You have the Right to be Racist, Bigoted, and Hateful

Originally posted by Gun Totin Gerbil
If I say that there is a higher likelyhood density in the southern states of racism , and I can at least go and find out a poll that affirms that . Then , after your failed attempt at a strawman argument , you are then going to put your considered argument of ''There's nothing wrong with the Southern USA' in as your considered argument to the contrary , Sherlock ?

But what Southern states ?
Whereabouts in these Southern states ?

LOL.
I'm not saying that there's nothing wrong the Southern USA - as I've said, I've never been there.

All I'm saying is that it's ridiculous to get prejudiced about a certain people, or geographical region.

How can you tar 100+ million people that reside in the Southern USA with the same brush ?

Guess what ? Some people are good, some people are bad, some people are indifferent...

It's the same throughout the world.

[edit on 15-8-2010 by Sherlock Holmes]

reply to post by muzzleflash



Hmm

Well Muzzleflash context is the key. I have seen several of your posts and you have always struck me as a straight up person and not some sort of sociopath or nut case. I get where you are coming from.

Well here is a very simple experiment everyone can do.

Get out a Few DVDs of films made in the 70s and watch at them closely. Look at how women and men interacted. For the Brits why not try the latest Ricky Gervais film. Try to ignore the ridiculous hairstyles but look at the relationship between men and women. Or watch a few episodes of Life on Mars. Avoid the US version (pure rubbish). Did people really behave like that to each other because of gender or skin colour?


Now cut to the present day and ask your self “Overall which is better socially”?

How did things change? Protest is one thing but it was changing laws that cinched it.

Now look at six months of ATS posts what do you see. A small percentage of highly bigoted posts against various “races”, some even with to whitewash the Nazis. Bigotry and hatred have not gone away. There are those who wish to take us backwards to the “good old days” when bigotry and hatred was OK. These people whine about political correctness as the infringement of their human rights to be obnoxious.

I think that the legal recourse is necessary to hold certain elements in check. I am no fan of political correctness but it seems to be the new manners. I like to be polite so I go along with the trappings. If we took away certain laws we would go backwards to the 70s rapidly.

I believe it is impossible to legislate against hatred, ignorance or any of the isms.

I am a black man and I dislike most bigots and racists. I have particular dislike for the black nationalists like the new Black Panther idiots. I have been attacked by racists and have never lost a fight to date. I actually enjoyed beating the hell out of them. However just because I am a trained fighter does not mean that I want to spend the rest of my days brawling but I have a democratic and god given right to go about my business in a polite and innocuous manner. However I do not want to live in a society where people are assaulted because of their gender/skin/colouration or lack of it/ or sexual orientation.

I also support your notion of thick skins I believe that without it we would just be a bag of adrenaline 24/7, which is not a good thing.

Yes I am a Hypocrite. As are all humans.
Yes I am Intolerant. As are all.
Yes I hate. As do all.
Yes I am a bigot. As are all.

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes

Originally posted by Gun Totin Gerbil
If I say that there is a higher likelyhood density in the southern states of racism , and I can at least go and find out a poll that affirms that . Then , after your failed attempt at a strawman argument , you are then going to put your considered argument of ''There's nothing wrong with the Southern USA' in as your considered argument to the contrary , Sherlock ?

But what Southern states ?
Whereabouts in these Southern states ?

LOL.
I'm not saying that there's nothing wrong the Southern USA - as I've said, I've never been there.

All I'm saying is that it's ridiculous to get prejudiced about a certain people, or geographical region.

How can you tar 100+ million people that reside in the Southern USA with the same brush ?

Guess what ? Some people are good, some people are bad, some people are indifferent...

It's the same throughout the world.

[edit on 15-8-2010 by Sherlock Holmes]

Not many use the very same strawman again after being discovered the first time around . Why don't you give Watson a call, I'm sure Sir Arthur wouldn't mind .

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
How far do you take this? You say people want laws to prevent others from expressing their racist and/or hateful views. Does this also include employers being able to turn down employees based upon their race, religion or creed? After all that is the employers expression of their beliefs.

