Taqiyya: in regards to "moderate Mulsims"

Before I start this post I would like to make a few things clear:

1. I have no personal religion - I am not Christian, I am not Jewish , and I’m not any other religion that would be likely to create this post.

2. Am I an Atheist? No. I do believe there is a grand design to our universe.

3. Am I racist? Good question - I don’t personally think so. I tend to look at the actions of individuals and organized groups before putting in my two cents.

4. Why did I write this? I like to consider myself one of the few in America who still believes in the overall idea of “freedom”. Do I even agree with 25% of the decisions my government makes? NO.

5. Why this specific religion? Because I love my current amount of freedom. I will do everything I can to protect it, and I see this specific religion as an immediate threat to my freedom. It is the only one, in my mind, that could truly affect the freedoms that I and my countrymen currently enjoy. More than anything, by shear numbers. When Muslims become the majority in any country, they will declare Shariah Law. This bodes doom for my own level of freedom.

We have seen Nazis. We have seen Communism. We have seen the ideologies of true monsters over the last 2000 years. It’s about time that at least one country, although hopefully many, take a stand against “world tyranny” long before it happens this time.

I do not consider Islam a Religion at this point. I consider them a socio-economic, political, world party that seeks the domination of all.

Because the most common attacks on this type of post is to use a “reverse attack” on Christianity and Judaism, I will try to do my best following each section to compare the religions, in actual fact, not just emotional, or for that matter “planted” idealism.

As I stated before, I belong to NO religion. Do not address me as Christian, Jewish, Atheist, Wiccan, Satanist, or any other religion.

As a NON-RELIGOUS person, I see the Islamic religion as a direct and immediate threat to my freedoms and my life.

That being said, I will state my post.

1. Taqiyya and the “moderate Muslim”


Taqiyya was something I learned about around a year ago. Rather that copying other peoples research, I would rather state my own point on it and leave the articles at the end for people to research themselves. You will either learn what I have learned, or you will simply deny it, not research it, and go on with your daily lives. Those that do not research this will ignore a coming evil of the likes you can not imagine.

My personal opinion:

Taqiyya is the demand by Mohammed to “lie” to the infidels.

Simple and sweet. Mohammed used this tactic in a war type manner several times throughout his life and then preached deception after the fact. If you are a devout Muslim, it is your responsibility to lie to all non believers regarding your religion. “Moderate” Muslims are either:

1. Unaware, of what is being taught (I will get into this later).
2. Very aware Muslims, who are simply following the faith of their leader, Mohammed, and lying to you to promote the true purpose of their religion, which is, has been, and will always be world domination, through Shariah law.

The links on this are as follows:

www.islam-watch.org...

www.thereligionofpeace.com...

www.meforum.org...

www.al-islam.org...

www.danielpipes.org...

www.answering-islam.org...

www.hauns.com...

There are hundreds more, but hopefully you get the point.


As promised, I will discuss the Bible and the Torah every time I finish a segment.

1. Do either the Bible or the Torah, commend lying and deception? I know the response will be, “No, the Christians and Jews lie on their own.” Even so, that makes them individuals and not a group of people lying and using acts of deception because their “Holy Book” commands it.


Part 2: Contradictions in the Koran:

This is very simple. Mohammed started out as a peace loving “prophet”, and then later became a war mongering megalomaniac. It states specifically in the Koran, that any time a contradiction appears, to automatically refer to the “latter” statements vs. the “earlier” statements. Therefore all “Moderate Muslims” Either do not understand this, or are referring to the earlier scripture under the defined terms of Taqiyya”

Islam is not a religion of peace, it is one of war:

Following links:

www.beholdthebeast.com...

wikiislam.net...

www.babylonforsaken.com...

www.liveleak.com...

www.rim.org...


Part 3. The life of Mohammed:

For this I am glad I live in a Country where freedom of speech is still allowed., “Other than the death threats against “South Park”. Anybody who dares to attack Mohammed is automatically doomed to death. Sorry, not going to be docile quite that quickly, because I am a freedom loving American, and I can see you coming from thousands of miles away. The life of Mohammed started as one of peace, before he became the war mongering, megalomaniac, that dominates the later parts of the Koran.

Sources: (though few of the many)

www.cyberistan.org...

www.thereligionofpeace.com...

www.google.com...=The+life+of+Mohammed&hl=en&tbs=tl:1&tbo=u&ei=wzhzTO_pKsP2nAeml5GsDw&sa=X&oi=timeline_result&ct=title&resnum=11&ved=0CEEQ5wIwC g&fp=ad526d12389e3c08


Part 4.:

Evidence the takeover is already happening.

The “Extremist Muslims” Have already figured out this game. It is very simple, “pick the countries that are the most politically correct, take over there first. Then continue to take over from there when we have enough political power to do so.”

