Proofs Of God(s)/ Reasons To Believe In One

reply to post by ImAnAlienOnMyOwnPlanet


Like I said,you are wrong....
bibleprobe.com...

reply to post by mamabeth


You could never be so wrong. I know you're going to continue to deny the Hebrew Bible and use the false Christian bible. Messiah Truth
The website you posted is false.
Jew finding his roots
Read what this person finding in Judaism.
As I posted earlier. Did your Jesus fulfill during his life time the Messiah prophecies? no!

reply to post by ImAnAlienOnMyOwnPlanet


I listen to a messianic rabbi about twice a week,
think again! I also have a jewish new testament
and a copy of the Torah!

reply to post by mamabeth


Do you see how Jesus is not the Messiah or God?
Once you see where I'm coming from then you'll understand me!

reply to post by ImAnAlienOnMyOwnPlanet


Jesus/Yeshua is the Messiah! He is coming back very soon.
I am looking forward to His return.You are obviously still looking
for the Messiah's first coming.
I would give up trying to persuade me otherwise.My mind is made
up and nothing will ever change my point of views about Jesus.
Jesus is the way,the truth and the life...

reply to post by mamabeth


Then I feel sorry for you. Jesus never fulfilled the prophecies and I will never accept him in my life. You can wait for a dung beetle and it will do more then Jesus will ever do!
Why? you ask?
Look at the link!

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by etherical waterwave

 

Originally posted by etherical waterwave
I'd advise you to read the book Genesis if you want proof for God, further I can advise you to just look around.

How is a book written in the Bronze Age proof of any deity? And how is looking around proof of any deity?

Today, we are still living the Bronze Age aren't we, we still use bronze metal as tools etc. The proof of the Almighty is that there was writing. While you look around you look in the world the Almighty created.

And to feel your body.

Again, how is this proof of any deity?

You awaiting your death crawling at your keyboard every day can be used as proof of our holy Father.

Thinking is also proof of God.

How? I hope you just thought about that...

Knowing answers on questions proves God existence as your creator and creator of all things.

Again, how?

God knows all he made and can teach you about it. What it is, what purpose it can be used for and what you can make with it.

Nations on this disc named earth are proof of a creator, God Jehovah

Again, how? He's the creator

And the Earth isn't a disc, it's a sphere.

Who created it£?

Atheism/satanism is of proof that God exists.

How is atheism equated with satanism? One is disbelief in any deity while the other is the worship of a supernatural being?
And how would they be proof of any deity?

since you mentioned disbelief in any deity there must be a deity to not believe in, to reject the belief.

Man goes to police station to make note he was robbed by another, seeks justice. Justice is from the Lord.

You aren't providing logical connections, you're simply making statements.

Man goes to vineyard to make wine, he drinks wine and is merry. This merriment is from Dionysus.

Your comparison teaches not what mine did.



Your argument is nonsense.

Men seek knowledge and wisdom. Wisdom comes from the Lord. The opportunity gaining knowledge found in the world God created is proof of existence of God.

Again, where are the logical connections?

Saying justice and wisdom come from a supernatural source doesn't make it true nor does it form a logical statement.

kgnorf

and then you have THE MIGHT OF PRAYER

this is proof.

Then why hasn't there been any scientific evidence to prove 'the might of prayer' exists?

Science was so amazed by it they didn't even needed to search for proof of it.



Why hasn't 'the might of prayer' cured any illness? Why hasn't 'the might of prayer' healed an amputee? Who says it didnt?

Men who deny God will never allow proof of Him to be existent.

I'm not denying any deities. To deny something is to know it exists and then reject it.

It's amazing how one can deny truth in yourself, your body will begin to crawl like a snake on the floor when the kingdom comes.

I do not know of the existence of any deity, hence my questioning of those who do believe in them.

reply to post by Scramjet76


Well, I get what you're saying, it's essentially an extension of the old saying from Clarke that any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

But that doesn't make them deities, that simply makes them sufficiently advanced beings. The other problem is that you're simply arguing that it is possible, not that it is definite or provable.

I see the validity in the premise, but there isn't really a causation or proof that it is necessarily so.

I've also put forth the idea of gods being created or emerging during the course of existence. Somewhere buried in the history of this portion of ATS is a thread where I put forth the question of the possibility of previously existing gods that ceased to exist and such other nonclassical claims about deities.

reply to post by etherical waterwave


You're not really putting forth any argument. You're saying that random things prove the existence of your God without demonstrating the logical thought.

and on the subject of this:

since you mentioned disbelief in any deity there must be a deity to not believe in, to reject the belief.

No, there really doesn't have to be. I do not believe in any deities. By your logic that means that Thor, Ba'al, Poseidon, Isis, and Amaterasu exist as well.
That also means that there has to be geocentrism for me to not believe in, alchemy for me to not believe in, faeries at the bottom of my garden to not believe in, etc etc.

And with Earth you asked:

Who created it£?

Nobody. The Earth doesn't require a creator, natural forces could have formed it quite easily.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul

I see the validity in the premise, but there isn't really a causation or proof that it is necessarily so.

Obviously proof is neither attainable nor practical according to the theory. By definition it is this way.

As for causation I can think of one glaring one. When I was younger I used to always try and imagine what God would be like? The most common concepts associated with "God" are: omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence. How does one imagine being everywhere, knowing everything, and being all-powerful?

After some thinking, it seemed from my perspective to be a rather "boring life." There is no one to share it with. There are no surprises. No challenges to be met. No experience to be had. There is no purpose.

But, if God divided his infinite power up into an infinite "heirarchy" of beings, using the logic of causation you can give God a purpose.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


Hi Madness!

