Biblical Deaths: How Many Did God Kill? How Many Did Satan Kill?

This is a great case of Atheism, for me anyway, showing the massive imperfecions of a "perfect" God that so many are decieved into worshiping. Fear=Power, especially in the case of a minority religion (at the time) trying to gain followers to their beliefs. Good man yourself for doing the research

Originally posted by adjensen
I don't dispute the nature of hell (though I'd say that it's not unreasonable that we lack complete understanding,) I'm just not a fan of people using that as the fulcrum in their argument FOR God.

Why though? It's consistent with the "might makes right" theme that underlies the nature of the biblical god. Fear is a primary mechanism throughout the bible (despite the good, nice stuff that may be in there).

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


No it does not. If God kills two criminals with one punishment, justice is still done. Neither are innocent.

You still have not answered this issue. You do not know what type of people they are. You cannot claim to use the whole Bible in your responses if you conveniently ignore who God says he kills.

If you want to get super fundamentalist, all men are sinners. So how God punishes them really doesn't matter. We all deserve hell. And a quick look at human history proves how few should be given mercy.

So again. No man is innocent of sin nor crime. All men get what is coming to them for their continuous sin. If someone dies for another's sin but the punishment fits with the person's crime, then it is not murdering innocents.


You claim they are innocent. You have yet to say why. You claim they did not do David's crime. I tell you all humans are sinful and you have no way of knowing their hearts, so you must look at other parts of the bible. You claim I am making things up, but do not define your terms. I show you how I am not making things up and you conveniently pretend nothing was ever said.

You are currently stuck in circular logic. The only difference is, I don't care how long it goes for.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

No it does not. If God kills two criminals with one punishment, justice is still done. Neither are innocent.

You still have not answered this issue.

You haven't demonstrated that this assumption of yours is true.

...

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


Yes I have. I've used statements from similar situations. Such as the conversation between Abraham and God on Sodom and Gomorrah. And Genesis 20.

These things prove that God will not kill good people with the bad people. Sodom and Gomorrah are a perfect example. One punishment for them all. God takes out the good people and destroys the bad in a single punishment. Does not matter if it was from one persons crime or another. They are all bad people and so punished communally.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by adjensen
I don't dispute the nature of hell (though I'd say that it's not unreasonable that we lack complete understanding,) I'm just not a fan of people using that as the fulcrum in their argument FOR God.

Why though? It's consistent with the "might makes right" theme that underlies the nature of the biblical god. Fear is a primary mechanism throughout the bible (despite the good, nice stuff that may be in there).

Well, we're right back to where we started. You know my perspective, Christ's commandments of love, and that I work my way out from there. I don't take the whole of religious thought, cram it into a box and try to sort out what the truth might be from that.

Fear is a crappy motivator, which is why I don't follow that tract. There are some, true, whose character is such that fear is the only motivator, but that is not me, and if that's what brings them to God, whatever.

I look at some of the nuttier evangelicals, and I really do wonder what their lives are like. Mine is generally pretty upbeat, I'm happy to spend time in prayer or reflection, and I find joy in doing things for others. But these "doom and gloom" types, I think that they're less likely to experience that, and more's their loss, because even if I'm wrong about the whole thing, my faith has brought me joy and comfort in this life, even in some pretty dark times.

Originally posted by Gorman91

These things prove that God will not kill good people with the bad people.

No, it proves that god lied.

Sad, but true

Originally posted by adjensen
because even if I'm wrong about the whole thing, my faith has brought me joy and comfort in this life, even in some pretty dark times.

Well, that's hard to argue (even though I could ).

Whatever makes ya' happy, man!

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


You claiming he lied is dependent on those people being innocent of any sin. So unless the virgin Mary cloned herself 70,000 times, you have no way of being right.

Originally posted by Gorman91
You claiming he lied is dependent on those people being innocent of any sin. So unless the virgin Mary cloned herself 70,000 times, you have no way of being right.

No, it depends on them being innocent of a crime.

That's where you're going wrong.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


All men are sinful and criminals. And so your logic falls.

[edit on 26-8-2010 by Gorman91]

Originally posted by Gorman91
All men are sinful and criminals. And so your logic falls.

Sorry but there is a delineation between sin and crime which whatever logic you ave fails to address.

Also, just so you know, there is no such thing as "sin" and nobody is a criminal until a law is broken. But those are topics for a different day.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by nlouise
How many has Satan killed? Well first, he uses mankind to do it:

Don't be fooled. God uses mankind also.

The Crusades, 9/11, murdering abortion doctors, Eric Rudolph, etc. etc.

Killing for god is a popular pastime it seems

Correct, God can use mankind too.
The crusades were secret societies, which God is against.
The abortion doctor that was murdered was set up by CIA for other purposes.
Killing for God; I hope this explains it:

1 Timothy 4
1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


Indeed they are topics for a different day. But you are arguing in relation to the bible. Sin and crime are the same in there. You either accept it all or deny it all. You don't pick and choose. And again you switched gears to avoid the truth of your fail logic. You dropped the topic like its hot and went into secularism. But that's not the topic at hand. The topic at hand is the bible and its own world. So in doing so you have created a strawman fallacy, for you divided sin and crime in accordance to the modern secular world, which is not attached to the logic and world of the bible. It would be like suddenly discussing sharia law when you are talking about the ten commandments.

So excuse me while I call you out on it, but my BS meter is alarmingly high, because you just made yourself a confirmed troll.

No offense intended. You can change your ways. You can simply avoid talking about religion all together lest you be proven wrong in your beliefs. But that would mean you are not interested. And so the question must be asked. If you are not interested in religion at all, why bother posting about it.

Originally posted by nlouise
Correct, God can use mankind too.
The crusades were secret societies, which God is against.
The abortion doctor that was murdered was set up by CIA for other purposes.
Killing for God; I hope this explains it:

1 Timothy 4
1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

No that explains nothing. Human actions cannot be explained by invisible supernatural spirits manipulating people. That's a misguided viewpoint

Originally posted by Gorman91
So excuse me while I call you out on it, but my BS meter is alarmingly high, because you just made yourself a confirmed troll.

*YAWN*

Ad hominem can't save you from the fact that you're making stuff up and ignoring the obvious facts.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


What did I make up? How did I use Ad hominem?

Perhaps you shouldn't say random words and claims if you can't back them up.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by nlouise
Correct, God can use mankind too.
The crusades were secret societies, which God is against.
The abortion doctor that was murdered was set up by CIA for other purposes.
Killing for God; I hope this explains it:

1 Timothy 4
1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

No that explains nothing. Human actions cannot be explained by invisible supernatural spirits manipulating people. That's a misguided viewpoint

Spirituality, no matter which side of the fence it is on, is something that can't be explained. When you KNOW, no one can tell you different.

Human actions can definately be under the influence of the spirit world, and those actions are indicative as to which one.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

What did I make up? How did I use Ad hominem?

Perhaps you shouldn't say random words and claims if you can't back them up.

I didn't realize I would have to explain the obvious to a grown up. You made up the guilt of the 70K killed, you used ad hominem by calling me a troll.

I hope that's clear.

Originally posted by nlouise
Spirituality, no matter which side of the fence it is on, is something that can't be explained. When you KNOW, no one can tell you different.

"Spirituality" really has no value as a word. Describe specifically what you're referring to.

Human actions can definately be under the influence of the spirit world, and those actions are indicative as to which one.

Prove it.