If someone is irrationally hateful of you, why would you want them to be forced to give you a job? Would you really want to work for someone who hates you? Why would you want to contribute to the success of their business? Shouldn't they fail for being jerks?

I don't know if this is the place for a discussion about "Equal Opportunity Employment" laws, but I never have understood that.

Originally posted by eMachine

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
How far do you take this? You say people want laws to prevent others from expressing their racist and/or hateful views. Does this also include employers being able to turn down employees based upon their race, religion or creed? After all that is the employers expression of their beliefs.

If someone is irrationally hateful of you, why would you want them to be forced to give you a job? Would you really want to work for someone who hates you? Why would you want to contribute to the success of their business? Shouldn't they fail for being jerks?

I don't know if this is the place for a discussion about "Equal Opportunity Employment" laws, but I never have understood that.

I agree;
Hating on employees or customers because of their race would be fatal to a business;
we should all boycott any businesses that acts that way

Originally posted by Gun Totin GerbilNot many use the very same strawman again after being discovered the first time around . Why don't you give Watson a call, I'm sure Sir Arthur wouldn't mind .

LOL.
No strawman arguments have been used by me.

reply to post by muzzleflash


Where did anybody say it was illegal to be a racist or a bigot? I have seen people call out others on this forum for being bigots or racists, but as for arguing that they have no right? Have not come across that.

If you want to be proud and announce that your a bigot or a racist by all means, but do not expect everybody else to hop onboard.

reply to post by eMachine


If someone pig-headedly refused to employ blacks ( for example ) in his private business, then I think he should be allowed to.

It's his firm: it's his money that pays the employees.


However, I think there should be strict laws in regards to racial and gender discrimination within the US government and civil service.


If a geezer wants to employ a certain ''type'' of person, then commercial karma will always come back and bite him on the bum.

Game Over.

[edit on 15-8-2010 by Sherlock Holmes]

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes

Originally posted by Gun Totin Gerbil
If I say that there is a higher likelyhood density in the southern states of racism , and I can at least go and find out a poll that affirms that . Then , after your failed attempt at a strawman argument , you are then going to put your considered argument of ''There's nothing wrong with the Southern USA' in as your considered argument to the contrary , Sherlock ?

DEFINITION LIKELYHOOD : the probability of a given sample being randomly drawn regarded as a function of the parameters of the population. The likelihood ratio is the ratio of this to the maximized likelihood.

DEFINITION DENSITY : The number of individuals, such as inhabitants or housing units, per unit of area.

Added Note For 'Sherlock' . The PROBABILTY of a GIVEN SAMPLE . This denotes a mathematical chance that certain numbers within that group MAY conform to the requirement amoungst the DENSITY . It does not denote ALL.

Now then ...
Here we go with the Strawman :

How can you tar 100+ million people that reside in the Southern USA with the same brush ?

Guess what ? Some people are good, some people are bad, some people are indifferent...

It's the same throughout the world.

[edit on 15-8-2010 by Sherlock Holmes]



[edit on 15-8-2010 by Gun Totin Gerbil]

Originally posted by Gun Totin Gerbil
They got generations of stupidity ingrained in them. You'd need to take each one off to special schooling somewhere for 20 years to weed out that kind of jackarserry.

Let me tell you something about those jackasses down South, because I'm one of them.

We're not talking about black or white, we're not talking about DNC or GOP, we're not talking about liberal or conservative or Catholic or Protestant or anything else.

What we're talking about, in your quintessential Southern dumbass, is somebody who has been raised by fearful people living in a fearful environment, always waiting for "the gubbmint" to come knockin' on the door, or "the gubbmint" to reinstate their welfare payments or SSI payments or unemployment benefits, thinking they have no opportunities and no future because the South is crisscrossed with these incentive-draining government programs and permeated with a kind of hopelessness that could only be conjured up in the crazed fekking brain of a San Francisco Liberal Legislator who has NO idea of what low-down poverty really is, but who wants to "hep it out" by throwing money at it.

You know what happens when you throw money at poor people? You think they run out and sign up for college with the money? You think they have a big Thanksgiving Dinner and invite all their poverty-stricken neighbors to come share the bounty?

Shsh I know that's what SOME people think... Some people known as LIBERALS in a fekking drug-induced dreamworld.

