Biblical Deaths: How Many Did God Kill? How Many Did Satan Kill?

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


God makes the rules. That doesn't mean God has to follow the rules, though.

Just making a comment based upon the premise set forth by the OP. The god of the Bible kills more than even the evil Satan kills.

Hey, if you're God, you can kill anybody and everybody. It's cool. But, ut oh, some other entity wants to do the same? Yikes! After all, God is God. You aren't sanctioned to kill somebody by God? To hell with you!!

Vilification is a cool tool. It affords folks to do the same sort of things as their "enemies", but still get away with doing worse thingS.

Originally posted by TheLieWeLive
Drummer,
seems like you've managed to ruffle a few feathers. Think about the reaction I get when I tell people "God" would have to be a space alien.

You think "God" is 96% monkey too?

I figured I would ruffle feathers. But I'm only using the same source text which provides the very faith many rely on. You could tell people god would have to be a space alien but would it be from a religious text people took very seriously?

Here are my two cents: the Bible says that God is a jealous God, therefore he wants to enjoy the monopoly on killing. He doesn't want any competition. You have small fries like Hitler and Pol Pot coming along and trying to imitate Him. Remember, only God has the Killing Franchise (lol)!

Focus on physical death and Satan appears to be the nice guy,... perfect just as he wants it. Problem is the physical death isn't the issue it is the spiritual death, eternal separation from God. Who started the precipitated the run on that one, Satan. Not only for humankind but the countless angels that followed him into their fallen state. Don't blame it on God for creating the opportunity either, free will is of critical importance to God.

God is evil because he kills, heard it before and will no doubt hear it again. Thou shall not murder is the commandment, murder includes an intent of malice or unjustifiable killing. Thankfully God sees and understands all so His decisions, while they may appear unjust to us are always perfectly just. God must weigh the needs of the many over the needs of the few. If evil will not repent it must be destroyed or it will threaten all. If anything the Bible gives numerous examples of how patient God was, even to the point of sending His prophets in alone to dangerous cities to warn.

If I came across someone unjustifiably harming one of my children and threatening their life, I would have no problem using deadly force on the attacker if necessary. Would I be "good" in my response if it was justified and necessary, yes, would it be murder, no. Problem is as a human I could never be 100% sure if it was justified and necessary,.. thankfully God doesn't have this problem He knows when it is justified and necessary. Why is the exact same response by God deemed evil? Because he killed innocents? Those who carpet bombed Dresden or dropped Fat Man on Nagasaki, were they evil and murderers because innocents died? Death at the hands of another, even death of an innocent, does not always equate with evil, sorry isn't that simple.







[edit on 13-8-2010 by slane69]

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

It's quite clear that "Satan" in the Bible is really God. No deity would command respect under pain of eternal damnation .. surely only an evil deity would do such a thing?

You are mistaken, the threat is simply eternal separation from God. If that is what you demonstrate as wanting in this life it simply carries over to the next life. If you feel that is something you would like, then perhaps it is your heaven after all.

Problem is that eternal separation also equates to separation from everything that is good, because all that is good comes from God. Make a list of all the good things in your life: a stable reality, love, companionship with others, physical, emotional, spiritual, intellectual satisfaction or happiness, the five senses, to name a few,... all gone. Nothing to balance the evil that will remain. Hmmmm,..... maybe that is eternal damnation but it is simply a consequence of God removing himself from your existence as per your wishes. Don't believe it, that's fine, you have the free will to chose your reality in this life and the next.

reply to post by slane69


So when God ordered Joshua to exterminate the people of Jericho because he wanted to give the Canaanite lands to the Israelites he was not being evil? So it's OK for Israel to exterminate the Palestinians when God orders it! Hey Palestinians, you are only giving up physical existence, think of your spiritual existence instead!

Originally posted by Ameneter
reply to post by slane69

 

So when God ordered Joshua to exterminate the people of Jericho because he wanted to give the Canaanite lands to the Israelites he was not being evil? So it's OK for Israel to exterminate the Palestinians when God orders it! Hey Palestinians, you are only giving up physical existence, think of your spiritual existence instead!

Rather than debate the ideas presented, throw up the most dramatic examples you can find with lots of exclamation points. Sometimes I wonder why I bother. Anyhow,....

Archeology gives some hints about what the Canaanites did. On one of the High Places, archeologists found several stone pillars and great numbers of jars containing the remains of newborn babies. When a new house was built, a child would be sacrificed and its body built into the wall to bring good luck to the rest of the family. The firstborn were often sacrificed to Molech, a giant hollow bronze image in which a fire was built. Parents would place their children in its red hot hands and the babies would roll down into the fire. The sacrifice was invalid if the mother showed grief. She was supposed to dance and sing. The Israelites later copied this practice in a valley near Jerusalem called Gehenna. Hundreds of jars containing infant bones have been found there.

Lets talk about Sodom another city God wiped off the face of the earth. The book of Jasher is an ancient book mentioned in the Bible. It gives details about the evil in Sodom. For example, strangers and travelers who came into the city would be robbed, stripped, and held captive within the city. They would wander the streets slowly starving to death to the great amusement of the citizenry. Another account relates that visitors to Sodom were offered a bed according to the Middle Eastern laws of hospitality, but it was a bed of torture. People too short were stretched. People too long had their legs cut off. If a traveler had no money, he would be offered bricks of gold and silver with his name on them! Only nobody would sell him bread and water, even for all that gold and silver. So the traveler slowly died of starvation. The Sodomites gathered around the corpse and took back the gold and silver. The people in Sodom were not only evil, they were proud of being evil.

