US Judge: OK to extract confessions by threatening rape

I truly can say this thread contains some of the most horrifying pieces of information I have ever read,.

The validation of rape and sodomy under duress of another human has made me feel nauseous and I had to walk away.

It is no secret that rape has been a war crime for eons, but for a Judge to uphold that view is simply diabolical.

The CIA , what country would not be proud of such fine upstanding bastions of humanity.

I find it depressing to think I share the same air as these people and that goes for some people posting here. I will tell you that the threat of rape is one of the most terrifying ordeals any man, woman or child will endure. I was lucky I escaped and I am sure many women you know and even on ATS have endured similar threats.

Control, hate , violence and murder = the tools of the CIA, all psychopaths.

Now we have Prosecutors removing a US Army officer , a juror , for holding such “different” views as agreeing with Obama that the Guantanamo Bay prison camps should be closed down.

Do wake me up this is the USA we are talking about yes ?

How fitting when we look at the neutral nature of the US legal system re Muslims
Supreme Court refuses Muslim's case about possible juror bias

The US Supreme Court on Monday declined to take the case of a Muslim defendant in Colorado whose lawyer was barred from questioning a prospective juror who, during jury selection, expressed concern that he might be biased against Muslims.


The trial judge refused to allow the defense lawyer to closely question the prospective juror about his possible anti-Muslim prejudice. The judge also refused a request that the individual be excluded from the jury.
Instead, the man became one of 12 jurors who heard evidence in a trial infused with anti-Islamic and anti-Muslim themes and comments, according to court documents.

.
I am so proud to be British


I will not even waste my time answering some of the “red necked” comments posted here, as in this case I find it difficult to try and respond to my own emotions.

Shameful …........even animals treat each other better

reply to post by InvisibleAlbatross


I must admit that the picture I get is one of a young boy being accussed because he was the easiest to blame. The circumstantial evidence may have slightly nodded in his direction. It may have seemed to the soldiers arriving on the scene that the boy tried to frag some soldiers but included himself in the act.

I would have to know WHY the soldiers singled this kid out as the guilty. Soldiers normally would pin the act on an adult (I believe there was a dead combatant there also) than a woman or child. One of the soldiers must have seen something, he may have misinterpreted what he saw, but he saw something.

One of the reasons I parted ties with the military was because our hands were tied. We had to fight fair while the enemy used every dirty trick they could and then some.

Really I'm somewhat torn, because America is supposed to set a standard and up hold it, but in war that standard can really hinder you. It can cause you casualties and having to deliver "death letters" to your buddies family.

Like I said, it's too thin a line to discuss almost. I know there were things I believed I would oppose until I was in that situation and bullets were mixing with flesh.

On another note, in my current position while talking to the young people here in America who have been on the wrong track, I often tell them what will happen to them if they go to prison for the stupid stuff they are doing. I tell them that the grown men in prison haven't seen a woman in a while and that kids/young men are basically the women in a penal environment. So if they go to prison while they are 14-20, it's almost guaranteed they will be turned out.

So in other words your upset that we have people here in the US that are willing to do what it takes to get the job done? I know we should let him free and allow him to go back to his country and start plotting the next big attack.

Is he an american citizen - no

Is he affilited with Al-qida or other "terroristic" org - yes

Would his people (Al-qida) do the same to us or worse - yes

Have his people done worse to us - yes

Have they done done worse to completly innocent people just to prove a point - yes

Originally posted by jmotley
So in other words your upset that we have people here in the US that are willing to do what it takes to get the job done? I know we should let him free and allow him to go back to his country and start plotting the next big attack.

Is he an american citizen - no

Is he affilited with Al-qida or other "terroristic" org - yes

Would his people (Al-qida) do the same to us or worse - yes

Have his people done worse to us - yes

Have they done done worse to completly innocent people just to prove a point - yes

Is your entire post an emotionally based response with absolutely no understanding or foundation in the Constitution? - yes

Using the excuse of "they would do worse to us" is small minded, and representative of a mindset that seems to have infiltrated our once fine nation.

