Iraq Veterans Against the War Calls for Prosecution of Bush Administration Officials for War Crimes

Iraq Veterans Against the War Calls for Prosecution of Bush Administration Officials for War Crimes

www. veteranstoday.com

New York, NY – At its seventh annual national convention in Austin, Texas, IVAW called for the prosecution of senior Bush administration officials for allegedly conspiring to manipulate intelligence in order to justify the U.S. invasion of Iraq.

IVAW alleges that Bush administration officials conspired to create the perception that Saddam Hussein presented an imminent threat to the United States in order to bypass an uncooperative U.N. Security Council and secure a congressional Authorizatio

Article 1, Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution vests the power to authorize use of military for

(visit the link for the full news article)

Coming from veterans of the Iraq war, this has got to have some serious impact. These veterans of the Iraq war know they were duped into risking their lives, and that tragically many of their ranks lost their lives for no good reason based on lies and duplicity.

They are still fighting for their country and for their lost friends.

I love the way their resolution really cuts to the chase.

THANK YOU, THANK YOU IRAQ VETERANS. YOU ARE HEROES. PLEASE DON'T GIVE UP. MILLIONS SUPPORT YOU IN THIS.

www. veteranstoday.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

reply to post by wcitizen


Note the word 'conspired'.....

as in

Quote:

IVAW alleges that Bush administration officials conspired to create the perception that Saddam Hussein presented an imminent threat to the United States in order to bypass an uncooperative U.N. Security Council and secure a congressional Authorization for Use of Military Force against Iraq.

Unquote.

Thumbs up to all the tenacious conspiracy theorists who have not let this matter drop!!

I don't mean to hate on this case - because honestly, it's a noble case. They want to make the bush administration pay for what they feel was 'wrong' but here's the problem. When you get into this, you have to start defining 'what was justified' then you have to define 'COULD there have been a threat' which will then be backed by, "Well if they weren't dangerous, why are they fighting so hard..."

Y'know, I'm not saying it's a bad concept, and I'm not trying to justify what happened, but what I am saying? Is there is really no way to win this. It's impossible, there is so much legality that goes into just deploying our Army that it is more or less indefinitely approved that it was 'necessary' from there on out.

reply to post by Freedom1776


Yes, I do take your point, I know what mean, but I have a few thoughts on that perspective.

- in a criminal court the salient factor is 'beyond reasonable doubt'. So the defence, if this went to court, would have to prove that they had reasons 'beyond reasonable doubt' for believing in WMD, and SH's intention to use them. Given the amount of evidence which now exists, which has been increased by evidence in the Chilcot enquiry, I think they would be very hard pushed to substantiate their defence under such requirements.

- the fact that they clearly 'embroidered' the truth would render their defence less likely to be believed in a proper, non-cororupt court.

- if they didn't follow proper political policy in seeking agreement for the war, this can be proven beyond doubt.

- if they can't swing the first two charges, they will be in a very difficult position to swing the one about the change of law in Iraq.

If it even went as far as a trial for crimes against humanity that would be extremely bad news for them, even if they managed, through corruption of the legal system, go get a not-guilty verdict.

The main problem, as I see it, would be finding a judicial body which isn't corrupt. Imagine the money they would throw around trying to buy people off, not to mention assassinations to silence dangerous witnesses.

I still hope it happens. What would be excellent would be if many people/bodies filed the same charges against them. After all, every American citizen has the right to do so!

Whilst I agree with you on the difficulty of getting this to stick (mainly because of corruption IMHO), I think it's good not to feel defeated before it even starts. I'm really not being rude here, but I think we have to cease buying into the belief that they are all powerful...because that is what they want us to believe. I prefer to believe the seemingly impossible isn't impossible!

reply to post by wcitizen


Well how convenient. Election time is rolling around and a few disgruntled Democrat vets are trying to stir up an old pot of bushbash. How nice.

Ya right, charge the president with war crimes for eliminating one of the biggest mass murderers in world history, and liberating his country. You people are laughable.

The whole world thought at the time that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction and was also developing nuclear weapons.

www.time.com...

Seems to me that these disgruntled vets forgot why they had originally volunteered to join the military. They were doing just fine living off of the military dole until old Bush came around. Then they had to actually do some real fighting. They should of stayed at home and continued collecting welfare......instead of enlisting.

These vets do a great disservice to all veterans who have fought and died for the United States. If General Patton was still around, he would slap the living bejesus out of these cowards.

Good luck in November. If this is all you've got, you're gonna need a lot more than luck.

