Biblical Deaths: How Many Did God Kill? How Many Did Satan Kill?

Originally posted by nlouise
This is the point at which physical perfection was modified:

Gen. 3
16Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

That seems to only refer to women specifically. What about men?

James 5:14 (King James Version)

14Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

This is preferred over seeking medical attention from physicians?

Originally posted by nlouise
God is able to cause disease (as a result of sin), as well:

Exodus 15:26 (King James Version)
26And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that healeth thee.

Ahhh, the old "do what I say and I won't make you sick". Clearly though, the most devout christians also fall prey to many of the most serious diseases and the lord doesn't heal them. This is yet another biblical claim regarding disease that is at odds with observation and modern knowledge.

Originally posted by nlouise
What is impossible with God? (Jesus was/is God, by the way) Where did God fail to identify proper cause and treatment? Modern medicine only reveals what modern medicine can prove. Modern medicine didn’t cure me, God did. I know I am not the only one.

Modern medicine can prove the cause of many diseases and the biblical claims that certain diseases can be cured by exorcism or physical contact alone are highly dubious. Most foremost is the implication that demons would be the cause of the disease and exorcism would be the cure. The actions of an allegedly omniscient god should not include misdiagnosis and malpractice.

Originally posted by adjensen
However, as I stated above, TD isn't being penalized for rejecting God, he's simply receiving in the next life what he has requested in this life, existence apart from God.

This is also presumptive. Firstly because it relies on the assumption that there is a "next life" and also a god, of which there is no apparent evidence of either. Secondly because it presumes that should both of those variables prove true that I would then desire existence apart from this god.

Originally posted by Gorman91

You have to supply the proof.

Sir, I have supplied the proof to you to the point of redundancy. You employ a systematic denial of such proof and fail to back your points with anything beyond hypothetical, assumptive scenarios of possible guilt. I'm not going to go around and around with you on this point much longer.

Also, you claim to have Googled biblical contradictions, looked at a few and thought they were wrong, so you ignored all of it. Your posts tend to be personified by poor argumentative techniques.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by adjensen
However, as I stated above, TD isn't being penalized for rejecting God, he's simply receiving in the next life what he has requested in this life, existence apart from God.

This is also presumptive. Firstly because it relies on the assumption that there is a "next life" and also a god, of which there is no apparent evidence of either. Secondly because it presumes that should both of those variables prove true that I would then desire existence apart from this god.

True enough, but I fail to see the point of discussing any of this if the answer to anyone questioning your statements is a bland "you can't criticize me, because God doesn't exist." If you need to believe that he exist for your comments to be accountable, then your claim of justness or lack thereof in any part of that is irrelevant.

Or are you saying that God doesn't exist, but that if he does, he'd better overlook the fact that you don't believe he exists, because it's unjust to expect you to believe something that you don't? Do you see yourself as not accountable on any level? That's not a criticism, I'm just curious.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


Denying them right because they were wrong. Your first posted contradiction about counting Israel is a perfect example of it.

Allow me to explain something regarding logic.

Stating something does not make it true.

Stating someone is wrong does not make it true.

Stating someone is right does not make it true.

It is really quite simple. Your proof is not redundant. Your proof is caught in an infinite loop error and cannot be proven true.

We have now, thanks to previous posts, proven their definite guilt. We have not in any case proven their definite innocents. So now we have moved to no definite claim to a definite claim of guilt.

The single only way to deny their guilt is to say what it was is not stated. And to do so invalidates God's word being true, thus invalidating any relevance to its relevance.

You wither accept it all or deny it all. If you are going to argue literature, you cannot backtrack.

Pick a side or don't. Stop drawing straws.

Originally posted by WENEEDAREVOLUTION

Originally posted by nlouise

Originally posted by idonotcollectstamps
Sure is oftly Interpretation in here. 40 pages worth of interpretation. Does anyone find it odd that you would have to try and determine what was really meant in these books? Dude is Blues Clues out the ying yang. I guess this is why there are 10,000 different branches of three religious books.