Moral equivalency is a poor excuse, no matter how you slice it.

RE: "his" people....he is Canadian. Do you have that much resentment towards Canada? Or have you not informed yourself of the facts of this case? If the latter is true, it might be further indication that you have provided an emotional response not founded in fact and logic.

reply to post by jmotley


Was he a child? Yes
Does the US treat children like adults in court? Not until now
Did the soldiers who captured him change their story multiple times? Yes
Can those soldiers thus be trusted? Answer should be obvious here

reply to post by BANANAMONTANA


I find your stance admirable and to be applauded.

However I will also state that the business of war is not for the faint of heart. There is no room for humanity in war.....sad to say. It's the reason most people choose not to participate in it. They couldn't handle the truth of what happens during combat.

You probably do not know how it feels to pick up your buddies pieces. Your buddy who you've been closer to in the years of training than even your own mother/father. Yes that is how close you can get to your squad! Now imagine coming upon that buddy, blown to hell by a grenade, entrails hanging out, limbs gone, but he's still alive, crying, not because he doesn't want to die but because he knows he IS dying and it can't be helped. The anger that comes from this scenario is maddening.

War isn't for everyone and is why until recently, the general public didn't hear many of the true details. They wouldn't be able to handle it and will vote to further tie servicemembers hands making them even more vunerable.

Now to threaten the kid with rape..........takes a special type of person anyway. I mean.....where does that line of thinking come from anyway? LOL! I can imagine the nick-names the other soldiers have for this guy.

When the statement was made I bet there were other people in the vicinity who were like or

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


Like you, I have noticed that all of the people advocating rape of a child have no understanding of the facts of the case. Interesting that they feel themselves qualified to comment when they have no idea of the case.

reply to post by DZAG Wright


Fortunately the waste of skin who threatened to rape a child is no longer in the military. Unfortunately he also got away with murder on top of criminal threats.

Originally posted by jmotley
So in other words your upset that we have people here in the US that are willing to do what it takes to get the job done? I know we should let him free and allow him to go back to his country and start plotting the next big attack.

Is he an american citizen - no

Is he affilited with Al-qida or other "terroristic" org - yes

Would his people (Al-qida) do the same to us or worse - yes

Have his people done worse to us - yes

Have they done done worse to completly innocent people just to prove a point - yes

So our Declaration of Independence and the virtures and morals our country was founded upon only apply to our citizens? Are they not "self-evident" rights of mankind?

So, we attack a country because of a tyrranical dictator, yet it is fine for us to adopt the same practices in our treatment of humans, just because they would do it? If that is true, then why attack at all?

Should we do this to completely innocent people as well? Bring in the step-father of a raped girl (they are always the first suspect). Give him the broom handle treatment for a couple of hours. If he doesn't confess, we just send him home and say better luck next time, we'll go try to find the guilty party now and give them the same treatment until someone confesses? No one can lie to the broom handle!

Originally posted by CynCritter
NONE of you "get it."

The threat of being raped, especially if you're MUSLIM, will create a lot of false testimony. Lots of women in the US have been raped (and never reported it) so many times, it's become common (I'm sorry to say). But when you threaten a CHILD, and especially a Muslim child, with such a crime, the person intimating it is perpetrating a CRIMINAL ACT. Those children are NOT LIKE US! And it's extremely unfair to treat them the way we treat our own.

He probably WAS raped... by our own American guards. And if I really believed in a Hell, I'd want them to burn there for it.

He was only 8 or 9 when his father uprooted him from a life in America, and took him to a foreign land to be trained to fight a fight that was NOT of his own choosing. But it was indoctrinated in him. The Child who is now a MAN is not to blame for what his parents taught him, nor for what we have done to their countries. We have NO BUSINESS fighting a War in any land where we don't comprehend the beliefs and the politics.

