Over 1 Billion Muslims and Growing

asdasd12345: please back up why you think this,

Asala,

OK this statement is very politically incorrect and for that, if I do offend someone I am sorry, I mearly state a view point I have read and heard alot. I as a Christian do not hate Muslims, but I do think they are misguided.

Well the catholic church through the centuries and now days alot of biblical scholars as well, think that the Muslims as a whole are the locusts that are mentioned in Revelations. If that is the case and the Islamic faith is allowed to continue spreading far and wide as it presently is, the end of days wont be too far behind. They will try to bring Israel and its allies down but God wont let Israel fall until it is time, and even then it will fall for a short time only and not from without but from within.

- Was

Why is it, when someone twists the Bible for evil (white supremists, snake handlers, etc) it just a few bad apples, but when some Muslims do it to the Koran, all of Islam is bad? People say, well the Koran preaches this and that. What about the Bible? People go nuts when you they of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but they don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees. Any holy book can be twisted by a group of people, even the bible. Islam is just as peaceful as Christianity, but unforunately you have people on both sides spreading lies about each other.

Originally posted by asdasd12345
its pointless, and it does more harm than good.

why though??
Faith has helped people through some of the most terrible times in there life

ok firstly i find that its really hard to believe that anyone can take religion seriously. to me there is no doubt in my mind there is no god. i believe human beings have a hard time understanding certain concepts, one of them being infinity. it boggles our minds to think that the energy in the universe was never created, and can never be destroyed. its a rule from basic physics.

having said that, i believe that human beings have created religion to help them understand things they dont understand. ages ago there were gods of rain, gods of sun, to predict the weather and things like that, but then eventually we understood it had nothing to do with any "god" it had to do with the tides, atmospheric pressure, ect. religion helps people deal with death, things of that nature. but as humans generally become more knowledgable about the world, science has disproved religion time and time again. now religion is used as a way to justify ones preferences in life, based on what, in my opinion, are foundations that dont make sense to begin with.

also if you look throughout history, there has been more mass murders in the name of religion than for any other reason. religion seems to be used as an excuse to slaughter people who dont believe in the same thing as you do. you never hear of one religion saving the lives of millions of another, its more like they are massacring each other. if we could agree that the basic principles of science disproves there is any god at all i think we could be a lot better off.

does anyone have opinions on what ive wrote? i understand its probably not the best written essay on why i think religion is crap, but its a work in progress.

Originally posted by Wassabi

Well the catholic church through the centuries and now days alot of biblical scholars as well, think that the Muslims as a whole are the locusts that are mentioned in Revelations. If that is the case and the Islamic faith is allowed to continue spreading far and wide as it presently is, the end of days wont be too far behind. They will try to bring Israel and its allies down but God wont let Israel fall until it is time, and even then it will fall for a short time only and not from without but from within.

- Was

Aother interesting thing in the Book of Revelation is the 4 horsemen. They are riding a white, red, black and pale(green) horse. These are the 4 colors in the National flags of Irag, Syria, Jordan, Kuwait and a couple more. The link is they are muslim nations. Should we hate muslims, no, but their God is not the same as the christian God. The korans agenda is to take over the world.

Originally posted by dlbrandt
The korans agenda is to take over the world.

I'm assuming that you are saying this because you have read it. Or are you just assuming as well?

As far as I know, there are up to 40 000 or 50 000 muslims in Finland.
Probably even more.

But having Aruba and Gibraltar on the list is a nice touch.

Though it is probably hard to find accurate information since finnish
officials don't really care who is into what religion and when if any.

There are so many different religions and minute variants of them in the world that it would be as impossible as categorizing people by their skin color.

(Though I've heard that in US people actually had to report their skin color in census. But I'm ready to accept that's an urban legend . )

There is a hugh link between the man that war against Islam, Irak, Arabs and ... Hitler : the grand father of George Bush, Prescott was The Banker of Hitler. P. Bush was also the biggest weapon seller and made work in his firms in east Europ people from concentration camps (Jews). Yes, he traded with nazis and helped them a lot!!!!

This is not a hoax, this was said on french TV. You have elected a man that have a nazi tradition. Nazis have become in America Roman conservators.
Think and verify it!!

This may be why he want Jew to go to Palestinia and do nothing against nazi web sites.

Bush control also the oil of Saoudit Arabia, 85% of what they own, and Saoudit A. gave money to Pakistan that have the atomic bomb that might go on Israel.
...

hmmm lets apply certain logic, noticed in these discussions, on christians.

Timothy McVeigh blew up a building, killed lots of civilians. He is white catholic and believes in God, he said it himself. So Christian God is violent, McVeigh read the bible, he killed people, he said it is ok so it must be ok. Polish people are white catholics, lets carpet bomb Poland before they kill everybody. Look how violent christians are, we should bomb Poland. What? Poland has nothing to do with it?? Of course they do, they are christians and christians are ok with killings of inocent civilians and I claim that because McVeigh killed civilians and he was christian.

