What happens when you see an unmarked car on your property and some guy snooping around

reply to post by Nutter


Not to mention that acting as a nuisance or being involved in highly dangerous activity qualifies as trespassing even when a business is open to the public. (which I don't believe this business was in the middle of the night.)

I think shooting the owner would most certainly qualify as a nuisance and highly dangerous activity.

My question is what happen to the Cop after the shooting? Is he free or in jail?

Now any LEO/FED that trespasses with out warrant on private property and shoots its owner should have the right to a speedy trial and upon being found guilty and out of appeal options be put to death in a manner fitting the crime they commited.

But aparently in most cases they come out as being above the law and get away with it. This must stop.

Originally posted by Nutter
You don't use someone's private property to perform a stakeout while not informing the property owner.

Have a source for that? Or are you just assuming?

Where would this stand now had the pastor been the better shot?

I'll take phone call to police for 500 alec.

What would have prevented the man from getting killed on his own property in the dark of night in an area of trouble when he spotted a car parked outside?

a phone call to the police alec?
Yes you are correct.
As a bonus follow up, please answer the following for an additional 500 points.

Would you be any less of a man if you called the police to respond to a situation such as this?

Ummm no Alec?
You are correct and youre our winner tonight.

Being armed is great, I'm armed to the teeth.
Using a public service for what it and they are designed for is also great.
It's what I pay some money for in my Twp.
I've had the police sit on my property, I've sat with the police on my property.
Yes it's obvious something went very wrong, sometimes stuff does,
go very wrong.

NOW, enter my home, present a danger to me or my family?,
I will also call the police, but now it's to give a statement for a justifiable shooting and to have your bloody crumpled heap hauled out of my home, in a bag, and I will within a few days be sleeping just as well as I had been in the past.

Originally posted by Jenna

Originally posted by Nutter
You don't use someone's private property to perform a stakeout while not informing the property owner.

Have a source for that? Or are you just assuming?

Please tell me what the cop was doing in an unmarked car on his property then.

Sleeping?

A stakeout is the coordinated hidden surveillance of a location or person for the purpose of gathering evidence, especially in regard to criminal activity.

en.wikipedia.org...

I guess according to you, this was NOT a stakeout?

Please post YOUR sources that state the cop was legally allowed to be on said property without consent from the owner. Thanks. Didn't think so.

[edit on 27-8-2010 by Nutter]

Originally posted by HappilyEverAfter
I'll take phone call to police for 500 alec.

And I'll take call to the owner to let them know a stakeout is underway for 10,000 alec.

What would have prevented the man from getting killed on his own property in the dark of night in an area of trouble when he spotted a car parked outside?

1. The police letting the owner know that a stakeout was underway.

2. The police not being in an unmarked car tresspassing on his property.

a phone call to the police alec?
Yes you are correct.

How about the police give some respect back to those who pay their salary and let them know that they will be trespassing on their property?

No, alec, couldn't have that now could we?

NOW, enter my home, present a danger to me or my family?,
I will also call the police, but now it's to give a statement for a justifiable shooting and to have your bloody crumpled heap hauled out of my home, in a bag, and I will within a few days be sleeping just as well as I had been in the past.

But it's ok to enter a man's property and then shoot him?

Originally posted by whatukno
The Pastor forgot the most important rule, you NEVER EVER approach a strange car at night.

You call the cops. Tell them about the strange car you see on your property and have them deal with it.

C'mon, where I work that's just standard procedure, and freaking common sense. I see some strange idling car not in a parking space or people acting suspiciously, I call the cops. The cops deal with it. You dealing with it is only begging for something to go wrong.

I know this thread soon will be overrun with cop haters, but listen to me for a second.

Someone pulls up onto your property that you don't know, it is in your best interests to call the police right away. I know that a lot of people think they can handle anything, but stupidity usually rewards itself painfully.

In this case what would have saved this mans life is a minute to call the cops and describe the car. The cop in the car would have been called and the situation probably would have ended a lot better.

I know this post is going to be ignored for the usual venom and hatred for the cops as per standard ATS fare, but really, common sense people.
[edit on 8/27/2010 by whatukno]

Let me make sure I got this right..... a police officer in an unmarked car, invites himself onto your property and if you go to check it out and end up dead, you blame the victim?

Maybe in your glorified girlie world do you just call the cops, but in my world if you are on my property I will come out and find out who you are. If you happen to be armed, you better be a faster draw and a better shot than I am.
What you call "common sense" I call being a wussy.

