The Overpopulation Myth, The Underpopulation Crisis

Originally posted by ipsedixit
reply to post by 19872012

 

Interesting stat. And nature is so insistent about the importance of this matter that it makes sure most people never stop trying, even when they don't want kids.

whats even weirder, is it seems like gals get pregnant easily when they DONT want to. how cruel nature is.

reply to post by ipsedixit


I dont think having more people would help our species in survival, there is already lots of people all over the Earth. More people could be detrimenal to our survival, because of increased resources needed and ecological footprint. Humanity could be compared to a disease - slower procreating germs have more time to spread the infection than faster procreating germs that kill its host sooner.
In our society dependent on science and technology, it is not the quantity of people that is important to species, it is the quality - having 7 billion people does not mean having 7 billion scientists. In reality, it most of them are "useless eaters" from our species survival perspective.

Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by ipsedixit

 

I dont think having more people would help our species in survival, there is already lots of people all over the Earth. More people could be detrimenal to our survival, because of increased resources needed and ecological footprint. Humanity could be compared to a disease - slower procreating germs have more time to spread the infection than faster procreating germs that kill its host sooner.
In our society dependent on science and technology, it is not the quantity of people that is important to species, it is the quality - having 7 billion people does not mean having 7 billion scientists. In reality, it most of them are "useless eaters" from our species survival perspective.

Will you volunteer for the gas chamber then?

reply to post by 19872012

Will you volunteer for the gas chamber then?

For the gas chamber? Of course not, what a horrible idea.

For birth control or sterilization? Yes, I would.

Originally posted by oniongrass
reply to post by googolplex

 

To answer your points:

(1) People are starving generally in countries with governments that steal aid rather than distributing it, and in part because of charities that don't get their job done either. People look at pictures of starving or bloated babies, give to charities, and the money never reaches the recipients. If that aid went where it was intended, the bellies would have decent food in them.

(2) What if we have a disaster? Well then maybe billions would die. But it hasn't happened yet. Do you predict it is coming soon?

(3) If this world is such a lousy place why are you still here? I mean it as a serious question. I'm not suggesting you off yourself, but that you extend the chance to other souls as well.

You haven't answered anything, you just misdirected the points I was making.
The UN cut off food supplies to Africa, there's plenty of food to go around so why not feed these people, instead of giving them HIV Aids.
In 1974 Kissinger wanted mass kill off, of people in other countries, Bush and then President Ford agreed.
There is no one starving in Cuba.

There has been getting close to half billion die, if things don't change it will be billions, and what was the big deal that just passed or did you miss that one, the fears of the H1N1.

I don't know where you live but it must be a differnt Planet than Earth, because things are getting worse the oil leaks and lies, all the plastic floating aroud in the oceans, Irans going to blow up the world same for N. Korea, I dare you to walk down my street in the middle of the night, whats up with the border of US and Mexico, or don't you know.

I know in No. (3) you were just trying to be smart or cute, but the choice of being here is not mine, and as to my being here so far has been in favorof souls so far, as to there is more here from my being as to not being here. I have saved more than I have killed either by acciident or on purpose.

[edit on 19-8-2010 by googolplex]

reply to post by googolplex

I don't think your response is logical.

If the UN cut off food aid to Africa, and someone gives to a charity that shows starving babies in Africa, what is the sticking point so that food is not delivered as the donor intended? The UN? The charity? The government in Africa? I don't think the UN is stopping it.

Perhaps the UN put in criminal governments there. Or Kissinger. Should we reduce population now because of that? Should we reduce their population? Someone else's population?

As you say people have good life expectancy in Cuba. Why can't more places be like that? You don't need to get rid of the people, just provide a more sustainable political environment.

Is your neighborhood unsafe because of the population density, or maybe there are a few bad apples spoiling it for everyone else. You're right, I haven't walked down your street and you haven't walked down mine.

I wasn't trying to be cute, but I did ask a question that got a strong reaction from you. Are we voluntarily here or not? Kids complaining to their parents often say "I didn't ask to be born" but some spiritual traditions say that we did ask to be born. I tend to the view that life is better than the alternative.

This Planet is large enough for all the peoples.

The Elitist, the Governments and the Militants need to be done away with their greed and destruction is killing this Planet.

Everything taught has been trickery to get the peoples in line and the peoples fell for it hook, line and sinker.

The peoples need to turn the table to take their Planet back and they need to heal her and start over if need be by the basics food, shelter, clothing for all. Teaching is all wrong and needs to be revamped.

If there is shortage of food it is only because the governments have taken all they can possibly take away from the farmers. The Governments have or are attempting to modify the food with things that shouldn't be used.

I wonder does the President eat canned veggies or are his all organic and fresh..... chem free.

It is up to we the peoples to stand together and make our change for the good in a peaceful manner, stop doing their dirty work.

Thank you for this thread I agree with you in the OP.





[edit on 19-8-2010 by observe50]

Originally posted by XxiTzYoMasterxX

Deaths this year-38,273,820

Births this year-87,597,100

Most of those deaths were caused by diseases...probably about 30 million of the 38 million deaths per year.

The numbers say it all.

No, they don't.

Originally posted by Aeons
A very large porportion of the population is middleaged and older. Meaning that in the next couple of decades there is going to be a lot of people dying.

Meaning your statistics about death to birth rate are less than logical. This should have been clear to you.

www.indexmundi.com...