Better that we should make an effort to let him see what it's like to grow up in a traditional AMERICAN home, under close supervision, before we condemn him for life. We need to at least give him a chance to be redeemed.

And, we can't ever win... If you don't know that by now, you're as handicapped as HE is.

That is the biggest load of B.S. I have ever heard. Once he reached a certian point in his life he was able to make the decsion for himself. YES he is to be held responible for his actions. I was a child that was taught to sell drugs, I was taught by my father that women are to be used, his words "get your self a B&^%h and take what you want and then roll out" I am now 30 and I chose a long time ago (before I was 18) not to live that life. It is a load of BS to say that he should not be held responsible for his actions. If he wanted out he would have gotten out.

reply to post by jmotley


Please tell me how a child leaves a warzone by himself?

reply to post by DZAG Wright


I understand that war is not life to me, and as humans we do try and survive at all costs.

The nature of your close life or death relationship with your buddies would indeed and should be applauded.

I hope you find peace from all you have seen and experienced , and comfort can be found . I hope you have the support of your country to provide and help you and others that return. I know mental illness and PTSD is prevalent in brave people who fought in wars. I also hope you remain untouched.

I do not doubt that that in times of near death the primal in the human will come forth.


What I find most offensive is that a Judge sitting on his arse in the safe environment of an office can promote such vitriol and hatred.

I also find it disgusting and reprehensible that the CIA condone rape with bottles, that dogs are trained to rape people and children are fair game.

I also find it offensive that people posting here who have seen more war action in “Cowboys and Indians” movies condoning such rulings and actions.

I have met soldiers and talked at end about how life has changed for them, and how it was a battle for survival and I spoke to men who murdered and turned to a life of god, I bear them no ill will.

I wish you peace


[edit on 13-8-2010 by BANANAMONTANA]

Originally posted by jmotley
So in other words your upset that we have people here in the US that are willing to do what it takes to get the job done? I know we should let him free and allow him to go back to his country and start plotting the next big attack.

Is he an american citizen - no

Irrelevant.

Is he affilited with Al-qida or other "terroristic" org - yes

Prove it. Al Q'aeda and the Taliban are not the same thing. Going to fight for Afghanistan Muslims does not make you a terrorist no matter how odious you might find it.

Would his people (Al-qida) do the same to us or worse - yes

Prove who "his people" are. Prove they have something to do with Al-Q'aeda beyond tangential Western xenophobia.

Have his people done worse to us - yes

Again, "his people"? Who? The 9/11 attackers were not Afghanis. Does this still escape you or do you simply fail to differentiate between different people in Asia and the Middle East?

Have they done done worse to completly innocent people just to prove a point - yes

See above. Fear mongering ignorant drivel.

What are our soldiers fighting for?

What are our sons, daughters, brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, aunts, uncles, etc; fighting for?

What freedom are we imposing on other nations and losing at home?

Forget the article for a second.

Why does the US have bases outside of its own soil?

Is America "on board" with "the job" that is "gettin done" beyond our borders.

Is war hell? Yes. However that does not mean it should be continued.

The boogieman that we chase is our own shadow.

We lock down our own borders, occupy foreign lands and steal from other nations to continue a lifestyle of consumerism.

It is sick and we all need to scream 'stop' until this cycle is broken.

I see no value in 6 billion suffering because a few thousand psychopaths (including American war mongers) world-wide continue to dominate a world in which we are blessed with a finite time.

The US needs to yield and apologize.

reply to post by name pending

It is beginning to look like the Obama Administration is treating the Geneva Conventions (treaties) like they do the US Constitution. They treat them like "living breathing documents" that they can interpret to mean whatever they want. No one should be surprised. They are just being "Progressives"!

reply to post by CharlesMartel


Exactly. The Obama Administration has proven itself no better than the Bush Administration.

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes


Psychological torture is what we are talking about here, and we are talking about a Threat, not an actual event. It is a matter of individual State's laws and procedures as to the legality of such a threat, in a non American country, anything that happens is not within American jurisdiction. I do, based on my Constitutional stance, believe strongly that the jury should be advised of this technique, and allowed to take the form of interrogation into account in their decision concerning the case at hand.

