US Judge: OK to extract confessions by threatening rape

Perhaps what we are seeing here is the coming shift to the Mexican system of Law.
Tortured confessions are admissible in Mexican Courts.
Doesnt it all make sense to you now?


[edit on 13-8-2010 by RRokkyy]

Bananmontana,

what world are you living in that thinks your immune to this? because your a Brit? News flash for you! who do you think taught the U.S how to do most of this? your country's history is filled with more blood than ours. yes what this guy did is wrong he should be shot. You people make me sick. that would never happen here we have a big brother system were our gov. has cams that watch us every were. your people are over their too.. and do you not think they do the same thing? I've worked with the brits in the u.k. they do the same thing.

Originally posted by Reaper2137
Bananmontana,

what world are you living in that thinks your immune to this? because your a Brit? News flash for you! who do you think taught the U.S how to do most of this? your country's history is filled with more blood than ours. yes what this guy did is wrong he should be shot. You people make me sick. that would never happen here we have a big brother system were our gov. has cams that watch us every were. your people are over their too.. and do you not think they do the same thing? I've worked with the brits in the u.k. they do the same thing.

a democracy making legal history and making case law to allow the admission of confessions under threat of gang rape to death of a child.

wouldn't happen here... sorry if that makes you sick, makes me sick as well

Originally posted by camaro68ss

I have visited ever major battle field in the Europe theater that the USA fought in in WW2. I paid my respects to the fallen US soldiers on that foreign soil. I payed my repects to patton himself at his grave site. I have seen D-day and the beaches, i visted bastone. I have visited ever major battle in the civil war. I study history. my father is the largest privet civil war collector in the united states. Your not the one who know what he is talking about. I feel sorry for you. i have family in iraq now. my family has been in every major battle this country has fought in all the way to the Revolutionary war. dont tell me i dont know anything about war. My family fought in those wars! your just soft and a big talker

People like you make me sick. Just because you've visited a site that has had a war and "paid your respects" to fallen heroes and generals doesn't mean squat. Your family may have fought in those wars, but you have no idea what they are about, and I don't care how many stories gramps told you about his time in the war, you still don't know anything about it. Unless you actually get off your sheltered ass and get into the thick of it, you have no room to talk.

I, on the other hand, have seen war. I've seen things that would make you lose your damn mind if you were put in the same position. You have no idea what lengths the enemy is willing to go to to harm you, because all you've ever known is the soft life of the average American. Based on what you've said, every teenager who's played a Call of Duty game or read Mein Kampf can say he knows about war because he's studied it. NOTHING you could ever read, watch, or listen to could EVER hold up to what war is really about.

You, sir, are the soft one, full of nothing but talk. When you actually go out and watch four of your brothers get blows to bits thirty feet away from you because they didn't have the heart to shoot a small boy with an IED strapped to him, then you can actually talk, until then shut up and stick to what you do know, which is nothing more than half-truths and lies told after everything's been said and done.

I find nothing wrong with threatening rape on a 15 year old TERRORIST. Age does not matter when it comes down to the cold hard facts of life. I myself will now no longer hesitate to put a bullet in a 5 year old, if I knew he was being used as a weapon against me or my brothers, simply because I have been there, I have seen it, and this crap actually happens. When someone is plotting, or is part of a plot, to bring harm to anyone, they are no longer a child, they are no longer innocent.

If I was in that position, I wouldn't have threatened rape, I would have tied the SOB down to a chair and ripped out his fingernails one by one until he gave the location of his co-conspiritors. And I wouldn't stop destroying his body piece by piece, causing as much pain as I possibly could, until I knew I had every scrap of information I could get out of him. Only then would I proceed to place a bullet in his worthless skull. Terrorists deserve no rights, they must be treated like the worthless dogs they are, and until you tree-hugging hippies realize this, we will never be able to ensure the safety of out loved ones and family. I truly wish that the next terrorist attack (and trust me, there will be more and more) hits your house, your community, your family. Then your attitude will be completely different in what "rights" these scum have.

I have lost too many loved ones to these dogs to care about what "rights" anyone else thinks they have. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who takes up for them can join them in their demise. I dare you to approach a real soldier and tell him that these terrorists deserve better treatment than what they're getting. Guarantee he rips your face off and feeds it to you you bastard.

reply to post by camaro68ss


Wait a second there cowboy... dont be so dismissive. You asked to see the law, I show you the law, and instead of admitting that maybe something is amiss you want to stick by the judges ruling... and not just any judge, but a military judge.

