Mars Melt Hints at Solar, Not Human, Cause for Warming, Scientist Says

Originally posted by KingAtlas
The conspiracy elite here have spoken "DURRR SEE IT THE SUN THATS HOT, I AM HAPPY NOW THAT SCIENTISTS SAYS THAT THE SUN IS MAKING IT HOTTER"

Could not help but laugh at the "durrr"

Originally posted by KingAtlas
My second and scarier point is this: Science has said global wrming is happening on mars,ok. So if then that means that the man made cause has been completly debunked, then everyone continues on, and there is no stopping of the toxic waste being put into OUR atmosphere, then what is the logical outcome? anyone?

I will play!

We will mutate into nutrient and heat seeking blobs?
We will kill ourselves eventually?
We will develope into seperate creatures like in the time machine story?

Lets clear a few things up -

Pleas listen carefully -

Global warming is not a uniform theory that everywhere will be hotter from one season to the next. It is an average global temperature. The consequences of this long term heating (as opposed to seasonal) will means different things for different climate regions, some will be wetter, while others drier.

The previous heating of the planet was primarily due to massive carbon quantities in the atmosphere - over millions of years this has come down as carbon has been sequestered through plants, animals and natural subduction.

The fluctuations we see causing the regular patterns of ice age are caused by earths variation in orbit, coming closer to the sun every 100,00 thousand years or so. There is also a natural WOBBLE in our rotation within that orbit and this causes smaller more frequent variations on top of this 100,000 year trend sometime these coincide.

On top of this there are occasional massive outpurings og Co2, such as when India crashed into Europe and caused a massive spike in global temperatures through a huge co2 burst.

During the 70's there was a perception that we would be heading back into another ice age as our natural orbit and wobble were heading that way, so while global temperatures should be dropping they are in fact increasing at a time when we should be heading into a cooler climate.

The assessment of a single year of data from a single scientist that earths temperatures are increasing due to solar activity because Mars is experiencing glacial retreat is is the worst form of logic i have ever seen and is about as scientific as a Las Vegas magic show.

To seize upon this as evidence of a global conspiracy simply means you have no interest in understanding the truth but would instead prefer to find obtuse, obscure and profoundly illogical myths to back up your belief rather than find out the truth.

reply to post by digby888


The planets are heating up not from the outside, but from the inside.
The global warming bit is a hoax to have more money, in otherwords, everyone go "green".

this planet has her cycles, but we contribute alot:
put out a huge amount of emmissions/pollution and at the same time cut down rain forests, etc.

Testing nuclear bombs through the years on the surface of this planet.

Not only drilling deep from land but doing it also at greater depths in the seas.

Our solar system goes through its phases, just as living things have their phases, too. There has been alot of word about solar flares, 2012, Nibiru, WWW3, mass depopulation, etc......No matter what events (one or several), either way, our world will change....There were may warnings that said "end of world as you know it".If people actually read those words, the "as you know it" pretty much means there will be alot of adapting we will need to do because of the upcoming changes. Instead of folks accusing others of fearmongering, they should stop for a moment and realize that for any crises, it is wise for people to be prepared: earthquakes, wildfires, storms, etc.

You mentioned Mars, and I am still wondering what happened to that planet long ago, and could the same thing happen to this one. maybe a solar storm hit Mars and missed us. Maybe our turn is next. who knows?
But everyone should make sure they have supplies, etc.
the world as we know it runs so much on tech and electricity. so without those two things, yeah, hell will break loose, but right now, dont wait, and dont disregard good advice.....ask your elders how they lived long ago when they didnt have all this stuff. Living like the "old days" will likely be what will come, and will be hard at first but people will live on.

Thank you for the link. I havent visited National Geographic for a long time.

Originally posted by Unst0ppable0ne
reply to post by SeventhSeal

 

I don't agree with that at all...

If we reduced our CO2 output, Earth can actually clean a lot of the excess CO2, and return to normal levels.

If we create more CO2 than Earth can handle, it will just build up in the atmosphere and cause problems.

The smoking for 30 years analogy is not accurate. It's more accurate to say that our CO2 problem is like being an alcoholic with a strong liver. Although their blood alcohol level has been high for many years, if you reduce the alcohol levels the liver will filter the blood back to normal levels.



[edit on 8-8-2010 by Unst0ppable0ne]

Actually you are quite wrong,
Co2 is a residual gas, it stays in the atmosphere not just days, weeks or years but centuries, it is cumulative.

So even if we stopped all Co2 as of tomorrow we would still see temperature rise for much of this century, so any further increase in co2 is going to be disastrous.

According to the worlds leading authority on global warming james Hansen,
and many others we have passed the threshold for preventing runaway global warming - this means that the positive feedbacks will kick in and become ever more destructive.

There is little doubt amongst those at the forefont of this issue that the world has passed by the opportunity to actually do anythnig about global warming, remember that a 3 degree temperature rise would spell the end of current civilisation - the end - and to prevent a 2 degree rise we needed to take co2 output to 20% below 1990 levels by year 2000. We have increased our output by almost 40 times since then.

China will be building 200 cities of a million people or more over the next 30 years - there are only 35 cities in all of europe of a million or more people.

In other words - the long term build up of co2 is the problem, - not annual emission, it lasts for centuries.

On top of all of this the soot from coal and deisel has been causing a natural increase in the albedo effect through cloud formation - as we reduce our coal dependence there will be spikes and jumps in temperatures - in other words things are already far, far worse than they appear.

Originally posted by SeventhSeal
It's pretty ignorant (and stupid) to not believe we are responsible for this planet's unnatural evolutionary process. However, even if we do make the right step into green energy, it'd take years to rebuild Earth and to heal it...I believe it's far too late for any healing. It's almost the same as smoking for about....30 years and stopping. The damage is done. Not much to do to bandage the wounds up...

