Send Tamil migrants home: Poll

reply to post by FreeSpeaker


I have to disagree with this. Just in the TO area we have 2 Chinatowns. Brampton is basically SE Asian and this hasn't been happening this week. It's been going on for decades. Again in TO. Caribanna. Greektown. Italian sectors, Jewish sectors. Stay away from Jane and Finch though.

This is not meant to be demeaning in any way, what part of the country do you live in?

Originally posted by SmedleyBurlap
reply to post by FreeSpeaker

 

Haha, I grabbed this link before I read down to peck420's post.
www.cic.gc.ca...

There are two ways to apply for refugee protection in Canada:

* You can make a claim when you arrive in Canada, at the port of entry. This could be at an airport, a seaport or a Canada-United States border crossing. At ports of entry, claims are received by officers of the Canada Border Services Agency.
* You can also make a claim from within Canada at a Citizenship and Immigration Canada office.

Check and mate

edit: emphasis added

[edit on 24-8-2010 by SmedleyBurlap]

God your off base. To arrive in Canada you must first have a passport to do so. How many refugees have passports or any ID.

Check and mate he says. Unbelievable.

Originally posted by intrepid
reply to post by FreeSpeaker

 

I have to disagree with this. Just in the TO area we have 2 Chinatowns. Brampton is basically SE Asian and this hasn't been happening this week. It's been going on for decades. Again in TO. Caribanna. Greektown. Italian sectors, Jewish sectors. Stay away from Jane and Finch though.

This is not meant to be demeaning in any way, what part of the country do you live in?

I didn't say it started yesterday and I still stand by what I said. I live in Manitoba, Canada's murder and crime capital. Need I say more? The police are ready to implode here dealing with african and asian gangs.

reply to post by FreeSpeaker


I am sorry, do you have a government source that says you need a passport to land in Canada to claim refugee status? Because the government source that peck420 and I linked to says that

Make sure you bring all the identification you may have with you, including your passport, driver’s licence and any other documents.

The officer receiving your refugee claim will assess whether your case is eligible to be referred to the Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada (IRB) for a decision.

Passports are not mandatory, but they would certainly help your assessment! Besides which, you must show them your passport... after you arrive in Canada.

reply to post by FreeSpeaker


Manitoba? This makes sense now. He's not joking, bad situation there. Sucks even more so because it used to be the bed of Canadian civility and acceptance.

Originally posted by intrepid
reply to post by FreeSpeaker

 

Manitoba? This makes sense now. He's not joking, bad situation there. Sucks even more so because it used to be the bed of Canadian civility and acceptance.

Thank you for realising that. Trust me when I say things are getting "hot" in this city.

Originally posted by SmedleyBurlap
reply to post by FreeSpeaker

 

I am sorry, do you have a government source that says you need a passport to land in Canada to claim refugee status? Because the government source that peck420 and I linked to says that

Make sure you bring all the identification you may have with you, including your passport, driver’s licence and any other documents.

The officer receiving your refugee claim will assess whether your case is eligible to be referred to the Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada (IRB) for a decision.

Passports are not mandatory, but they would certainly help your assessment! Besides which, you must show them your passport... after you arrive in Canada.

You can't be seroius. Try to make an international flight without a passport. Its not done.

[edit on 24-8-2010 by FreeSpeaker]

reply to post by FreeSpeaker


They came on a boat, not a plane. They followed the rules, as explained in the above link, by presenting whatever ID they had to immigration officers, so that their refugee claims could be assessed. If they do not have sufficient ID or fail the criteria otherwise, then they will be rejected on a case by case basis. If they have their documents and are granted refugee status then it will be because they satisfied the legal criteria for refugee claims.

You are trying very hard to make these refugees seem as though they broke the law by coming here without warning, but the law says that this is permissible, as long as their claim assessment checks out. You have not proved that they are doing anything wrong, and the evidence is mounting that you are wrong.

edit: Behold the caption of the image in the Sun article;

A man looks out from the MV Sun Sea after he and about 500 Tamil migrants arrived on the cargo ship at Canadian Forces Base Esquimalt, B.C. August 13, 2010. (Reuters)

I'm sure the military is very lax about enforcing the rules!