I dont usually come right out and say it, but in this case it is worth the warning. Your an idiot and a troll. Instead of actually debating or discussing the issue, it is obvious to me that you are simply trying to stir the pot and get a rise out of people. Ok, mission complete. You are done now, so go and spread your message of ignorance some place else, and I sincerely hope that one day it is not your mother, father, child, or family member or friend that is threatened with rape. If it is... just remember how much you supported this decision, and remember you asked for it. Good day to you sir.

Originally posted by Eldix

Originally posted by camaro68ss

I have visited ever major battle field in the Europe theater that the USA fought in in WW2. I paid my respects to the fallen US soldiers on that foreign soil. I payed my repects to patton himself at his grave site. I have seen D-day and the beaches, i visted bastone. I have visited ever major battle in the civil war. I study history. my father is the largest privet civil war collector in the united states. Your not the one who know what he is talking about. I feel sorry for you. i have family in iraq now. my family has been in every major battle this country has fought in all the way to the Revolutionary war. dont tell me i dont know anything about war. My family fought in those wars! your just soft and a big talker

People like you make me sick. Just because you've visited a site that has had a war and "paid your respects" to fallen heroes and generals doesn't mean squat. Your family may have fought in those wars, but you have no idea what they are about, and I don't care how many stories gramps told you about his time in the war, you still don't know anything about it. Unless you actually get off your sheltered ass and get into the thick of it, you have no room to talk.

I, on the other hand, have seen war. I've seen things that would make you lose your damn mind if you were put in the same position. You have no idea what lengths the enemy is willing to go to to harm you, because all you've ever known is the soft life of the average American. Based on what you've said, every teenager who's played a Call of Duty game or read Mein Kampf can say he knows about war because he's studied it. NOTHING you could ever read, watch, or listen to could EVER hold up to what war is really about.

You, sir, are the soft one, full of nothing but talk. When you actually go out and watch four of your brothers get blows to bits thirty feet away from you because they didn't have the heart to shoot a small boy with an IED strapped to him, then you can actually talk, until then shut up and stick to what you do know, which is nothing more than half-truths and lies told after everything's been said and done.

I find nothing wrong with threatening rape on a 15 year old TERRORIST. Age does not matter when it comes down to the cold hard facts of life. I myself will now no longer hesitate to put a bullet in a 5 year old, if I knew he was being used as a weapon against me or my brothers, simply because I have been there, I have seen it, and this crap actually happens. When someone is plotting, or is part of a plot, to bring harm to anyone, they are no longer a child, they are no longer innocent.

If I was in that position, I wouldn't have threatened rape, I would have tied the SOB down to a chair and ripped out his fingernails one by one until he gave the location of his co-conspiritors. And I wouldn't stop destroying his body piece by piece, causing as much pain as I possibly could, until I knew I had every scrap of information I could get out of him. Only then would I proceed to place a bullet in his worthless skull. Terrorists deserve no rights, they must be treated like the worthless dogs they are, and until you tree-hugging hippies realize this, we will never be able to ensure the safety of out loved ones and family. I truly wish that the next terrorist attack (and trust me, there will be more and more) hits your house, your community, your family. Then your attitude will be completely different in what "rights" these scum have.

I have lost too many loved ones to these dogs to care about what "rights" anyone else thinks they have. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who takes up for them can join them in their demise. I dare you to approach a real soldier and tell him that these terrorists deserve better treatment than what they're getting. Guarantee he rips your face off and feeds it to you you bastard.

It is a well known fact that troops experience profound psychological trauma , are medicated on duty and the suicide rate is rising, they are humans for the most part.

It is clear from your post you do need psychological help.


The fact of the matter is, The US Military have set a legal precedent and not one to be proud of.



I wont even begin to try and understand how you can mentally validate shooting a 5 year old, or wishing a terrorist attack on someone else.

The real reasons for going to war are posted on many a thread and it is as plain as day.


I suggest you seek help, for the sake of you and your loved ones.

reply to post by BANANAMONTANA


So what would you do, little miss high-and-mighty, if you had a five year old running at you with powerful explosives strapped to his chest? Your post just proves what I have been saying about the average American having no idea what real war is like. Also, I can wish a terrorist attack on someone, because that's obviously what it would take for them to wake up and see the world how it really is, not as the perfect little bubble that the American government has brainwashed them into thinking it is. People are willing to do things that most of you would never even dream of. Just because you've been deluded into living in a fantasy world where everyone acts kindly and has some moral and ethical sense doesn't mean that that's how it is. When you're faced with the decision of either shooting a child or letting numerous people you know and love die, what would you decide? I'm interested in hearing your answer to that.