See, now, the folks who are living on the government dole for generations upon generations, these are the GRASS ROOTS of the Southern dumbasses. This is where they come from. These are the dumbasses, who are black AND white, side-by-side, no discrimination because of color, or property or anything else.

They are people who have no INCENTIVE, because the "gubbmint" just barely keeps them rolling.

And that's how they roll. Poor, stupid, uneducated, inbred hillbillies, podunks, waiting for that government check and pitching a fit when that check don't arrive at the end of the month.

When they pitch a fit, they call it RACISM, or they call it REVERSE RACISM or whatever they call it in their pathetic, pea-brained reality:

Oh, lawdy, the gubbmint done took away mah paycheck! How iz I gonna pay this month's cable TV bill? It's RACISM! It's th' RICH HATIN' ON TH' POOR, iz wut it iz.

Yeah... And that AINT about color, friend.

When I write in de down-Sowf manner, an' I takes the liberteez widda verbage and inflection, I'm speaking AS ONE OF THEM. Because I am. I'm talkin goddamned deep Sowfeest Texas, where I'm from, right down there with the Cajuns and de goddam coonasses and all that, shy.

I'm talkin' about the low-down, entitlement-minded stupidity that our government has not only financed but has NURTURED over the decades with one social program after another "ta hep them po people"... Shsh

Now, that's how I look on them, as an educated and successful and motivated individual who came out of the heart of the South. Am I discriminating on them?

Oh, Hell Yeah

Because, see, they think they are entitled to a free ride. That is the impression we have made upon them for the last 70 years.

Guess what, people?

Free ride is gonna come to a pretty bumpy end, and pretty damned soon.

— Doc Velocity

reply to post by muzzleflash


I am a simple man with simple rules...

If someone has bigoted views thats their right

Its also my right to have views that oppose their views...

On a personal level...

If someone verbally attacks my wife for a legitimate reason... i will suck it up.

Someone attacks her for being black, overweight, wearing glasses, having a limp or another non relevant personal attack....

They will be picking their teeth up from the floor...


Errr...


I better add for the record...

Although my wife IS black she AINT Over weight, wearing glasses or walking with a limp.... not that it would matter if she was... honest... er...

Just in case she takes a peak at this thread


[edit on 15-8-2010 by Muckster]

Originally posted by Muckster
Although my wife IS black she AINT Over weight, wearing glasses or walking with a limp.... not that it would matter if she was... honest... er...

I figured you might wanna backpedal and recant some of that nonsense, son. Anytime you start putting words like "wife" and "overweight" together in the same sentence, your ass is walking on THIN ICE.




— Doc Velocity

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
Really cool, muzzleflash. It always bothers me a lot when I'm intolerant of the intolerant. There's just no way to correlate that, is there? I'll have to read this again tomorrow when I'm sober.

There is a fine line between fighting what's wrong, and becomming the very thing you are fighting.

I heard this piece the other day for the first time, and now whenever I hear the word 'rights', I always think of it:

[George Carlin's final joke] Personally, when it comes to rights, I think one of two things is true: I think either we have unlimited rights, or we have no rights at all. Personally, I lean toward unlimited rights - I feel, for instance, I have the right to do anything I please. But, if I do something you don't like, I think you have the right to kill me. So where you gonna find a fairer #ing deal than that? So the next time some asshole says to you, "I have a right to my opinion," you say, "Oh yeah? Well, I have a right to my opinion, and my opinion is that you have no right to your opinion." Then shoot the # and walk away!

Good thread!

Originally posted by Doc Velocity
permeated with a kind of hopelessness that could only be conjured up in the crazed fekking brain of a San Francisco Liberal Legislator who has NO idea of what low-down poverty really is, but who wants to "hep it out" by throwing money at it.

If I may comment, you have to change the "a" to "all" for 100% correctness in your statement and adding a "s" to Legislator.

You're effing right about them not knowing what poverty is, hell I don't either but I won't show off that I do just to get votes. Yet they do and since all the City south and east of Twin Peaks is your "we do things to make us feel good regardless if it does a damn thing" Libs, they keep getting elected.

