My situation, what would you do?

Hello ATS! This is my first thread. I know this isn't the typical ATS topic but I'm really not sure where else I could go to receive a wide range of advise on my subject.

My fiance is a Muslim and we will both be receiving degrees by the end of the school year. She is 23 by the way. Her father is not a rational man. He doesn't even believe in dinosaurs or outer space. About 2yrs ago he shot and killed one of the other sister's husband. It was declared self defense but the dude was shot in the back and he was the only witness. He has stated to her and siblings on more than one occasion that he would "put a bullet between their eyeballs" if they tried to leave. After he shot sister's husband he sent her to live in Jordan with his family. When my girlfriend was finally able to speak with her sister she asked what happened. The sister said that dad had to tried to drown her when they got back to Jordan. He said he saw a figure in the water that basically looked like the grim reaper and so he didn't finish drowning her.

I'm saying all this to bring the point home. Talking with him will not resolve the matter. Simply put, he will never accept our relationship because a) I'm not Muslim and b) I wasn't born in the Middle East. This man has no problem lying to police or other authority figures. He routinely makes fraudulent insurance claims and things of that nature.

At the end of this year we will be moving into place of our own. My question is what steps can I take or what actions should I avoid to insure that our location is not revealed to him?

Thanks!

lets be real

get the #%& out of this relationship, you can only get hurt

its not because you had sex that the this girl is the one ... you need to think with your head (above your shoulders) in this case

and, lets say, you "love" her ... than, get her and just get out ... the problem is that the man is so crazy, that he probably is going to kill someone from your family if he did kill the other guy you just said

but lets be real, are you a troll? why am I answering you ... it doesnt make sense for you to ask for directions in this, is this for real?

I really cant believe this is real ... sorry man .. I barely know why I just wasted my time answering ... sorry but thats the truth ... this is too much hollywood for me

Wow.... relationships can be tough to begin with, but then you have the added worry of having to look over your shoulder the entire time and worry if you might be killed?

What happens in a couple years from now if you and she break up, she's po'd at you and she runs home and tells her father what a horrible person you are?
It can happen because it happens all the time. What then?

It's not a situation I'd want to be in.

Good luck to you in whatever you decided to do.

get the hell out of there.....

I f she loves you...she will leave her crazy family and move to the other side of the country....

If she wont.....dump her.

your not only marrying her...but her family...going to be a long haul..better be worth it.

I would strongly suggest evaluating just now important this relationship is to you as it sounds like you will quite literally be risking your life for the opportunity to engage in it.

If you conclude that the danger is worth it I would honestly suggest eloping and moving somewhere far, far, FAR away from the father-in-law and his gun-happy mindset.

Love is a beautiful and wonderful thing that can make mountains move and overcome almost any obstacle. Unfortunately gun wielding lunatics don't customarily defer to it.

I have no Idea why you would post this on ATS . However I will offer advice that you will not accept. Your 23, girls will come and go. Being DEAD ............ well that's a long term commitment.

reply to post by Faiol


While I do have my problems with religions...I can assure you this is by no means a joke and everything I have said here is 100% true. Come on you can't make this s&@^ up!

Really though, just dumping her just isn't an option. I'm not a child, this isn't my first rodeo.

Actually I take that back it is an option, just not one I have been willing to seriously entertain. I have struggled with this for awhile which is why I decided to seek advice here. I honestly don't know where else I could find such a wide range of opinions, advice, and experience with my topic.

Your points are well taken. I'm young. Is it all worth it, in the long term.

This just seems like an anti-semitic attempt to hate on Islam. I doubt that any of it is true. Can you provide any kind of proof? Maybe a police report or news article of the incident in question (murder)?

--airspoon

End the relationship. You may be killed.

When I was of dating age there were young men I feared my father would "talk to or have them run out of town if I dated them.

Naturally I was drawn to those outlaw types. It is a very strong draw to seek what is dangerous. It is erotic actually.

Dad found me sitting on the school steps at a street dance, took me home and I never saw that young man again. I heard he moved to Florida.

If you marry the young lady you think you love it could very well be the biggest mistake you could ever make.

The eastern families do not play silly games. They play for keeps and are very concerned with family honor.

reply to post by airspoon


While I respect your opinion... it would be kind of dumb for me to identify her or her family when her father wants to kill us don't you think?

I'm not hiding ANYTHING, I HATE ALL RELIGION. The only reason I mentioned her religion is to help people better understand the situation we are in and the mindset of her family.

[edit on 19-8-2010 by Infinityobserver]

For all those questioning my motives for the thread: Ask yourself where would you go to get information on such a topic, then kindly post that as a response.

I know it's not good to use "why would I" type arguments but seriously though...what have I got to gain from making this stuff up. I'm not trying to prove any point or provide evidence of anything. I'm simply asking what would you do, if you were in the this situation.

Ask yourself this .Do i love this girl? If you hesitate for one second get out now before kids are involved.If you really love her then just deal with it and move somewhere safe ,Once you give him some grandkids he probably wont deprive them of a father. .Whats the worst that can happen ,he finds and kills you , is she worth dying for?

I have to admit, at this point (with the issue of Islam so touchy at ATS and in general) I have to question the motivation of pretty much every thread that pops up about it, whether pro- or anti-Islam.

But, assuming this is legit and you genuinely fear your fiance's family, my first question would be, "what does she think you should do?"

After all, she knows the situation better than anyone here possibly could, and probably better than you do.

My second suggestion depends on a few factors. I would recommend that the two of you contact someone in the Islamic community who you know to be unsympathetic to the atrocities that some Muslims commit in the name of "honor".

Who you would contact depends on things like where you are (which I'm not asking by the way, just pointing out) and whether your fiance is a practicing Muslim or not.