[edit on 24-8-2010 by SmedleyBurlap]

reply to post by FreeSpeaker


Hope you're right. I'm in USA but it's the only logical thing to do. Canada, like the USA, has a legal immigration process and should select its immigrants one at a time in order from among the applicants.

The smuggler is like the Mexican smugglers who lead a bunch of illegal immigrants across the Mexico-USA border. The smuggling failed, they were caught, the boat should be sent back and he should have to figure out how to pay back the smuggling fees he was paid, as no doubt those people will not have much of a sense of humor about it.

Tamil Tigers for goodness sake!

Originally posted by SmedleyBurlap
They came on a boat, not a plane.

Not meaning to be a dick Smedley but it's damn near impossible to get to Winnipeg by boat. That's where he is from. It IS a hotbed of crime right now, mostly because of gangs. It's a BIG country and we have to be a little more lenient when looking at other regions. I remember Winnipeg as the most tolerant city in the country. Google the crime rates there now. I think only Saskatoon is worse.

reply to post by intrepid


I suppose FreeSpeaker is talking about a different group of migrants, then. I was talking about the Tamil boat people in B.C. that I thought this thread was about. It did turn into a fairly general debate about immigration and refugees, though, so maybe I am off-base.

edit: Response to oniongrass below; If they are Tamil Tigers, then they will likely be rejected because the Canadian government considers the LTTE a terrorist group. A few of them may be accepted though, because they would be most likely to suffer torture or cruel and unusual punishment if they went back home. It's up to immigration officers to determine whether or not they are enemies of Canadian values and/or deserve Canada's protection.

[edit on 24-8-2010 by SmedleyBurlap]

I guess the Tamil Tigers will claim they are refugees, because their attempt to overthrow the government failed?

This is not the evacuation of Saigon. We did not support the Tamil Tigers. As far as I know Canada did not either. Therefore they are more like enemy combatants than refugees!

Chew on this a little if you think things are fine with Canadian immigration.

There is no credible information available on illegal immigration in Canada. Estimates range between 35,000 and 120,000 illegal immigrants in Canada.[57] James Bissett, a former head of the Canadian Immigration Service, has suggested that the lack of any credible refugee screening process, combined with a high likelihood of ignoring any deportation orders, has resulted in tens of thousands of outstanding warrants for the arrest of rejected refugee claimants, with little attempt at enforcement.[58] Unlike in the U.S., refugee claimants in Canada do not have to attempt re-entry to learn the status of their claim. A 2008 report by the Auditor General Sheila Fraser stated that Canada has lost track of as many as 41,000 illegal immigrants.[59][60] This number is predicted to increase drastically with the expiration of temporary employer work permits issued in 2007 and 2008, which were not renewed in many cases because of the shortage of work due to the recession.[61]

Source

"the lack of any credible refugee screening process, combined with a high likelihood of ignoring any deportation orders, has resulted in tens of thousands of outstanding warrants for the arrest of rejected refugee claimants, with little attempt at enforcement."

Yep everything is fine, nothing to see here. Move along now.
Thats sarcasm if anyone misses it.

Originally posted by SmedleyBurlap
I suppose FreeSpeaker is talking about a different group of migrants, then. I was talking about the Tamil boat people in B.C. that I thought this thread was about. It did turn into a fairly general debate about immigration and refugees, though, so maybe I am off-base.
[edit on 24-8-2010 by SmedleyBurlap]

With the major race gang crime in my city, how can I not be overly concerned about a bunch of possible defeated militants coming here? Especially with the major flaws in our screening process as stated in my last post.

reply to post by FreeSpeaker


That does seem to be a serious problem, so I read the National Post article that it cites.

network.nationalpost.com...

It makes a big point about 'thousands' of Mexican 'refugees' entering the country through the U.S., and suggests reforming the refugee system so that the government can declare certain countries 'safe' and thereby reduce the number of bogus claims from those countries. This seems sensible enough, maybe you should petition your MP to push for stricter enforcement of the law instead of pre-judging refugee claimants.