Edited to add......instead of enlisting.......and correct government dole to read,...military dole. Sorry if I offended any real veterans.....my sincere apologies.

[edit on 12-8-2010 by MY2Commoncentsworth]

Originally posted by MY2Commoncentsworth
reply to post by wcitizen

 

Well how convenient. Election time is rolling around and a few disgruntled Democrat vets are trying to stir up an old pot of bushbash. How nice.

Ya right, charge the president with war crimes for eliminating one of the biggest mass murderers in world history, and liberating his country. You people are laughable.

The whole world thought at the time that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction and was also developing nuclear weapons.

www.time.com...

Seems to me that these disgruntled vets forgot why they had originally volunteered to join the military. They were doing just fine living off of the government dole until old Bush came around. Then they had to actually do some real fighting. They should of stayed at home and continued collecting welfare.

These vets do a great disservice to all veterans who have fought and died for the United States. If General Patton was still around, he would slap the living bejesus out of these cowards.

Good luck in November. If this is all you've got, you're gonna need a lot more than luck.

Did you just say any member of the military not at war is collecting welfare? You insult every member of the military past and present and you say they are doing a great disservice to vets? If Patton was still around he would have been fired for telling the press Bush was an idiot for declaring victory in Iraq and ignoring the war he also started in Afganistan so that it would require the next President to come in and try and save it. You cleary know nothing of the military or war or those who fight them. So please never ever try and speak for us again. You just make a fool of yourself.

reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth


Did you realized you just insult the vets and probably every member of the military ?

The vets doing what they think are right any you scrutiny them for election baiting ?

I think you should stand down your opinion and move away from this post.

On topic, I think the vest need some awareness help from everyone. Pointing this post and participate would help a bit I guess.

S & F

reply to post by MrSpad


No, I did not say that any member of the military who is not at war is collecting welfare. Thanks for twisting my words.

Read my post. And don't try to put a muzzle on me. I will speak up and voice my opinions, views, and beliefs any time, and any place I choose, here on ATS, or anywhere else I choose to do so. *snip*



Mod edit: snipped personal jab

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[edit on 8/13/2010 by JacKatMtn]

reply to post by RainCloud

Originally posted by RainCloud
Did you realized you just insult the vets and probably every member of the military ?

Your post is insulting to me any every American Veteran who has sacrificed and to those who continue to sacrifice for freedom, and to every other American, dead or alive, who has benefited from those sacrifices.

The vets doing what they think are right any you scrutiny them for election baiting ?

This thread is a political bait trap. The OP brought politics in it from the start, just like the disgruntled vets. I see it has caught you as well.

I think you should stand down your opinion and move away from this post.

You wont silence me either. You stand down.

edited to add....that's great, call for the head of the Commander in Chief, if you're going to do that then why don't you call for President Obama's. Hypocrites!

[edit on 12-8-2010 by MY2Commoncentsworth]

reply to post by wcitizen
The tragedy is that any law student in the US could totally prosecute and get a conviction. Some of the crimes are really that blatant.

Alleging the Bush administration’s self-interested alterations to Iraqi economic, financial and other laws as illegal under international law, which the United States as occupying power is bound to adhere to;

Hell! I could prosecute this one: Exhibit A, Geneva Convention. Exhibit B, Paul Bremmers new laws as Viceroy of Iraq. Case closed

Understanding that prosecution of these officials is vital and necessary in order to prevent future, more egregious violations of the Constitution and international law, which Bush administration officials allegedly subverted;

Any claim that the current President makes concerning Rule Of Law is a sick and twisted joke unless the previous criminals are brought to justice.

All the speeches about not looking back but rather pressing forward only leads to more and bigger crimes. There is no moving away from these crimes until they're dealt with.

reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth


I'm a combat veteran (USMC 3rd Battalion 5th Marines). I spent nearly two years of mylife deployed in Iraq between 2003 and 2005.

I had brothers fighting by my side that did not return. We fought because that was our mission and as a Marine, we accept all orders and accomplish all missions without question.

That said, I do not (and did not) believe that the Bush Administration was in ANY way justified for invading and the reason for it (WMDs) was fabricated.

Well how convenient. Election time is rolling around and a few disgruntled Democrat vets are trying to stir up an old pot of bushbash. How nice.

Well, he is a war criminal.

Ya right, charge the president with war crimes for eliminating one of the biggest mass murderers in world history, and liberating his country. You people are laughable.

Saddam was no where NEAR the top mass murderer in the world's history:

Here's the top 15: thepirata.com...