Let me ask you..... what if you call the cops and they don't show up? I dont live on Park Ave, there are many calls in my area that are flat out ignored because they are not a priority, and some stranger sitting in a car and not doing anything. is one of those low priority calls

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


Good thing I shoot first, then ask who you are

Originally posted by slinger
reply to post by thisguyrighthere

 

Good thing I shoot first, then ask who you are

Another reason LEOs shouldn't be trespassing in unmarked cars in the middle of the night on people's property without permission. Invited hours earlier or not.

reply to post by MrWendal


Let me break this down for you and I will use simple words so that you can understand.

Let me make sure I got this right..... a police officer in an unmarked car, invites himself onto your property and if you go to check it out and end up dead, you blame the victim?

No, I don't blame the victim for being shot by the police officer that was on his property, I blame the victim for not using common sense and so allowing a situation that could have been cleared up by a simple phone call to escalate to the point where he ended up dead.

Maybe in your glorified girlie world do you just call the cops, but in my world if you are on my property I will come out and find out who you are. If you happen to be armed, you better be a faster draw and a better shot than I am.
What you call "common sense" I call being a wussy.

Apparently the old man believed the same way you do, apparently he went out armed and look what happened.

Again, if he had called the cops, the dispatcher on the phone could have told him the car in his parking lot was a cop and so the old man might not have had to go out and investigate on his own.

Let me ask you..... what if you call the cops and they don't show up? I dont live on Park Ave, there are many calls in my area that are flat out ignored because they are not a priority, and some stranger sitting in a car and not doing anything. is one of those low priority calls

I don't live in park avenue either, and when I worked in Detroit, going out to a strange car is about the dumbest thing you can do.

Of course again in this case with the strange car being a cop, a simple phone call to the cops would have solved the mystery of the strange car quickly and without anyone having to die.

So like I said, common sense should have prevailed, apparently you don't have this vital skill and I do hope that you learn it. Things like this can be prevented if people actually think before trying to be a hero themselves.

[edit on 8/27/2010 by whatukno]

Originally posted by whatukno
No, I don't blame the victim for being shot by the police officer that was on his property, I blame the victim for not using common sense and so allowing a situation that could have been cleared up by a simple phone call to escalate to the point where he ended up dead.

I have to ask. Do you blame the cops for this simple common sense malfunction in not informing the owner of the property they would be staked out at to begin with? Or is it all layed on the man's hands?

Again, if he had called the cops, the dispatcher on the phone could have told him the car in his driveway was a cop and so the old man might not have had to go out and investigate on his own.

Again. If the cops had called the property owner first and the old man might not have had to go out and investigate on his own and get killed.

Of course again in this case with the strange car being a cop, a simple phone call to the cops would have solved the mystery of the strange car quickly and without anyone having to die.

Of course again, in this case, a phone call from the cops would have stopped a mystery from even happening and without anyone having to die.

Why is it this man's fault that the cops didn't inform him that they would be staking his property out while on said property?

So like I said, common sense should have prevailed, apparently you don't have this vital skill and I do hope that you learn it. Things like this can be prevented if people actually think before trying to be a hero themselves.

This includes the LEOs.

[edit on 27-8-2010 by Nutter]

This is interesting:

Can a police officer park on private property with their lights off at night to patrol a stop sign?

If the private property is a residence NO unless the owner has given permission. If it is a business YES as the public police included have right of access.

wiki.answers.com...

I doubt the man gave permission to be on his property let alone be killed.

[edit on 27-8-2010 by Nutter]

reply to post by Nutter


So now you want to purposely lie in order to make your point?

The uniformed officer was parked in an unmarked car in the empty parking lot of Creach’s businesses, the Plant Farm at 14208 E. Fourth Ave. and Creach Greenhouse adjacent to the Plant Farm.

www.spokesman.com...

So he was parked in the business parking lot and so it was legal for the cop to be there.

Your lies fail.

[edit on 8/27/2010 by whatukno]

Originally posted by Nutter
So, they patrol areas of crime in unmarked cars nowdays?

They use what they call a slim line patrol car. Its the politically correct way of saying unmarked. It is so they can catch you speeding, not like how unmarked cars used to be to catch drug dealers.

The police should always be identifiable especially at night. The police are a deterrent and should not be sneaking around trying to fool us. They have become prey animals, always trying to catch us making moving violations instead of being a visible deterrent. The fact that they are operating the way they do in these slim line cars means they are just trying to tax us.

Because of there operating procedure they cost a good man his life. That is the bottom line.

reply to post by getreadyalready

You are 100% right, I have CCW permit. You warn first, then if they keep
coming toward you. You empty the magzine into their chest. Guess, cops
can shoot without warning if they feel threaten. Still the bottom line is murder.
The cop needs to stand before a jury of 12 period, and the pastor
needs to be carrried by 6.
Sad thing to hear

Well, LEOS are supposed to wear their vests at all times. Yes it is hot and it hurts like hell when the vest stops larger rounds but the officer had no reason to shoot first if he did. When he did shoot he should have done the kill shot as a last resort. Did he even identify himself as a LEO? Did he just shoot a man with a gun if he in fact had one? Definitely need more facts.