Blues Clues out the ying yang?

Yes, 10,000 branches of three religious books, but 9,999 imposters. There is power in many of them, but there is only one that trumps them all. That one has the power of perfection and perfect love, which casts out all fear.

You obviously DON'T mean Christianity/Islam/Judaism then!!!!!!

What are you saying? Obviously, how so?

I am saying that books have power in them, even wiccan witch books have a small degree, but the Bible has the power of God written in those pages. Koran is about Allah (not the same God), and Talmud is esoteric witchcraft. The Bible trumps them all because they are words of the Most High the Creater of all things.

The previous poster threw out a number, and I summed it up.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

That seems to only refer to women specifically. What about men?

You’re always making me think OP. I think thats why I hang around on this thread. Here it is: The tree of life would have allowed mankind to live forever.

Genesis 3:22 (King James Version)
22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Genesis 3:24 (King James Version)
24So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

This is preferred over seeking medical attention from physicians?

If I break my arm I will go to the doctor and get a cast on it, sure. I suppose if I wanted to figure out how to do it right, I would do it myself. If I get cancer, the first place I am going is to God, rather then get poisoned by chemo and microwaved by radiation. I have faith that God can cure cancer, certainly.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by nlouise
God is able to cause disease (as a result of sin), as well:

Exodus 15:26 (King James Version)
26And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that healeth thee.

Ahhh, the old "do what I say and I won't make you sick". Clearly though, the most devout christians also fall prey to many of the most serious diseases and the lord doesn't heal them. This is yet another biblical claim regarding disease that is at odds with observation and modern knowledge.

That is not the point I was making. I can’t answer for other people because I don’t know how deep their faith is. Some Christians believe that healing was done away with after Apostle Paul died. Some have more faith in doctors.

Terminal illness is a scary thing that plays on the mind constantly. The time to be prepared spiritually would be before that happens, and not just afterward. –Sometimes really good Christian people are so busy praying for others that are ill that when it comes to them they stay silent and just hope.

I don’t know OP, good question. I can only speculate.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by nlouise
What is impossible with God? (Jesus was/is God, by the way) Where did God fail to identify proper cause and treatment? Modern medicine only reveals what modern medicine can prove. Modern medicine didn’t cure me, God did. I know I am not the only one.

Modern medicine can prove the cause of many diseases and the biblical claims that certain diseases can be cured by exorcism or physical contact alone are highly dubious. Most foremost is the implication that demons would be the cause of the disease and exorcism would be the cure. The actions of an allegedly omniscient god should not include misdiagnosis and malpractice.

I can see why you would say that (demons cause/exorcism cure) because of how many times illness was addressed that way. But the implications of the 'root' cause was sin. No one that Jesus cured was misdiagnosed.

If we can't see into the spiritual realm (but some can, it goes hand in hand with a spiritual gift of healing) than we have no business diagnosing people like that, and instead should see a doctor. People die from stuff like that. (kids dying because parents wouldn't take them to a hospital) When God is healing someone, there is no guesswork to it. If you have to guess, go see a doctor.

The condition of our hearts and relationship with God is key. When a person can hear God's voice, they know. If they can't, go see a doctor.

The elders of the church should be opperating within those gifts. Today, elders of the church just means your on a membership list, and you have keys to the building. Sad, but true.

In regards to the post, “Biblical Deaths: How Many Did God Kill? How Many Did Satan Kill?”
Joshua’s attack on Hai is cited. It says in (Josue 8:17), “And not one remained in the city of Hai and of Bethel, that did not pursue after Israel, leaving the towns open as they rushed out.” This may indicate that these peoples women also engaged in warfare; and perhaps the youth as well! The cities that Israel destroyed on the march into the promised land; were all pagan. They may have been decadent, even in regards to the children and animals. When destroying Jericho, it says in Josue; “And they killed all that were in it, man and woman, young and old. The oxen also and the sheep, and the asses, they slew with the edge of the sword.” (Josue 6:21) Why kill the animals, when you need them for your own? Clearly this implies what I have suggested, they were very evil!