Hope you're doing well, and pardon me for saying God Bless you sir.

Will you listen with an open mind? I pray so, Dr. Chuck Missler has several strong arguments for you to ponder, please do so at your leisure.

Video

Talk to you soon,

RJ

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
Nobody. The Earth doesn't require a creator, natural forces could have formed it quite easily.

My friend, pardon my late arrival to the discussion, but could you please explain from whence these "Natural Forces" come from?

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM


It depends on how you define "natural forces". I need to know your definition of that term before I address anything about it.


reply to post by NOTurTypical


I'll take a look at it, it's only 10 minutes. However, I won't be able to do a play-by-play rebuttal if I disagree, as doing so with a 10 minute video would be something like 5000 words long, far too long to hold most people's attention.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


I'm sorry, I watched the first five minutes, the whole thing is predicated upon false conjectures and arguments from authority.

It's not even an argument for a deity, merely an argument to teach a specific interpretation of the Bible in public school, which is an entirely separate debate that I clearly stand on the opposite side of.

Now, I didn't watch the whole thing, but if you could possibly summarize points made in this and later videos that put forth proof of any deity, I'll examine them.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
It depends on how you define "natural forces". I need to know your definition of that term before I address anything about it.

Sorry my friend, I am trying to understand your thoughts on the matter. Therefore, define natural forces yourself and explain where you think they come from.

We already know from past conversations that I believe in God. Me defining natural forces for you would only clarify MY position to you, not yours to me.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


I really hoped you'd just see what the man had to say in it's entirety. The first video is a broad outline, the series begins to get juicy in the 2, 3rd, and 4th videos in the series.

That's all I had to share with you, hope your thread goes well friend.

But hey, I tried.

Have a great day.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Will you listen with an open mind? I pray so, Dr. Chuck Missler has several strong arguments for you to ponder, please do so at your leisure.

The arguments are not strong. In fact weak, and I'll tell you why:

1) In Part 1 you see this minister looking fellow (a fundamentalist who scares the crap out of most logical and progressive thinking types) talking about the importance of the bible. He quickly starts dropping statistics that I'll partially summarize-

a) Over last 30 years, a 560% increase in violent crime
b) Over last 30 years, a 400% increase in the divorce rate
c) Over last 30 years, a 75% decrease in SAT scores
d) Since 1963, breakup of family units has escalated drastically
c) Since 1963, acceptance of homosexuality has escalated drastically
e) Since 1963, Teen-age Pregnancies has escalated drastically

He follows these statistics with a manipulative statement about the bible being banned from schools in 1963... more than a mere coincidence in his mind. And he's right. The escalation of such things has risen in recent times but the fact is one doesn't need to use the bible (or lackthereof) to explain them.

By manipulating statistics and linking them to cultural phenomenon, he is only satisfying his picture of the world. It is not necessarily the truth. Check out this statistic:

Teen Preg Rate (Per 1000 females ages 15-19) Source

Netherlands- 12.8
Germany- 16.3
France- 22.6
US- 72.2

How does Europe do so well in keeping their teen preg rate down? I guess thier system of beliefs is better and therefore socialism is better than capitalism. See how stats can be manipulated?

This is why madness does not want to watch your youtube videos. Because the guy believes you can understand a being as complex as God after reading 1 book. That is just preposterous and arrogant IMO.

reply to post by Scramjet76


Look at the title of the thread. The "strong arguments" I speak of are his arguments for the Bible being a message code from something that exists outside our 4 dimensions, especially outside the dimension of time.

reply to post by IAMIAM


I'll define 'natural forces' as the fundamental forces as outlined in physics.

How did they get there? Well, I'm not necessarily sure. For all I know they existed prior to the universe or they're simply a result of how our universe came into being and other universes exist with entirely separate forces and governing laws.

But there not being a current scientific explanation isn't really grounds to say that any deity or group of deities is the explanation.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


I'd disagree with that on principle. It's a book that condones the ownership of human beings, the treatment of individuals differently depending on their nation of origin and religion, the mistreatment of rape victims, and has a very bizarre fascination with foreskin.

It may have a few good ideas tucked away in there, but it's got a lot of weird and entirely untrue stuff as well.

I'm also sure that a being that is higher than us wouldn't have let a book go to print with the gross error that pi = 3.0

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

I'd disagree with that on principle. It's a book that condones the ownership of human beings, the treatment of individuals differently depending on their nation of origin and religion, the mistreatment of rape victims, and has a very bizarre fascination with foreskin.

It may have a few good ideas tucked away in there, but it's got a lot of weird and entirely untrue stuff as well.

I'm also sure that a being that is higher than us wouldn't have let a book go to print with the gross error that pi = 3.0

Where does it condone the ownership of human beings? Secondly, I'm sorry, but you brought up Red Herring arguments. Just because you don't like certain things God requires has nothing to do with the text being proved to have originated from somewhere outside of our 4 dimensions, especially the dimension of time itself.

As far as your apparent contradiction, there isn't one. You're thinking of this verse from 2 Chronicles 4:2;

"Also he made a molten sea of ten cubits from brim to brim, round in compass, and five cubits the height thereof; and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about."

yes, if one stopped there and did the math there would be a contradiction. this disappears when you read 3 more verses and learn the that the brim was the size of a "hand-breadth". (2 Chron. 4:5) When you add the .225 cubits for a "hand-breadth" the inside radius of the brim is then 9.55 cubits when you subtract a hand-bredth measurement for each side of the brim, the numbers then fall into place perfectly. Skeptics usually take a verse completely out of context when they make "contradiction" claims against it.

Those making the claim failed to read 3 more verses later to get the final piece of the equation.