Europe was the first source of attack. They were the first ones willing to allow mass immigration. They were the most politically correct western region in the world. They are paying for it now and will continue to do so until they are under Shariah law.

Sources:

www.youtube.com...


www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...//www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DCS-GLzHK1mY%26p%3DC2F97B29C82A092C%26playnext%3D1%26index%3D5

www.youtube.com...

It is said that in 50 years The Muslim population will be the majority in Europe. At which time it will be “very easy to convert and control all local laws”. Others have said they only need ten years to accomplish this through the “majority of Europe”.

A note to the Muslim Empire. You may think, that because of our politicians, our “Hollywood representatives”, and the PC who inhabit our websites, that we are “prime for the picking”. The truth is we are the one country who will stand up to you, no matter what.


Summary: The fact remains that this entire religion is based on the words of one man. That’s right, just one. This man was a war monger and a pedophile. “unless you think taking a nine year old bride is OK.” Which some of you will. This religion is a real and direct threat, and should not be under any form of PC protection. If you are American, and you care about your country, you can still fight this. If you are European, it may be too late.

I liked your post, not that I agree with it, but how you put it together. Im not an expert on the muslim faith...I do seem to find lots of contradictions in it, which, i'll be honest I dont understand all that well. It was my understanding that they call it a "religion of peace" and yet in the Koran, doesn't it state for them to kill nonbelievers? So in my eyes, it really is a militant religion. But then I know muslims and they seem respectful and courteous, so they must be genuine, right? Then you bring up the lie angle.....I had never heard that before. If indeed deception is the name of their game, then we could all be doomed. However, I'll have to give them the benefit of the doubt..because I dont know for sure at this point..

In my eyes this group needs to be subdued before any NWO takes place....Im still trying to think how that happens. Most people say war....Id say a worldwide event that unites us all (use your imagination and fill in the blank)



Ps: you could have just said you were a deist without a religion, couldn't you?

[edit on 8/23/2010 by The Endtime Warrior]

reply to post by The Endtime Warrior


Thank you for your reply. Please visit each of the links I provided for more information, specifically those relating to Europe. It is very easy to look up Taqiyya, and see the part it plays in this religion that was dictated by one man, over a thousand years ago.

reply to post by dreamwalker74


One of the best posts on ATS.

All religions are political terrorist cults. Islam is just the current worst one.
And the NWO will be happy to convert as it will the allow the elite to have polygamy along with their slavery. Though in the future it will be the dimis or christians who will be the slaves.

Originally posted by RRokkyy
reply to post by dreamwalker74

 

Though in the future it will be the dimis or christians who will be the slaves.

What are dimis?

reply to post by RRokkyy


I agree and if I was part of the elite/ NWO/ TPTB. I would do my darndests to promote Political correctness everywhere I could. It is the one true way to ultimate dominance.

reply to post by The Endtime Warrior


I agree, I haven't heard the term Dimis. Though I'm "old" and slow to catch on to new web terms.

I need to go to sleep now ATS. Will see you in the morning.

Your websites are all biased. They want to prove their point which is always the same one.
I don't think the majority of Muslims want to live in countries where sharia is ruling (Algerians can testify about it, they had a bad experience with it). Please don't mix extremist Muslims and the others. But, for sure, the most you'll attack them, the most they will want to follow an extremist vision of their religion.
And it's completely false Muslims will dominate Europe within 50 years, let alone install Sharia. Our traditions and identity are powerful enough to prevent it
Maybe, you could ask yourself why you hate so much the Muslims? Maybe the documentary Reel Bad Arabs will give you an answer.

Google Video Link

[edit on 24/8/2010 by jeanne75018]

reply to post by dreamwalker74

May I remind you that we have freedom of religion in America? It's in the Constitution.

To suppress that freedom in regards to any particular religious group is to violate one of our most cherished rights.

If an individual Muslim breaks the law and/or commits a violent crime, then of course he or she should be apprehended and tried, just as a Christian, Jew, Buddhist or etc. would be. Short of that you can't prosecute or take away the freedom of a whole faith just because it's one you don't personally approve of.

To elevate one faith while suppressing another would put us on the road to a totalitarian state, which you appear to fear, much faster than religious tolerance ever will.

reply to post by dreamwalker74


Why do you think it's (Islam) a popular subject lately ?

Do you think you bring anything new to ATS ?

Do you think you're original ?

How much do you get paid?

(Because if you say you do this free, well common now, you could probably
get a very high paying job in this field (demagogy), you're a natural.)


Oh yeah, by the way, about the "South Park" thing....

en.wikipedia.org...




[edit on 24-8-2010 by samsamm9]

Originally posted by Sestias
reply to post by dreamwalker74

 

May I remind you that we have freedom of religion in America? It's in the Constitution.

To suppress that freedom in regards to any particular religious group is to violate one of our most cherished rights.