Notice the imense HUGE FLAW in this thought pattern????

Muslim is not a nation, it is religion. Look at the list in the first post, look at the number of muslims of different nationalities, states, continents. Half of those countries are in war or disagrement ( major verbal hatred ) amongst eachother, just like non-muslim nations. They are not a Borg-like collective trained to do one single thing, kill people.

If the goal of Islam were to kill all non-muslims, you would all be dead by now. How come all those Muslims living in America, Germany, Bosnia are not on a killing spree? They read Koran every day, they pray, if Koran is so violent, how come they are peaceful??
I am Muslim, I read the Koran, yet I am not thinking about killing anyone, I am pharmacist, I help save lives. So far I haven't found a single verse in Koran which allows killing of civilians, but I have found many that condemn it.
Where is the part of the Bible that justifies erradication of entire population of two continents?? I don't rememeber that being a part of message of Jesus. Yet, the Church justified killings of Native Americans with the Bible and people followed.


I think the problem lies somewhere else, in humans. Regardless of their religion, nation, race, all humans are capable of comiting evil. Serial killers go to church every sunday, those who killed Native Americans were "good christians", those Hindus who kill muslims in India believe in their God, atheists commit horible crimes out of pure hatred. Notice the pattern??

People have to open their mind and accept the fact that there are those who are DIFFERENT, and different doesnt neccesarily mean wrong. It is just that, different. Accept it and move on. Don't generalise. Condemn individuals, not entire continents. We have to control hatred, we can't eliminate it, but we can control it and not act upon it.

paperclip good post i was waiting for a muslim to respond to this thread Islam =

what about these quotes

(Koran 8:12) "Remember Thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the believers, I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them."

(Koran 2:216) "Warfare is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that you hate a thing which is good for you and it may happen that you love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, you knew not."

(Koran 69:30-37) "(It will be said) Take him and fetter him and expose him to hell fire. And then insert him in a chain whereof the length is seventy cubits. Lo! he used not to believe in God the tremendous, and urged not on the feeding of the wretched. Therefore hath he no lover hear this day nor any food save filth which none but sinners eat."

Originally posted by asdasd12345
what about these quotes

They must be dividing the spoils they took: there must be a damsel or two for each man, Spoils of dyed cloth as Sisera's spoil, an ornate shawl or two for me in the spoil. (Judges 5:30-31 NAB)

The Lord announces victory, and throngs of women shout the happy news. Enemy kings and their armies flee, while the women of Israel divide the plunder. Though they lived among the sheepfolds, now they are covered with silver and gold, as a dove is covered by its wings. The Almighty scattered the enemy kings like a blowing snowstorm on Mount Zalmon. (Psalms 68:11-15 NLT)

But God will smash the heads of his enemies, crushing the skulls of those who love their guilty ways. The Lord says, "I will bring my enemies down from Bashan; I will bring them up from the depths of the sea. You, my people, will wash your feet in their blood, and even your dogs will get their share!" (Psalms 68:21-23 NLT)

The total of the temple slaves and the descendents of the slaves of Solomon was three hundred and ninety-two. (Nehemiah 7:60 NAB)

Then they turned and marched toward Bashan, but King Og of Bashan and all his people attacked them at Edrei. The LORD said to Moses, "Do not be afraid of him, for I have given you victory over Og and his entire army, giving you all his land. You will do the same to him as you did to King Sihon of the Amorites, who ruled in Heshbon." And Israel was victorious and killed King Og, his sons, and his subjects; not a single survivor remained. Then Israel occupied their land. (Numbers 21:33-35 NLT)

You (God) smote the slaves together with their princes, and the princes together with their servants. Their wives you handed over to plunder, and their daughters to captivity; and all the spoils you divided among your favored sons, who burned with zeal for you, and in their abhorrence of the defilement of their kinswoman, called on you for help. (Judith 9:3-4 NAB)

There are tons of more. The point being, anyone can grab passages out of context, and twist them to their meaning.

@ asdasd12345
Why did you quote these verses? What are they supposed to prove?

Koran 8:12 speaks about angels, non-corporeal beings, to which "strike above neck" means attack the mind, poison the thoughts. It clearly does not refer to humans and what they are allowed or not alowed to do. It demonstrates the power of God, not men.

2:216
I am not sure what you are trying to say with quoting this verse. A more correct translation would be:
"Fighting may be imposed on you, even though you dislike it. But you may dislike something which is good for you, and you may like something which is bad for you. GOD knows while you do not know. "
It just says that humans are sometimes put in a situation when they HAVE to fight, SELF DEFENCE, even if they do not like it. There is nothing more to this verse, it is very simple and very clear.