All quotes from; The Holy Bible: Douay Rheims Version - Tan Books and Publishers, Inc.

Originally posted by adjensen
Or are you saying that God doesn't exist, but that if he does, he'd better overlook the fact that you don't believe he exists, because it's unjust to expect you to believe something that you don't? Do you see yourself as not accountable on any level? That's not a criticism, I'm just curious.

I would say that, if god exists, it's unjust for him to claim he is, then effectively avoid confirmatory detection by all humanly means possible and subsequently punish non-believers eternally for the crime of using logical reasoning.

Originally posted by Gorman91
Your proof is caught in an infinite loop error and cannot be proven true.

No, it's not "caught in an infinite loop error". The biblical god has indeed killed innocent people. David and Bathsheba's infant son for example is yet another innocent killed by god to punish other people.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by adjensen
Or are you saying that God doesn't exist, but that if he does, he'd better overlook the fact that you don't believe he exists, because it's unjust to expect you to believe something that you don't? Do you see yourself as not accountable on any level? That's not a criticism, I'm just curious.

I would say that, if god exists, it's unjust for him to claim he is, then effectively avoid confirmatory detection by all humanly means possible and subsequently punish non-believers eternally for the crime of using logical reasoning.

Just curious, did you read my post earlier: www.abovetopsecret.com... ? As I said there, God isn't hiding, you're just not looking for him, and that's not God's fault. There are millions of people who would say that they've seen proof that God exists, but the fact that it's not the sort of proof you'd personally accept doesn't make them wrong.

Remember, the Christian belief is that we are ALL unworthy of being with God, so the injustice in one person going to heaven and another person not is not the person who ISN'T going to heaven, but the person who is, whom God grants grace to, rather than exercise judgement upon.

As I said, it might seem unfair that you'd be denied this, but that is a human valuation, not God's. You've been placed into the same world as me, given the same information and opportunities to develop faith (essentially) and you've determined that your doubts are what will make your decision. Which is fine, but they are your doubts, and it's your decision, so faulting God is a pretty weak argument.

Satan is responsible for all.
Don't blame God if his followers can't get it right.

Look at it this way, something that plays a very significant role in the spiritual welfare of mankind is surely bound to be a target for Satan.
His plan is to deter Man away from God as much as he can.
There is doubt he has actually infiltrated the churches and mosques at some point in history for the purpose of influencing the spiritually weak.
This has resulted in the creation of the many religions and factions we have today.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


Direct quotes, you need to post them.

To claim what you do, you need to quote specifics. You can't just say something random and be right. Perhaps you don't understand how a discussion happens. It requires sources and exact quotes.

If you were born in Asia - you could be a Buddhist. Or a Muslim. Get over this Jewish legend stuff. God has nothing to do with "religion". In fact I am wrong. Buddhism is not a religion.

Believe nothing on the faith of traditions,
even though they have been held in honor
for many generations and in diverse places.
Do not believe a thing because many people speak of it.
Do not believe on the faith of the sages of the past.
Do not believe what you yourself have imagined,
persuading yourself that a God inspires you.
Believe nothing on the sole authority of your masters and priests.
After examination, believe what you yourself have tested
and found to be reasonable, and conform your conduct thereto.

Buddha

www.sapphyr.net...

One day "Mara, the Evil One," was travelling through the villages of India with his attendants. he saw a man doing walking meditation whose face
was lit up on wonder. The man had just discovered something on the
ground in front of him. Mara’s attendant asked what that was and Mara
replied, "A piece of truth."
"Doesn’t this bother you when someone finds a piece of truth, O Evil One?" his attendant asked. "No," Mara replied. "Right after this, they usually
make a belief out of it."

www.ashidakim.com...

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


Ok OP, I'm feeling left out here. Give me something to chew on.

(I accidently hit the X in My ATS flag. I have to type something here in order for this thread to show up again and have a link. Boy, I hate when they change things on here. lol)