To explain the madness of some of these politicians, I have to tell you a personal story about one of these SF Stupervisors. Cross my heart and hope to die this is the Gods honest truth:

Back in the summer 2004, I was volunteering as a SFPD PAL Cadet at Northern Station in the City's Filmore District. Now each City Stupervisor has to live in the district that they represent and that district's is Ross Mirkarimi, who LOVES his tanning salons. He's one of those "pity the poor here's a grand" types And just thinks how awful it is for all the poor homeless crack fiends out there and how they need more "programs" to sink money into. Well, one day he was getting out of his car that was parked out in front of his house on the side of a hill. Now being the guy he is, he left his door open while he went inside while his girlfriend (unbelievably hot, I know...unbelievable) waited for him in the car.

Next thing that happens is some neighborhood crack fiend jumped into the car jammed it to neutral and steered the car down the hill where the car hit several parked cars and then a light pole. The fiend turned out fine and got away leaving the GF in the car (who was completely fine BTW). So instead of calling 911, since he doesn't want attention brought to himself he calls the station and the cop that answers tells him to come to the station and sent out a unit to pick them up. Now at this time, we didn't know the whole situation so we wait until he gets to the station with the GF.
He gets to the station in all his Oompa-loompa gloriousness, the man was ORANGE I tell you, completely in tears on the verge of a complete break down! His GF, who was actually in the car at the time was cooler, calmer and more collected than cops I know didn't give a damn really about what happened and was embarrassed by the fact she was with this guy, who is a big dude, bawling like a new born babe neither over the fact that his GF when through that bit of hell nor his car. He was crying because he felt so sorry that society made that crack fiend so much like he is that he had to do that!!! He blamed society for the crack fiend wrecking HIS car!!!
Mind you everyone got a hearty laugh at the crying Oompa-loompa when he left and one of the cops even scored the GF's number. Not from the report BTW.


And yes, this story is on topic with the OP because it goes to show how much as a citizen and employee of the City and County of San Francisco I am a hateful bigot full of discrimination and intolerance towards the skid-mark stains that are the City's politics and politicians.

reply to post by Doc Velocity

I come from generations upon generations of "Southern dumbasses" in Pennsylvania.

Good post. Mostly true.

reply to post by muzzleflash


And that will help the human race......how, exactly?

It is divisive and hateful, so how can the human race survive when it does not pull together?

No wonder we have wars all the time, no wonder we are killing our planet and murdering our children - we can't even stick together.

reply to post by Doc Velocity




LOL... i know what you mean Doc... i regretted hitting the reply button almost immediately

OH, you are sooo right, OP...S&F for you!

Reading your post caused my mind to race back three weeks ago when this ATS thread appeared:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

It was titled. ATS and mental illness and was intended as a serious suggestion that all ATS members be "normal" before being allowed to post here. Can you conceve how absolutely barren of activity this place would be??? Ha

Well, I must say your post countered the foolishness of banning people from ATS because they are a "little different". Thank God for the "little different" people like us!

Long live the "little different" people!!!

............

Originally posted by catwhoknows
And that will help the human race......how, exactly?

It is divisive and hateful, so how can the human race survive when it does not pull together?

No wonder we have wars all the time, no wonder we are killing our planet and murdering our children - we can't even stick together.

First, how is it divisive to have something in common? I think the OP is basically saying that we all need to acknowledge our faults in this matter, rather than pretending to be "holier than thou" while practicing the same hate and intolerance.

Second, how is it more helpful to the human race for some people to use a government to threaten others with penalties for thinking or saying something that may be unpopular?

The OP is not advocating violence. Racism, bigotry, and hate are not actions, they are ideas and feelings. Verbalizing an idea or feeling with language does not violate anyone. If you think it does, wouldn't it also be a violation for someone to spew hate at another for being intolerant? Either way I look at it, the OP still seems to be correct in his evaluation.

Edited to Add:

We do indeed need to stick together... to protect the right to share how we think and feel with other people. Whether we like what others say, or whether they like what we say, doesn't matter at all. To take the right away from some people for some things would strip it from everyone. You have rights because you respect the rights of others. If you don't respect the rights of others, you will have none yourself.

[edit on 8/15/2010 by eMachine]