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by Sherlock Holmes

 

Psychological torture is what we are talking about here, and we are talking about a Threat, not an actual event. It is a matter of individual State's laws and procedures as to the legality of such a threat, in a non American country, anything that happens is not within American jurisdiction. I do, based on my Constitutional stance, believe strongly that the jury should be advised of this technique, and allowed to take the form of interrogation into account in their decision concerning the case at hand.

I disagree. The fundamental stance of American's worldwide is to spread democracy, freedom, and human rights. We must act as "Americans" regardless of where we are at the time. If my wife and I travel to a Muslim country, can I then treat her by shariah law? Does she become chattel to me? What happens when we return to the US? Does she magically get her American rights back?

The issue here goes beyond even the law and the Constitution. We should not make any idle threats, because we lose bargaining power and credibility when we do. Therefore, if we threaten to rape a suspect, we must be willing to follow through on that threat, and according to too many reports, we are willing to do so. ........... In that case, do we really need a law to tell us that raping a 15 year old boy is wrong?

Another issue I have is war criminals? There are warriors/soldiers and there are criminals. Rape is not allowable by anyone. And it is equally ridiculous to charge an enemy combatant with a crime? Is fighting against the US in wartime a crime? How? I guess all of our POW/MIA in Vietnam and Korea were held there legally according to local laws that they broke as soldiers during the war?

Fighting a war is not a crime....not for either side. Raping a 15 year old boy is never an act of war or an act of interrogation. It is a crime. War or no war! Threatening to rape a 15 year old boy is just a stupid interrogation tactic, unless you have the willingness to follow through. Therefore even the threat of it is a crime! (Motive, Means, Opportunity, this interrogator had all 3, and made the threat. Therefore it is a crime!)

reply to post by autowrench


It has created case law... it is a Judicial disaster for a "democracy".


It sets a precedent.... it makes it "legitimate" to use against other children.

A death threat of gang rape to death..or confess / tell us what we want to hear, and then use what they say in court....

It has been "decided" it is now a perfectly "legal" procedure.

Its a disgusting disaster.... I feel sick

reply to post by jmotley


You have proved to many people here some people comprise 60% mammal 30% crazy and 10% propaganda.

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about and the fact that you spout such uneducated views make me feel a tad sorry for you.(in a bad way, not a sympathetic way).

You need to realize that this boy has grown up surrounded by certain types of people who have helped to form this young guys mind to one that resembles their own.

In parts of America TODAY mainly in the south their are people called "god fearing folk". these people worship the bible as if it was written as a serious piece of literature based on actual events. They attend church together with other similar people in their community and give praise to a man they have never seen and a man they will never ever see. All the while being able to support the murder and killing of mass amounts of heathens by smashing their bible over the unbelievers head 20000 times. This is also called "Healing". These groups call themselves Christians and believe this man who was nailed to a cross did this for the sake of man-kind. This has since been proven to be incorrect as mankind is completely screwed worse than ever. They believe if the attend a church or mass gathering of like minded tards and hand copious amounts of money to the "Reverend, Pastor, Father, Con man, pedophile etc" then they are helping the church to fight the good fight. These religious types are sure that the messiah will return for them and save their souls. If someone questions their religion or belief in ELOHIM gods first name in the old testicles (or testament) you will see an amazing tantrum of epic proportions ensue, dribble and all.



However, each of these groups of communities will have children within them. Guess what these children who have grown up within these communities are also brainwashed into believing in god to that extent too. Just by being around these religious patriots the adults view become ingrained in the being of the children.


This is what happened to the 15 year old boy when he was dragged from the Beaver Loving Canadians. He was brainwashed and did what his father and all his fathers insane friends and family did. He became them.

Children are a product of their parents.

So learn some life lessons my friend and try to THINK before you blab.