Originally posted by Eldix
reply to post by BANANAMONTANA

 

So what would you do, little miss high-and-mighty, if you had a five year old running at you with powerful explosives strapped to his chest? Your post just proves what I have been saying about the average American having no idea what real war is like. Also, I can wish a terrorist attack on someone, because that's obviously what it would take for them to wake up and see the world how it really is, not as the perfect little bubble that the American government has brainwashed them into thinking it is. People are willing to do things that most of you would never even dream of. Just because you've been deluded into living in a fantasy world where everyone acts kindly and has some moral and ethical sense doesn't mean that that's how it is. When you're faced with the decision of either shooting a child or letting numerous people you know and love die, what would you decide? I'm interested in hearing your answer to that.

Sorry I will not be enticed into name calling to fuel delusions.

This thread is about a Judicial ruling and the implications therein.
I believe you presume too much, you have no knowledge of my very real experience of bombs and casualties of “war”.

Unless Sir you are vertically challenged I would suggest you RUN from a “groomed” 5 year old with a bomb strapped to their chest. I would indeed by very interested if you could provide me links regarding the 5 year old suicide bombers and rules of engagement.

The world now has a better view of the “rules of engagement” as interpreted by some servicemen with the aid of Julian Assange.

I am British.



It was a court ruling with no 5 year old suicide bombers in the vicinity.

reply to post by BANANAMONTANA


and that, my friends, is how you surgically dissect an argument based on informal fallacy.

Well stated. Know that there are Americans who see it the way you do, too. And we will fight to regain our country.

Originally posted by Eldix
reply to post by BANANAMONTANA

 

I find nothing wrong with threatening rape on a 15 year old TERRORIST.

That speaks volumes particularity with regards to your conscious level of understanding and perhaps evolution.

I am confused, with your Avatar you seem like such a family man. I see what I assume is your child.

My question is at what age do you think we lose our innocence as creative conscious awareness? When did you lose yours and what will you teach your child about innocence?

How unfortunate. This is a forum for the exchange of information for purpose of positive change. I dont think you belong here.

Alright people, I don't believe a word of this boognish. The threat is: "How about we put him in our jail system with the killers and rapists"

End

reply to post by name pending


We are suppose to be the good Guys this is wrong and lowers us to their level. This is the beginning of loosing the ideological war. We must uphold the Geneva convention? Suppose if he killed himslef rather than be raped??
The USA is better than this.

I wonder if this same judge was ever a school priest.

reply to post by Thepreye


Please, are you articulate enough to endeavor your own precognitive idiocy?

Sorry, I am one of the supposed right wing fringe, I find the wars and police state to be abhorrent and an affront to the Constitution and everything it espouses.

Why don't you take your divide and conquer crap and take a flying leap.

Catch all the spelling in this palaver of verbose blathering?

Please, the leftist elite stick their neck on the block once again!

lemme see a second source that doesn't cite your first source


buttt that's not going to happen is it?


you obama haters are lol

Originally posted by name pending

US Judge: OK to extract confessions by threatening rape

rawstory.com

In one of the first military commissions held under the Obama administration, a US military judge has ruled that confessions obtained by threatening the subject with rape are admissible in court.

The case involves Omar Ahmed Khadr, a citizen of Canada who was apprehended in Afghanistan when he was 15 years old and has remained in Guantanamo Bay for the last seven years awaiting trial for terrorism and war crimes.

(visit the link for the full news article)

So how long I wonder before this moves into mainstreme law enforcment..

Police might have another tool for extracting confessions from people they arrest. Rape, Torture and beatings could be used to make anyone at all, break and confess to just about any crime.

I think your country is going down the toilet my friend...

Originally posted by name pending

Threatening a 15yr old with anal (since it's a guy) or other 'kind' of rape to extract confession is now okay as per a US judge in trial of a Gitmo detainee. This is a perfect example for violation of Geneva convention and shaming of the judiciary process and a nation.

What has the legal system come to. Since when is it permissible to "extract truth" by threatening to sexually violate someone?