Definition: This entry gives the average annual number of deaths during a year per 1,000 population at midyear; also known as crude death rate. The death rate, while only a rough indicator of the mortality situation in a country, accurately indicates the current mortality impact on population growth. This indicator is significantly affected by age distribution, and most countries will eventually show a rise in the overall death rate, in spite of continued decline in mortality at all ages, as declining fertility results in an aging population.

reply to post by Aeons

A very large porportion of the population is middleaged and older. Meaning that in the next couple of decades there is going to be a lot of people dying.

Thats not true.

2.bp.blogspot.com...

I know that what I posted is inconvenient to you - but the excerpt above about increasing death rate isn't MINE. Its the UNs.

reply to post by oniongrass

The whole world is full of contradictions, our Governments are so good is mostly lies.
Part of Kissingers plan was mass starvation, in these third world countries.

The fact is there are more bad apples than good, or at this time more potentian bad than potential good.

Everyone is born into the physical, everyone in the physical dies.
What I was saying, it is not my choice, it was not my choice as to when I was born, it is not my choce as to when or how I will die.
I don't have a problem with either, I am just a participant, an observer.
I don't know if one is better than the other, because I don't have the perspective to say.

I was not saying to kill off a buch of people, but it;s something that needs to be addressed.
Like if you take a penny, and double the amount everyday, in no time you will have a million dollars, it's the same with people, oil and gas use, it just can't go on for ever, this is why we have so many burst bubbles now, like the housing bubble, things can't go up for ever, at some point a correction occurrs.

reply to post by Aeons


World is after population explosion - there is disproportionaly big number of young people compared to older people - this is a statistical fact. I am not sure where did you get that a very large proportion of population is middle-aged and older, but it is surely wrong. The opposite is true.

Originally posted by InfaRedMan
Why do we need more people? To what end? Just for the sake of it?

IRM

You got me there. To some extent, throughout history, people were seen as a resource for work or war. You needed a lot of people to fight in your battles, and to farm your fields. That's not the case anymore, thanks to our technological progress.

There really is no reason to push the population limit to the absolute maximum, or even anywhere near it, if these additional people are just going to sit around and watch TV all day. Nobody necessarily benefits just because there are more people around.

Although people can't really be viewed as a commodity, a supply and demand function seems to apply here. The more people there are, the less value they have as a whole or individually. In earlier ages, we valued poets and writers, because they were scarce. Now everybody on the Internet is a poet or writer, and we couldn't care less.

Originally posted by Maslo

Will you volunteer for the gas chamber then?

For the gas chamber? Of course not, what a horrible idea.

For birth control or sterilization? Yes, I would.

I have no children, and will not reproduce. There's simply no need for me to do that. The universe dies with me.

No bubbles needed to burst the government just needed ways to steal your money.

If you took the money they stole from you and divided it between every naturalized American citizen instead of giving it to themselves...the crooks they are, the people would have paid off their mortages bought another property probably, purchased new car/s and everything else.... the economy would have been hopping and you would be happy because you had your own money in your pocket and were able to do with it what you wanted....hey vacations.

Tell me what did you personally get out of all your money when they gave it away.

They lined their own pockets.

People are slowing waking to what they are doing and they know it so they are taking you for all they can get.



[edit on 19-8-2010 by observe50]

Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by 19872012

 

Will you volunteer for the gas chamber then?

For the gas chamber? Of course not, what a horrible idea.

For birth control or sterilization? Yes, I would.

Oh, you'd volunteer you and many others to only GENETIC death.

Jolly Good of You.

reply to post by Aeons

Oh, you'd volunteer you and many others to only GENETIC death. Jolly Good of You.

I am a proponent of Chinese-like population control. It would help hundreds of millions of people around the world, IMHO.

Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by Aeons

 

Oh, you'd volunteer you and many others to only GENETIC death. Jolly Good of You.

I am a proponent of Chinese-like population control. It would help hundreds of millions of people around the world, IMHO.

Really? Even with the problems it caused? Even showing that the Western model clearly shows that it brings a population into a less than replacement value in only a few generations? You prefer brutal totalitarianism?

For me the best way to put this is:

Have Faith in your Creators they will know when enough is enough don't listen to your Governments yopu see what they do.

reply to post by Maslo

I think that your attitude to population size is quite representative of the way that many people feel today.

I'm not saying that we should ban contraception and ramp up the population to 18 billion as quickly as we can, although I believe that one day we will get there, if we are lucky.

A lot of other things will have to happen as well of course.

This species is different from every other species that we have record of that has existed on earth. This species is going to do it's darnedest to outlive the planet. I don't think that will happen in the form of a hand picked team of scientists getting into their "lifeboat" with a catalog of fertilized eggs and seeds as cargo to head into space.

I think when we go, we are going to take everyone and everything practicable with us.

One of the problems with our thinking at this stage of human development is that the population largely regards power and initiative as the preserve of the few.

That paradigm is especially espoused by the few.

The advent of the internet and ever increasing dispersal of information and knowledge, if not interfered with, will change that paradigm.

The notion of thinking small and manageable, to the point where size is determined by what the elites can manage, is eventually going to give way. There will eventually come a time when the virtues, the inherent natural virtues of thinking big numbers will begin to be appreciated.

This is a real shift in perspective that elite groups have only allowed to operate in times of dire emergency.

There is no question that we will have to leave this planet. There is no question that we will have to begin to prepare thousands of years ahead of time. Given the uncertainty of life in the universe, in my opinion, we should begin to become familiar with the ideas and ways of thinking that we will need, now.

I feel certain that we will need large numbers of people to take that step and large numbers of people to prepare for it.

Within decades China and India may give a graphic demonstration of what huge numbers of educated people are capable of. I hope they do. It might make the point a lot clearer to intelligent people who have gotten used to a "small is beautiful, small is efficient, small is manageable, growth should be limited" paradigm.