You should remember that illegal immigration is not the same thing as seeking asylum. Those who are abusing the system should be and will be, by and large, rejected. I did not disagree about that. Reforms should be made to make this process more efficient.

Originally posted by SmedleyBurlap
Those who are abusing the system should be and will be, by and large, rejected. I did not disagree about that. Reforms should be made to make this process more efficient.

You would think but these bastards know the system, use the system to their advantage. Remember Earsnt Zundell? Holocaust denier? He was in my jail for years, awaiting extradition to Germany. Fought it tooth and nail. Well he's where he belongs now.

I'm saying Smedley that you can abuse our system if you know it. It's a "Sucks donut."

Originally posted by Merigold

It's my hope that one day we will see the whole world as our neighbours. I know it's an idealistic pipe dream, but one can hope?

I do see all the world as my neighbor. I'll even go beyond that and say I see all of mankind as my brothers/sisters.

BUT.......

In the past, it was "ok" (kinda) to over populate a region, destroy or consume all your resources, and move on to another region, rinse, and repeat. There was plenty of uninhabited land in centuries past. Now, this is not the case. There are no more "undiscovered" continents awaiting our excess populations. We have no where left to go when we consume or destroy our environment, or allow our political systems to degrade into tyranny.

Now is the time in the human story for us to learn to manage ourselves. Our brothers and sisters around the world are going to have to learn to use birth control, or face the natural consequences of not doing that. They are going to have to seize control of their governments and religious institutions, or face the natural consequences for doing that. We are going to have to face the natural consequences of our overconsuming, our inattention to our government, and all that that entails.

We need to learn to manage our population, our consumption of resources, and our environments if we are going to make it as a species. Fleeing to somewhere else when we screw up isnt an option anymore. It had to end someday, and it sure does seem like that someday is now.

Originally posted by SmedleyBurlap
You should remember that illegal immigration is not the same thing as seeking asylum. Those who are abusing the system should be and will be, by and large, rejected. I did not disagree about that. Reforms should be made to make this process more efficient.

Please re-read this statement.

Originally posted by FreeSpeaker

Source

"the lack of any credible refugee screening process, combined with a high likelihood of ignoring any deportation orders, has resulted in tens of thousands of outstanding warrants for the arrest of rejected refugee claimants, with little attempt at enforcement."

This is speaking directly about the system that is overseeing the screening of the Tamil refugees and quite clearly implies things aren't working. The system is failing and Canada is feeling the effects. It can't be denied.

You also can't deny that as the defeated enemies of the legitimate Sri Lanken government and as a labeled terrorist group, the Tamils represent just about as high a risk as one could imagine.

I want to be clear on one thing, this isn't the fault of the migrants who have come to Canada, how could it be? they didn't create the laws to which the majority are complying. But I deplore the methods in which these refugees arrived. I believe we need to slow things down until we can enforce our laws properly before we handle cases like this or we will end up like the USA.

reply to post by FreeSpeaker

I believe we need to slow things down until we can enforce our laws properly before we handle cases like this or we will end up like the USA.

That's a much more calm and sober demand and I can agree with it. I think that the laws are good, but if they are not being enforced effectively enough then they should be.

The Tamils are not the same as the LTTE. It is unjust to pre-judge these refugee claimants in the way that you have in this thread. We do not know yet if they have legitimate claims, or if they have suficient ID, or if they are/were members of the Tamil Tigers, or their intent with regard to migrating to Canada. It isn't just to judge them as a whole, either; some may turn out to be Tigers, others may have legitimate claims. Some may be here for their own convenience, but that does not mean that they have no intent to work and contribute to this country - as long as they feel welcome, and part of the community.

If they are there with intent to work and contribute, I'm sure they will be welcomed to apply through normal channels along with others ahead of them in line who are also expressing intentions to work and contribute. Along with their willingness to work and contribute, I expect that Canada would want to evaluate their skills and ability to contribute in areas of Canada's need.

While they did not create Canada's laws, they knew or should have known something of Canada's immigration process before presuming to come to Canada. I expect they could have had internet access while still in Sri Lanka to check this.

[edit on 24-8-2010 by oniongrass]