees Fahrenheit cooler... that's quite an effect, and it's elementary physics that CO2 is a greenhouse gas.

Also, other planets moons may be warming, but others are also COOLING right now. Mars melt can be explained by misinterpretation of seasonal patterns... the reason some photos show Mars cap melt is because they're showing Mars in its SPRINGTIME, when caps are supposed to melt. All of the bodies in our solar system, whether they're experiencing warming or cooling can be explained by either seasonal or climatic patterns that are self-contained and there is NO evidence the sun is the main factor, ESPECIALLY in the warming of Earth.

It's really funny how you'll rant against disinformation agents and false skeptics... yet when presented with facts that show disinfo/propaganda/false-skepticism for one of your own stances, you simply DENY IT YOURSELF! That's called blatant hypocrisy. I'm not here to single you out and start any war. I was interested in your subject title and I agree with a lot of what you said... HOWEVER, I did see a part where you were mistaken and I felt I needed to show you some information so that YOU can educate yourself on global warming disinformation better. On the mountain of truth you never climb in vain... even if it means ditching a belief proven wrong. Trust me... I've studied global warming quite extensively and I've given EVERY denier argument a chance, and almost NONE of them end up standing the test of facts/purity/accuracy. I'm not saying this to deceive you, I'm saying this because I believe you've been deceived and I hate to see people thinking they're fighting TPTB when they're actually helping them.

[edit on 30-8-2010 by NoHierarchy]