where else shall mosques not be built?

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Which of the many Christian churches throughout the Muslim world do you wish to go attend services at?

Proto- let me address this from my experience. Before traveling to Saudi Arabia as a consultant for the United States military, I was warned not to bring any items such as a bible, a cross or even a religious medal, because I would be arrested. Once in Saudi Arabia, I was told that there were no churches that I could attend. When I went on to Cairo, the most liberal of the Middle Eastern Islamic nations, the closest I could get to a Church was a Coptic church. I have traveled extensively in the Islamic world, and Christianity is anathema to most of those nations.

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


yup, you make a good point regarding the billions in weapons we are sending them.
proof the only thing the u.s. really cares about is their oil.

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
reply to post by rubbertramp

 

I think they should build as many mosques in the US as there are churches in Saudi Arabia. Oh wait a minute, churches aren't allowed in Saudi Arabia.

I like that your way of keeping Americas social issues in check is following Saudi Arabias example.

Way to keep that american freedom blazing!

reply to post by LibertyLover

That's the important thing here. Constitutionally, the Cordoba Center has every right to build its center with a mosque in it anywhere they choose.

Yes, it has the right. That has never been in dispute. However, it shows a complete lack of sensitivity for those who died in 9/11, to have amulti-story mosque towering over that hallowed ground, where people's minuscule remains are still inhabiting that ground, which radical muslims viciously attacked.
Furthermore, let me state for the record, since I will not even bother to reply directly to people who continue to name-call, that:
1) I have provided in previous posts valid links which provide DIRECT investigative PROOF that Saudi Arabia is, ans has, provided billions of dollars in funding, to fund RADICAL mosques, as fifth column in the US. This is very similar to what the Nazis did in the 1930's, when they developed groups of 5th columnists in the US, to try to steer the US into the Nazi cause.
2.) As I have stated in several posts, on both this thread, and others, my comment about Saudi Arabia not allowing churches, was to show the irony of the VERY MOSQUES that Saudi Arabia is funding, want a privilege not granted in their own country to Christians.
3.)I believe that the majority of Americans understand, and justifiably protest the mosque, NOT BECAUSE they wish to deny religious freedom to Muslims, but BECAUSE they wish to respect the dead who gave up their lives at that hallowed site.
4.)Finally, I equate bring attention to the crazies who go to military funerals and wave signs to the bereaved families that state such things as: "God is glad that your son/daughter died". They may have the RIGHT to protest, but it sure is disgusting. In addition, it is DISGUSTING that the few misguided on this thread have no retort other than to call names.

I won't post further on this thread, because I won't give them the time of day. Such behavior on their part is extremely disgusting. Fortunately, I distinguish between disgusting behavior, and resorting to name calling.

Unlike them, I will not call them names, nor will I disrespect their death, or their loved-ones deaths, when they occur. Further, should they encounter a situation where others disrespect their dead, I hope that such disrespecters come to their senses and cease such behavior.

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Which of the many Christian churches throughout the Muslim world do you wish to go attend services at?

Proto- let me address this from my experience. Before traveling to Saudi Arabia as a consultant for the United States military, I was warned not to bring any items such as a bible, a cross or even a religious medal, because I would be arrested. Once in Saudi Arabia, I was told that there were no churches that I could attend. When I went on to Cairo, the most liberal of the Middle Eastern Islamic nations, the closest I could get to a Church was a Coptic church. I have traveled extensively in the Islamic world, and Christianity is anathema to most of those nations.

Yes, when in Rome it's wise to do as the Romans do. Sadly I am one of the few people who realize the whole world is Rome now!

But embracing the same systems we abhore in others is not an answer in my opinion.

Striving for the lowest possible common denominator is easy, but it is not very progressive or quality oriented.

When seeking to dominate through a moral high ground, which is the basis for the justification of U.S. Military intervention in much of the world (The real reason you were in Saudi Arabia) it's actually important to be on the moral high ground.

This is all theatre and manipulation and most of it is about exploiting superstitions and fears, which is what so many nations try to do through exploiting religion and making religion and state the same.

The Divine Right of Kings.