The Palestinian issue is complicated, especially in that we are living through it and truth is harder to see when you are in the midst of the confusion. Has God commanded Israel to destroy the Palestinians, I doubt it. I do not see in the Palestinians the extreme evil that God has historically punished civilizations for. Is Israel in the wrong?, likely, as a people they have made many mistakes before as described in the Bible. Is Israel as we know it today even largely made of up Israelites or are they pretenders? Excellent questions and I won't pretend to have answers. I believe Israel is unjustly persecuting the Palestinians and that ultimately God will punish them for this. On the other hand the Palestinians haven't taken lessons from Ghandi either. There is lots of blame to go around.

[edit on 14-8-2010 by slane69]

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by IandEye
the essenes and othe jewish gnostics believed that satan is god and god is beyond all our senses. to personify god with mercy and kindness is ego-projection and narcissim. but making fun of that is even worse.

Sorry, I wasn't talking about how jewish gnostics interpreted things. I referenced the loving, merciful god because it is commonly referred to as such. Making fun of it is appropriate.

yeah i was excited, sorry . i meant making fun of religion as a whole and the love of god is inexcusable.

reply to post by slane69


Hi Slane, this sounds to me like blaming the victims. Find some cultural aberration after the fact to justify their slaughter. Lot and his family lived in Sodom. How come they were not victims of the Sodomites. I doubt the Sodomites were evil. Those who write the history justify their crimes. Sodom and the other cities of the plain gave their allegiance to other Gods. In the war for supremacy they were on the losing side and therefore "evil".

Originally posted by Ameneter
reply to post by slane69

 

Hi Slane, this sounds to me like blaming the victims. Find some cultural aberration after the fact to justify their slaughter. Lot and his family lived in Sodom. How come they were not victims of the Sodomites. I doubt the Sodomites were evil. Those who write the history justify their crimes. Sodom and the other cities of the plain gave their allegiance to other Gods. In the war for supremacy they were on the losing side and therefore "evil".

Ameneter, I agree there are unknowns and the victors do write the history books. Sodom has not been found by archaeologists and as such I cede to your point as using the bible alone would not suffice in this instance.

Please do not mistake my posts, my intent is not to lay blame or justify slaughter. What I am attempting to do is introduce doubt,.... killing is not always evil and without having absolute knowledge of all that is at play in a given circumstance one cannot judge what is evil and what is good. Do not simply look at an event in the Bible and judge it as evil. We know from WWI and WWII that what may appear evil on the surface, or for that matter good on the surface, is not necessarily truth.

Peace

I think people are assuming that death in itself is bad or an evil act and it is not. Now when man decides to play god, such as murder then he committees an evil act. Even the devil, the top angle was kicked out of heaven when he tried to play God, so I guess the answer is don't try to change the natural process of event, such as murder. Remember only man can do evil acts, and the devil drives man to do these acts, or in general terms, take the natural process of events into his own hands.

This could all boil down to what type of energy you become after you die since energy is never created or destroyed, just changes form. This might seem trivial right now, but could mean everything once you move on….think about it…


[edit on 14-8-2010 by Xtrozero]

So what?

What if God did kill all those people. Those people were His to kill if he wanted to, so God did nothing wrong. Satan killed 10 people that he did not create or give life to so he was in error.

God could wipe out this entire universe right now and that's no big deal. It's HIS universe.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


this is one of the most entertaining threads ever ... I mean, come on

when people expose that their God is actually a psychopath if he exists, people still find ways to defend him

thats why I say

YOU CAN INTERPRET WHATEVER YOU WANT FROM THESE RELIGION BOOKS

Originally posted by zroth
Not sure why people are so ignorant to this fact or quick to ignore that Satan is the puppetmaster.

thats the best way it can or will be said god bless the ignorant

one more thing about this thread i will not try to sway anyone but if there is a devil there is a god take it however you feel i'm not here to judge noone just get it together we in the last days and thats truth

Originally posted by Xtrozero
I think people are assuming that death in itself is bad or an evil act and it is not.

I don't think the OP is talking about God letting someone die of old age, but rather personally attempting to end someones life because he is displeased with their choices.

In other words...murder.

Now when man decides to play god, such as murder then he committees an evil act.

If playing God is committing murder and it is an evil act, what does that make God?

- Lee

You people just don't get it.

God has every right to kill or murder his own creation for any reason. There is nothing wrong with that. I don't need to justify or defend God.. his actions were right and just in his own eye and that is all that matters.

Man killing Gods creation = Evil.

God killing his own creation = Good.

It's not like God is killing someone elses creation.

God cannot be evil or wrong for killing his own creation. That would be like you being evil or wrong for squashing the cake you baked. That's just silly.

Originally posted by Faiol
this just proves the stupidity of the followers of these organized religion

Wow, I would rather be a "stupid religion follower" then an ignorant ill informed jackass like yourself anyday, normally I wouldn't stoop to your level, but what an idiotic thing to say.. You my friend, are the problem with ATS.

Edit that, problem with the WORLD

[edit on 14-8-2010 by mattias]

I'm glad some of you here get it. I cannot most of you are such fools, to think that the creator of all that exists shouldn't be allowed to manipulate it is obsured. You people and your "liberal rights" have you trying to defy God himself. I feel very sorry for most of you.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by pepsi78
Yes I do, don't you look around how things are built ?
Everything provides something, even planets, it's all for it to work, arranged.
Evolution just flunked, not so valid so what theory is up ?
Don't try to say it's valid because laws and particles don't evolve. It's shift shape to the preset, predefined to the core.

Sorry, I don't buy the god hypothesis. Evolution didn't flunk, it's undeniable fact. And it doesn't state that laws and particles evolve. Study up on the scientific theory you argue against.

Well if particles and laws don't change then we are only becoming what were suppose to become.