Threats by cops are bad, but this really is far worse; it's a kid, being held in a secret military prison being interrogated by another country. He has no idea what could really happen to him. Terrorizing a child with rape...can you imagine it? What if it was your kid held by a different country in some black site and threatened with rape to extract confession!! Simply appalling ruling by this kangaroo court.

rawstory.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Edit to add the direct link to article is not opening for some people you can read the cached page of the article
here



[edit on 12-8-2010 by name pending]

I always said Gitmo was wrong. It cheapens the best legal system in the world, by removing the subject from it.

"Trust us" they said; and this is the result - a kid threatened with rape compelled to say anything to keep that from happening. The end seldom justifies the means if it means sh*t like that happens.

Originally posted by DCPatriot

Originally posted by name pending

Threatening a 15yr old with anal (since it's a guy) or other 'kind' of rape to extract confession is now okay as per a US judge in trial of a Gitmo detainee. This is a perfect example for violation of Geneva convention and shaming of the judiciary process and a nation.

What has the legal system come to. Since when is it permissible to "extract truth" by threatening to sexually violate someone?

Threats by cops are bad, but this really is far worse; it's a kid, being held in a secret military prison being interrogated by another country. He has no idea what could really happen to him. Terrorizing a child with rape...can you imagine it? What if it was your kid held by a different country in some black site and threatened with rape to extract confession!! Simply appalling ruling by this kangaroo court.

rawstory.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Edit to add the direct link to article is not opening for some people you can read the cached page of the article
here



[edit on 12-8-2010 by name pending]

Surely, you can't be serious.

If it was YOUR mother's or child's life in the balance and you 'knew' the prisoner had personal knowledge that would give you a chance to save them...


...you'd apply the KY jelly.

Suggest you get your head out of your netherland and realize the USA is in a fight for its life.

You're darn right, DCPatriot. America is in a fight for its life, and the greatest threat to the honor and justice and promise of this nation is... people who spout terrorist views like yours.

Not that I think you should be denied a forum like this one where your views can be openly expressed! I wholeheartedly support your right to express these ideas openly and unedited--for how else can the rest of us find out how illogical and anti-American views like yours really are?

You have fallen past the tipping point on a very slippery slope, my friend. And peppering your screed with emotional car bombs like "...If it was YOUR mother's or child's life in the balance..." does not justify its intentions. The interrogators do not "personally know" that any of these detainees possesses ANY intel on any terrorist activities whatsoever. But they were and are under political pressure from the chicken-hawks in the US to produce results (i.e., headlines and court convictions that result in headlines)/ Such expediency is hardly in the same league as the justifications you cite for such illegal and immoral activity.

Because overall, the rule has been that these younger detainees are merely goat-herd youths who were in the wrong place at the wrong time when the Bush-led invasion force was looking to pick up prisoners in order to fabricate evidence proving that a largely fictional terrorist organization called "Al Qaida" really existed.

And the rape threats do not begin and end with underage men being threatened. Men and women have been threatened with the rape of their own children and spouses while they are forced to watch.

And is it all just an idle threat? Do we really only threaten rape and then just, say, waterboard them if they fail to give us information or a confession? Earlier, a poster contemptuously deplored another member's naivete. Perhaps that contempt would be better lathered on those who trust that this threat of rape is simply an idle one

Originally posted by Eldix



If I was in that position, I wouldn't have threatened rape, I would have tied the SOB down to a chair and ripped out his fingernails one by one until he gave the location of his co-conspiritors. And I wouldn't stop destroying his body piece by piece, causing as much pain as I possibly could, until I knew I had every scrap of information I could get out of him. Only then would I proceed to place a bullet in his worthless skull. Terrorists deserve no rights, they must be treated like the worthless dogs they are, and until you tree-hugging hippies realize this, we will never be able to ensure the safety of out loved ones and family. I truly wish that the next terrorist attack (and trust me, there will be more and more) hits your house, your community, your family. Then your attitude will be completely different in what "rights" these scum have.

LOL
If only you were on our side.

brit chick lol..

what I was saying that you missed the point. is that the U.K is no different than the united states save maybe you have better spin doctors than we do I was over in Iraq right along side the brits they did and do the same thing we do. only difference is they are a small country and have better spin doctors. just because you don't hear about it on the BBC only shows how good your gov. is the united states learned from the best only we arn't as good as you brits yet and covering our assess

and you won't find any ROE on shooting a five year old. it happens trust me on that. I've never had to shoot a kid before don't know if I could but they use every thing they can I've seen donkey bombs retard bombs their kids. the kids tho are bad for moral if ya know what I mean.