Organizations that exist to protect women's safety and rights might also be able to help you figure out the options, or put you in touch with people who can.

reply to post by biowonder


Specifically addressing the issue of how to get as far away from the Dad as possible - is the OP in a position to immigrate to another country?

International borders might work as a buffer zone.

reply to post by americandingbat


She has reached the same conclusion I have, he will never accept it. The only way we could happily be together is without his knowledge. That is what she believes.

In the beginning I thought she was just being overly dramatic but as I learned more about him I realized that she wasn't.

reply to post by Infinityobserver


Infinity, my advice would be for you to try to find employment or reasonable opportunity for same, as far away from your girl's family as you can afford to get, even if you have to go into debt in order to do so.

Then, change your names, legally

and agree between yourselves that you will not reveal any of this to anyone in the future, no matter how trusted the person may be

Don't postpone this. Begin putting things into place now and do it as swiftly as you can

However, be prepared now and in the future, for your girl to become homesick and for her to suffer enormous guilt about cutting herself off from her family

At the moment, your common enemy and fears are bonding you close together. But you will fight and argue. Be prepared for her to become depressed and to say that no matter the risk, she simply has to get in touch with her mother or her sister, whomever, just to let them know she's alive and well - just to hear their voice, etc.

She was raised in her family's beliefs. The bond she has with her family began when she was an infant and it's indelible. At times of crisis and on certain days ( anniversaries such as birthdays, holy days, etc. ) she will revert to the loyalty and love she felt as a child for her family. This is normal. Nothing can or will ever change it. You must learn to accept it, just as deep down, even beyond your consciousness, your first loves were your parents, your siblings. It's always there, until death

You're chosing a dangerous, difficult and heart-rending path via your relationship with this woman

It's not impossible to maintain a solid relationship with her through many years, but it will be difficult, more difficult than other paths you might have chosen

Here's some encouragement, Ok ? I became extremely close to and involved with a Middle Eastern family, years ago. There were six children. The family was Maronite Christian Lebanese who'd emigrated to the West.

The parents naturally spoke in their own language as a rule. Their children spoke English, naturally, like their Western peers. There was a language gap between the parents and their children. Then the cultural gap emerged. The parents had no wish to assimilate into Western culture and mixed exclusively with other Maronite Christians

All the migrant parents were insistent their children must marry within their parents' culture. The parents had had an arranged marriage. That was considered normal by them. Accordingly, they arranged their children's marriages when their children were toddlers. If their children refused to go along with the marriage, it would have meant enormous lack of face for the parents and a fall within their community

The children had other ideas however and when teenagers, began dating people outside the Maronite community

One night, three of the older children arrived at my place. They were terrified and angry. The eldest son had been stabbed in the head by his father who'd attacked his children with a knife in his frustration about the fact they were disobeying his orders and were not behaving as he demanded they do. But .. despite stabbing them and attempting to injure/kill them, he loved his children and believed he was doing the right thing for them, and so on

I went with the children (ranging between 18 and 22) to the police and explained what had happened. The police in turn approached the father and advised him that his children could press charges against him. This calmed the father down temporarily

The three children leased a house a few miles from their parents and remaining siblings. The parents kept up the pressure: tears, begging, threats, warnings, pretend heart attacks, sudden visits that erupted to more violence

The son eventually gave into his father and married a Lebanese girl. The marriage was violent and ended in divorce after producing four children

The eldest girl obeyed her father and ended it with her 'usuitable' boyfriend. She returned home to her father's house. She never married and fell into ill health

But the other girl defied her father and married the non-Lebanese boy of her choice. They moved to the outer suburbs and had several children. She refused to surrender to the threats, promises, emotional ploys etc. of her parents and relatives. She and her family were excluded from social invitations. If offered, she anyway declined to attend. Occasionally, her siblings would visit her secretly. She has been cut out of her parents' will (considerable money involved). But ... her marriage has been a success and her parents, in very old age, have mellowed considerably

The difference between the happy-ending tale above and your own situation is that those detailed above are not Muslims and the parents ---although prepared to resort to violence -- did not adhere to 'honour killings'

We know that some Muslims will kill rather than see a child or sister, cousin, etc. escape the culture. We read about it every day and you've seen it in practice within your girl's own family

Therefore, you are staring death in the face and so is she. Right now. Tomorrow. Next week. Next month.. It could strike at any time

The threat won't go away if she has your child. In fact, it might escalate the dangers you and she face

No police force in the world can safeguard your welfare all the time

Your best chance is, as I've said, to get far away and change your identity. Even that won't safeguard you, because money talks and in order to change your name and still live a normal life, you'll be required to officially change it. Which means you'll leave a trail. And for money, people will access that trail and supply it to your girl's family

As I've said also, all your efforts to 'disappear' will be for nothing if your girl decides to phone her mother to wish her happy birthday or simply to speak to her after learning her mother is ill. That's a standard ploy, by the way ... to put out the news that the absconder's parent or favourite sibling, whomever -- is critically ill / dying

Lot for you to think about. If you continue the relationship, the danger will be part of your life, every hour. You'll always be looking over your shoulder. If/when you have children, it will get worse.

It's a very rare person from a Middle Eastern family, who is capable of walking away and never ... ever ... looking back. You might as well accept that

By the same token, life is full of risk and you can die crossing the road, or from eating out, or from being electrocuted by a faulty kettle

All the best : )

Also, in this day and age of the internet, it is very hard to keep personal information off the web. There are so many websites that you can find information on almost anyone...free or for a fee.

reply to post by Hefficide


Yes that is a possibility! I honestly never thought about it in that manner. I've been more concerned with keeping our location a secret from him and not too much on where that location might be. An international border could make it more difficult for him to find or get access to us.