If an individual Muslim breaks the law and/or commits a violent crime, then of course he or she should be apprehended and tried, just as a Christian, Jew, Buddhist or etc. would be. Short of that you can't prosecute or take away the freedom of a whole faith just because it's one you don't personally approve of.

To elevate one faith while suppressing another would put us on the road to a totalitarian state, which you appear to fear, much faster than religious tolerance ever will.

The OP has explained very clearly how the Muslims have infiltrated various non-Muslim nations and through population expansion will use the largely open western democratic systems against themselves to eventually dominate and oust those same systems replacing them with Sharia. The moderate Muslims are an unwitting Trojan horse. They have come to escape the mullahs and brought their book with them. They might as well have brought a black hole with them. Their "book" was written to combat the other oppressive "books" and theirs is without equal in tyrannical oppressive verse. And as far as I know, there is no "lite version", sans all the oppression.

Yes, our constitution has handcuffed us in this matter. There were provisions for amendments to that document, it was seen as flawed from the start. The founders were a wily bunch of scalawags themselves and were adept at both using and working around written law. They knew there would be exceptions to the rules they could never envision. Islam in 2010 is one of those exceptions.

For now, most are content to throw the existing constitution at this problem just for auld lang syne. "It had served us well for nearly 250 years!" A joyful epitaph for both a document and a nation. I can foresee a day when you and I, if we are both males, will discuss the historical aspects of constitutional law on our walk to evening prayers. In hushed tones of course. Allah be praised.

reply to post by samsamm9


One thread and 32 posts in a year and a half. If I were a skeptic I might think yours was simply a cover name for a more active member that didn't want to face the heat directly. Enjoy your subterfuge.

reply to post by dreamwalker74


Sorry dreamwalker, it would be an understatement to call you a racist, you are a person who hates more than one quarter of the world population, and I suspect you would give two thumbs up if all of them were sent to concentration camps.

In regards to Taqiya:

Taqiya is only applicable if your life is in danger

See you would lie to me also if I told you, hey, if you believe in GOD, I will kill you, well at least if I had a gun to your head, that is when you will be squirming and saying I don't believe, I don't believe.

It is in the Quran, why not go and find the verse for us, instead of posting couple of hate sites which are very famous amongst your kind.

Read the Quran sometimes, and take it to one of those anti-Ground Zero Mosque protests lol..



[edit on 24-8-2010 by oozyism]

[edit on 24-8-2010 by oozyism]

Your definitions of taqiyyah seem to leave out the important part of 'only allowed to lie about being a Muslim in the occurrance of injury or death.'

Muslims aren't allowed to lie to non-muslims just for the sake of lying, they have to have the immediate threat of injury or death. This practice came about during the crusades, when Christians would injure or kill any Muslim they came across. It was a self-protective measure without threat of holy wrath.

As to what a 'dhimmi' is, it's defined as any non-muslim living in Islamic lands. It's usage is primarily in regards to taxation and usage rights of non-muslims in Islamic lands.

While I applaud your independent research and attempts to be neutral I'd suggest using less skewed views for your sources in the future.

reply to post by dreamwalker74


so, you are the person who spread disinformation....

The practice of concealing one’s faith in dangerous circumstances originates in the Qur’an itself, which deems blameless those who disguise their beliefs in such cases [3]. The practice of taqiyya in difficult circumstances is considered legitimate by Muslims of various persuasions. Sunni and Shi’i commentators alike observe that Q 16:106 in particular refers to the case of ‘Ammar b. Yasir, who was forced to renounce his beliefs under physical duress and torture.

it is only applicable if your life is in danger.

reply to post by oozyism


Firstly Taqiyya can be used under any percieved threat. Such as being surrounded by non believers, who are the enemy of Allah. All enemies of Allah are a percieved threat.

Secondly, if 1/4 of the world population were goose stepping nazi's, I would still speak unkindly of them as well.

Third, I am not a "racist" I am an "islamaphobe", which is a badge I wear proudly, because I believe it is warranted.

Why do I get the feeling you posted this thread after watching this video?



If you have this video posted in the You Tube links on this thread you'll have to forgive me, but, all the links are not working for me at this time.

Please provide direct links to where in the Quran it states Taqiyya can be used anyplace, anywhere, anytime. I'd be interested where you came up with that information - other than the video I provided.

Thanks
peace

edit = spelling

[edit on 24-8-2010 by silo13]

reply to post by silo13


Yep seen that one and hundreds of others, and document after document. It would be very difficult to run out of studiable information on this topic. Though most will never look.

reply to post by silo13


Also as stated earlier, Taqiyya may be used any time there is a "percieved threat". According to the Koran, all non-believers, are the enemies of Allah, and would wish to do you harm. I think that pretty much allows a blanket excuse. They simply can't lie to other Muslims.