Saddam is nowhere near any of those detailed in the link above. In fact, he was only attributed to the genocide of a few thousand - there are much worse genocides occurring now and then.

The whole world thought at the time that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction and was also developing nuclear weapons.

Nope, just the Bush Administration claimed he had WMDs (per CIA intel) - Other countries believed that intel was reliable and accurate. Hell, US Congress didn't even declare war, ever.

Seems to me that these disgruntled vets forgot why they had originally volunteered to join the military. They were doing just fine living off of the government dole until old Bush came around. Then they had to actually do some real fighting. They should of stayed at home and continued collecting welfare.

Us disgruntled vets fought and died for a war based on fabrications and lies.

These vets do a great disservice to all veterans who have fought and died for the United States. If General Patton was still around, he would slap the living bejesus out of these cowards.

Unless you're a veteran, your opinion holds not value. Assuming you did not serve, you do not understand what fighting a war is, you don't understand what fighting a war does to you. Thus, your opinion is null and invalid.

I for one, hold the Bush Administration accountable for those that lost their lives fighting by my side for your freedom.

Learn some respect.

[edit on 12-8-2010 by misinformational]

reply to post by misinformational

Originally posted by misinformational
Unless you're a veteran, your opinion holds not value. Assuming you did not serve, you do not understand what fighting a war is, you don't understand what fighting a war does to you. Thus, your opinion is null and invalid.

I for one, hold the Bush Administration accountable for those that lost their lives fighting by my side for your freedom.

Learn some respect.

Assuming you are a veteran, and not a misinformation agent, which I suspect you are, your opinion would be just as valid as mine.

You didn't fight for my freedom.

All you want to do is shut me up and take away my freedom of speech.

My father and both of his brothers fought in World War II. And when they came home, they did not badmouth Roosevelt like some were doing, even though he was dead, saying the same things *Snip* are saying today.......... Roosevelt conspired with Churchill to drag us into the war.

Those people would have been content to have seen Hitler take over the world.

I bet you think the US attacked the Twin Towers and the Pentagon on 9-11, don't you?

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[edit on 8/12/2010 by semperfortis]

reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth


I'll be more than happy exchange personal email addresses via u2u - from which I can provide proof of my service and deployments to Iraq (including proof of combat - read: Combat Action Ribbon)

Should you consent, you'll post back within this thread confirming such.

Originally posted by MY2Commoncentsworth

I bet you think the US attacked the Twin Towers and the Pentagon on 9-11, don't you?

If we dont attack it, then there is nothing to fear right ? back to topic

Now, the vets start asking a valid questions, why actually we need to go to war in the first place ?
No WMD found, elongated stays there, arent we supposed to find the WMD ?
Heck we even capture and kill the damn guy - Saddam. Mission accomplished.
Now why are we still staying there ?
What the hell are we doing there anyway ?

reply to post by misinformational

Originally posted by misinformational
I'll be more than happy exchange personal email addresses via u2u - from which I can provide proof of my service and deployments to Iraq (including proof of combat - read: Combat Action Ribbon)

Should you consent, you'll post back within this thread confirming such.

If you want to show proof of your military service, why don't you post it on here for all of us to see?

Why do you need my e mail to do that? What makes you think I would be stupid enough to give you any of my personal information?

reply to post by MY2Commoncentsworth

Why do you need my e mail to do that? What makes you think I would be stupid enough to give you any of my personal information?

Yet you're asking me to do so on this publicly available website - I will not post personal information within such. BTW, we'd both be exchanging personal information with each other - the risks are equally distributed.

My offer still stands - Your decision to not accept is illustrating where the cowardice lies.

[edit on 12-8-2010 by misinformational]

reply to post by misinformational

Originally posted by misinformational
My offer still stands - Your decision to not accept is illustrating where the cowardice lies.

Calling me a coward will not persuade me. I know the difference between cowardice and common sense.

I am not the one claiming to be a United States Veteran. Why don't you just redact and then post it if you feel you must prove that you served.

And even if you did e mail me with proof, all that would prove to me is that you are a disgruntled veteran who wants to see George Bush convicted of so called war crimes.

I do not give any such personal information to "anybody" on ATS. I would advise you to do the same.

reply to post by GeorgeBush


violence doesnt solve anything

this just proves you need to chill out

trying to get into a fight with someone you dont know its not a good idea, there are a lot of psychopaths out there, *snip*

and posting your email too is not a very smart idea for many reasons, so edit it and erase that



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[edit on 8/13/2010 by JacKatMtn]