69: 30-37
This whole sura is about the afterlife, it describes heaven and hell. The part you quoted describes Hell, the AFTERLIFE, not this life. It describes the punishment, GOD's punishment.
A slightly different translation of those verses:

69:25] As for him who is given his record in his left hand, he will say, "Oh, I wish I never received my record.
[69:26] "I wish I never knew my account.
[69:27] "I wish my death was eternal.
[69:28] "My money cannot help me.
[69:29] "All my power is gone."
[69:30] Take him and shackle him.
[69:31] Burn him in Hell.
[69:32] In a chain that is seventy arms long, tie him up.
[69:33] For he did not believe in GOD, Most Great.
[69:34] Nor did he advocate the feeding of the poor
[69:35] Consequently, he has no friend here.
[69:36] Nor any food, except the bitter variety.
[69:37] Food for the sinners.

Originally posted by infinite
paperclip good post

i was waiting for a muslim to respond to this thread

Islam =

Thanks!

I think we have gone way of the topic, this isn't the religion thread. but its easy to blame it on religion, man cannot admit they are to blame for all the problems in the world

To those who would say that because two Americans were beheaded, muslims in general are misguided or Islam is a religion promoting violence, I would say...

Can you tell me how many Iraqis died in the current war? Were they all terrorists? Or were they just casualties of war? If so, what's the exchange rate for an Iraqi life vs. an American life? Let's see, maybe 100 Iraqis equal one American?

And Israel... The Americans have supported every single aggression by the state of Israel upon his neighbors or upon the Palestinians. And the more the Palestinians try to defend themselves, the more they are called terrorists and bombed into submission. Tell me... the networks are very good when it comes to giving us a number of Israeli killed in the Intifada. But do you know how many Palestinians were killed? Usually, the ratio is about 2 Palestinians for 1 Israeli.

But those Palestinians don't count, because they're all Muslims and terrorists, right? And so are these Iraqis?

So as far as killing goes, who is the barbarian here? And don't a good number of Muslims have the right to be pissed at the West for meddling in the affairs of the Middle East for a century and perpetuating injustices in the region?

But of course, we don't want to know about that. We just want those Muslims to submit so we can get gas for our SUVs. We want them to yield so we can get back to the real important things in life - watching Survivor while eating a good McDonald's combo.

Originally posted by Otts
And Israel... The Americans have supported every single aggression by the state of Israel upon his neighbors or upon the Palestinians. And the more the Palestinians try to defend themselves, the more they are called terrorists and bombed into submission. Tell me... the networks are very good when it comes to giving us a number of Israeli killed in the Intifada. But do you know how many Palestinians were killed? Usually, the ratio is about 2 Palestinians for 1 Israeli.
you should not talk about something you dont know, i live in this place, they are natural born killers, they are getting trained to blow up innocent civillians since the day they are born, at least israel doesnt intentionally target children busses like these filthy scum


But those Palestinians don't count, because they're all Muslims and terrorists, right?
if anyone of the palestinians tries to negociate with israel they get lynched by their "leaders" as traitors, i think israel should kill arafat, so far beheading these terror groups main leaders helped alot and there are fewer attacks

So as far as killing goes, who is the barbarian here?
muslims are really stuck in time, they dont know what CHANGE is, islam really didnt convert people, they where forced, coutries next to arab ones, are converted.



But of course, we don't want to know about that. We just want those Muslims to submit so we can get gas for our SUVs. We want them to yield so we can get back to the real important things in life - watching Survivor while eating a good McDonald's combo.
why dont you leave your computer then and come here helping them? oh wait, i know why, because you are just another infidel for them that should be murdered

everything is good just the politics is evil.i think the politics is the aggregation of selfish desire

feindflug,

The argument "You don't know what you're talking about because you don't live here" has been used ad nauseam to discredit someone else's opinion. Well, a lot of people on this board post opinions stemming from what they read in the papers or on the net and still make valid points, so I'm glad to be among the numbers of those who don't know what they're talking about.

I may not live in the Middle East, but I've read enough about history to know that there is always a cause to behavior patterns in populations. If the Palestinians are "natural born killers" as you say - which I find a very crudely generalized statement - there is obviously a reason why it happened. It's too easy to find fault strictly with the enemy, and to dehumanize him by saying that he's evil, period. That way there is no need for soul-searching, we Westerners are white and pure as snow.

I aim not to vilify Western civilization the way some people today are vilifying the entire Islamic world community. I'm just trying to bring a more balanced view in which each side has committed acts which have led to the current situation. In other words... it takes two to tango. Unfortunately, we are once again suffering from either amnesia or an incredible lack of self-examination which makes us convinced that the West - and Israel - are absolutely blameless in what's happening.

Well... as long as no effort is made to try to understand the root cause of terrorism, it will not disappear.

But... from what I hear you say about them being "natural-born killers", maybe you think it would be best to exterminate them to the last?