Do you really want the U.S. Government to exercise that same kind of dictatorial process, and open the door to a precedent that might make you a compulsory member of the laity of just one very specific state sponsored religion, where politics and religion become one in the same?

The easiest way to have that happen is to start persecuting people along religious grounds and eliminating religions that the majority doesn’t want.

Once that religion and those people are gone, then what will be the religion, or denomination the majority doesn’t want?

Keep in mind with each elimination that Majority will grow larger, and politically more powerful.

They will become more dictatorial as a result.

I don’t consider this an issue, because no one of any denomination is going to drag me off to any church, or force me to abide by any rule.

They will die or I will die trying.

Seems to me a lot of people are just going looking for trouble, even to the extent that they make the trouble.

Considering it’s all being orchestrated by the media, and the center of the controversy is an Imam with long standing ties to the U.S. State Department and FBI you would think more people could perceive that they are being manipulated on a grand scale.

Trust me when I say the ultimate goal of that manipulation is nothing like the ultimate goal of the people emotionally reacting to this issue.

Give peace a chance, and the truth is that it’s a community outreach center and a mosque, with the community outreach center being an inter faith, non-denominational one.

So why talk at your ‘enemies’ when you can talk with them and become friends?

Maybe that’s what is so frightening to people, having to abandon a one way dialogue for a two way one.

This isn’t Saudi Arabia, but it will end up as something far worse if people don’t relax and take a chill pill and start thinking with their minds instead of their hearts.

Thanks my friend.

Gee, was there an idea here based on a personal conviction that was missed. Was there more here to be gleaned than merely a hypothetical to arouse more conflict? I must have missed the point of this post I guess. Move along, keep moving.

Originally posted by gotredeemed
Gee, was there an idea here based on a personal conviction that was missed. Was there more here to be gleaned than merely a hypothetical to arouse more conflict? I must have missed the point of this post I guess. Move along, keep moving.

my basic point in the op was simply to ask, is the ground zero mosque unique as far as the challenge to it's building.
i like personal opinion, i think we learn a lot about each other this way.
if you have no opinion to share that is fine, most likely better that way.
the rest of the thread is out of my control, yet interesting none the less.

To answer your question. Where ever common sense and funding
will allow it. In America common sense must be a huge factor or you will
have great multitudes of disatisfied people on hand. It's wrong to build a mosque there in that respect. Beware TPTB. they incite to anger us all into making a mistake.

Proto
Never seen that one before. Very nice to see the boys again.



[edit on 16-8-2010 by randyvs]

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


After following this thread all the way through I am brought to the point where I have to inquire as to which other countries you hate that you would like to see the US be more like?

reply to post by randyvs


That one was from Earl's Court in 1975, but if you really want a treat, watch this one of the Immigrant Song from 1972 in Australia.

Very topical too!

This is an incredible performance:

Build Mosques wherever you like. But if you want it to be accepted, and don't want to make it a target, use some sort of sense. This is not some backwaters church or the Alamo that it's building in the immediate vicinity. This a site where some 2700 people were murdered en masse by 19 men who professed the belief system that the builders of this community center follow. The arguement that said 19 hijackers were not true Muslims, but extremists, is irrelevant in the backs of the minds of many who had to stand and watch this mass murder. Their wounds are still fresh in their minds, we are only approaching the 9th anniversary of the horror.

Maybe in 15 years from now, it will not be such a major issue. But people still remember vividly, and the reconstruction of the WTC isn't finished. They are still finding pieces of people. If this imam wants to risk possible backlash, then he should be prepared to deal with whatever comes.

I don’t really mind where a Mosque is built providing it isn’t built anywhere within Britain, the U.S or Australia. Apart from that, I really welcome them as a global, cultral contribution. Also I have no objection to people worshipping Islam (espically if it meant they had to get on a plane 5 times, a day!)

So yeah; there should be as many Mosques as there are in Saudia Arabia.

P.S But they do build Mosque's; does anyone else here think that since a Mosque looks like a Mosquito, they should also be constructed to resemble them? I‘m not a Musuem, so I'm no expert, but do think it would make them look, a lot more fun!!