This is a tragic story that didn't need to end the way it did but it's also a shame that too often people base conclusions and opinions on too many assumptions and not enough available information.

An unmarked car versus a marked car depends upon ones point of view and the situation, in my opinion. Would you care to deter crime in a marked car by showing a legal enforcement presence or would you care to stop crime in an unmarked car while seeing it committed? If you choose the marked car option then one could argue you're going to need more marked cars more frequently in order to be seen and deter crime merely by presence. With some believing there are already too many cops I question why they would want more. If you choose the unmarked car option then one could argue you can stop crime by removing those responsible for it by catching them in the first place.

In a speeding or traffic situation, especially the excellent example like getreadyalready mentioned, I fully agree with marked cars over unmarked cars. The situation being discussed is different for me. The article mentioned that burglaries nearly doubled in the area as well reports of car prowlings almost tripling. Would one prefer to stop the crime here or simply deter it, possibly to a different location? There appears to be a genuine crime issue at this location and I think most would want it stopped entirely.

The allegations by a few that the gun found on the ground was planted by the police is unfounded as the article clearly states otherwise. Posting such nonsense only proves not reading the story and making assumptions based on personal feelings and agendas instead of looking at the information available.

...had been protecting his property for 15 years and had gone out at night to check on the land armed with a gun.

The assumptions by a few regarding no investigation and the cop simply getting away with it are also unfounded for the same reasons.

Spokane police were investigating the incident under a protocol that calls for city police to investigate officer-involved incidents taking place in the Spokane County Sheriff’s Office, which staffs Spokane Valley Police.

Let's set the scene. Earlier in the day, there was a request for increased patrols in the area. The graveyard shift received and followed the request. Now we have cops looking for thieves and a property owner still looking for thieves. As Nutter posted, and corrected by whatukno, it appears that it was legal for the cop to be where he was without justification of contacting the property owner. Could the cop have called as a courtesy? Yes. Is it feasible to call all property owners within a certain distance? It's questionable. I could even see some citing privacy issues by the cops finding out who lives where and contacting them. Did the cop have information that the property owner of the business also resided on adjoining property? It's unknown. There's a lot of unanswered questions here and entirely too many unknowns to place blame on anyone at this point.

The property owner went out at night, without any mention of lights being turned on or a flashlight being carried, to determine the situation. I purposely left out the property owners profession, age and gender to not give any bias and since at night, without any lights, it's not relevant in the cops' eyes as he most likely just saw an unknown person. This doesn't sound much different than the marked versus unmarked cop car issue. I could even see one interpreting it as two wrongs don't make a right. Did the cop shine his light when he saw the unknown person approach him? Unknown. Did the cop see the unknown person approach? Unknown. Make your presence known on either side of the law or the chances of something deadly happening will increase. If you're possibly attempting to sneak up on someone and potentially catch them in the act you're setting yourself up for a different encounter than if you announce yourself. As a citizen, you're entitled to protect yourself and property but also take a chance by doing so and not knowing what you may encounter. I can't wait for someone to misconstrue that last sentence.

There's simply not enough information at this point to determine what actions transpired from this point. I can speculate that either of them did something during the confrontation that was wrong, maybe even both of them.

Well, since everyone is covering this pretty well, I just have a couple observations.

First off, anytime an officer enters private property, they should by LAW inform the owner.

Second, so now the argument of the fervent cop defenders is that if the cop feels threatened, they are justified in murder.

Great, so with all the accounts of murder by cop, I myself am justified in killing a cop before they kill me? Does it work THAT WAY?

Lastly, I bet everyone involved in this whole thing, excluding the Murdering Cop, wishes the pastor met up with a NORMAL criminal, instead of the type with a badge.

He probably would not have died then.

How bout that?

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by Nutter

 

So now you want to purposely lie in order to make your point?

The uniformed officer was parked in an unmarked car in the empty parking lot of Creach’s businesses, the Plant Farm at 14208 E. Fourth Ave. and Creach Greenhouse adjacent to the Plant Farm.

www.spokesman.com...

So he was parked in the business parking lot and so it was legal for the cop to be there.

Your lies fail.

Hmm. My lies?

You forgot to quote the entire point. Wonder why?

Creach, who lives next door to his nursery and has served as pastor of Greenacres Baptist Church for 40 years, approached the officer. A confrontation ensued, according to police.

Since the house and business are on the same property, they are considered his personal property.

Just because he sells some plants on his property does not make it a business like wally world where no one lives.

See the difference yet?



[edit on 28-8-2010 by Nutter]