Kind of cynical? I also agree that mankind is contributing to global changes, but I don't think we are solely responsible.

Originally posted by SeventhSeal
Earth does go through cycles and like a species such as ours, it evolves...but like I stated before, we're helping the unnatural evolution of it...aka global warming.

I can agree with you lightly. If you think about how long it has been since Earth has undergone massive changes, I would not doubt that we will live to see it happen in real-time. I don't think we are going through unnatural geological changes. It has been too-too long since the last geological shift.

African Desert Rift Confirmed As New Ocean In The Making

So, logically this would mean every planet in the SS should be warming at a level determined by it's average distance from the Sun.

Is every planet warming, even though we are in a Solar Minimum?

No.

www.skepticalscience.com...



"There are three fundamental flaws in the 'other planets are warming' argument. Not all planets in the solar system are warming. The sun has shown no long term trend since 1950 and in fact has shown a slight cooling trend in recent decades. There are explanations for why other planets are warming.

There are several flaws in this line of thought. Firstly, the characterisation that the whole solar system is warming is erroneous. Around 6 planets or moons out of the more than 100 bodies in the solar system have been observed to be warming. On the other hand, Uranus is cooling (Young 2001).

Secondly, the theory that a brightening sun is causing global warming falls apart when you consider the sun has shown little to no trend since the 1950s. A variety of independent measurements of solar activity including satellite data, sunspot numbers, UV levels and solar magnetograms all paint a consistent picture. Over the last 35 years of global warming, sun and climate have been moving in opposite directions."



The Earth should be COOLING due to DECREASED SOLAR IRRADIANCE.

But we are instead warming, due to the Greenhouse Effect.

reply to post by __rich__


Well said,
would add that the inference that Mars glacial sheets are retreating, where we have absolutely no long term data - on anything beyond linear measurements of glacial sheets - is an inadequate foundation for negating all the evidence and measurements for earth bound activities.

A comparative line of thinking would be assuming that an orbital variation in a celestial body similar to our own can only be attributed to an increase in the suns density - there is absolutely no evidence for correlation beyond unsubstantiated assumption - the very, very worst kind of reasoning.

The man-made global warming theory is a HOAX. Science has proven that it is solar UV rays (fluctuations) causing the issue. NASA evidence has proven it, but has been hidden from public scrutiny. Their data has shown that the ozone has naturally rejuvenated itself. It's gotten better! The UV issue has been happening since the beginning of time. Leave it to those phony a-hole croonies in your government (Al Gore, Etc...) to exploit it.

Can you say? Carbon Tax

It's a scam folks...............better get your ZOMBIE stash ready!

reply to post by Speedforhire

Global warming has nothing to do with UV radiation or the ozone layer. The Earth is heated by infrared radiation from the Sun.

There has been more volcanic activity responsible for depositing ash into the upper athmosphere that is causing a change around the globe than any other type of man made or man created "global warming".

The concept that man, is totally responsible for creating global warming is absurb.

Monitoring the level changes in the planets throughout the solar system seems to indicate it is having an effect on all the planets in our solar system.

reply to post by MBSCSDD

Volcanic "ash" in the upper atmosphere lowers temperatures.
wattsupwiththat.com...

I think the rise in temperature on the earth and other planets/moons might be caused by the same thing that I think is causing an accelerating red shift in our universe - an increasing gravity. I just explained this idea in a thread last week - here.

Certainly man and the sun have effects on our climate, but I think the major trends we're noticing on the earth and elsewhere need a more consistent explanation.

Genesis 1:14

And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years.

DMB

... The sun's a little brighter today ...

its just horrible to think about the greed in humanity and the blood sucking idiots that come up with this crap....wow do these people actually think humans are the cause for earth to change...there has been scientific studies that prove humans have had very little to no effect to global warming...just that these scientists have been discreddited or mysteriously came up missing....as this whole global warming thing started people were like oh well now everywhere you look global warming this and global warming that...one can see the incredible profit to be made here...and the people making these power saving devices are the ones to benefit....

Global warming is a complex issue which I will try to explain, briefly.

Increasing temperatures due solely to mankind or the sun are half right. It is a combination of the two. Humans cut down the forests slowing the worlds ability to reduce co2 levels. We pump a butt ton of co2 into the atmosphere. Burn holes in said atmosphere, decreasing our efficency at restricting solar heat. All the while, the sun is in an increasing warming cycle for the solar system. Someone said our system was entering a system-wide dust cloud, causing heat from friction in atmospheres.

Increasing temperatures will cause an increased melting in the ice caps. This increased melting of ice caps will lower the salinity of the polar waters. Decreased salinity of the seas will effect the warm currents headed towards the poles, causing them to stop or start their return trip(to the equator) on the sea floor sooner. This causes cooler temps in such latitudes, an ice age if given sufficient time in this trend.


I'm not a scientist but this is what i've learned from articles and television shows.

Later,
Azrael

[edit on 8-8-2010 by Azrael Falls]

Geesh! Some of you turds just won't flush. Science has proven man wrong and will continue to prevail. Man has nothing to do with climate change. Dig deep and you will find the answers you're seeking.

So long sheeple!

reply to post by Speedforhire


You will find it the other way around - there has been a massive global conspiracy to deny global warming - and you my friend are a victim of this conspiracy - deny ignorance.

Originally posted by Le Colonel
reply to post by C0bzz

 

your graph does not show enough data. Why cant the Earth heat up, um, every 10,000 years or so..

your little graph of 40 years well shows, 40 years of data.. YOU are saying cause the world heating up in your life time, that it will just continue and continue until we all cook?

it will go back down, and when it does, every person like you will start to say or scream in some cases, GLOBAL COOLING.. oh noos :0

No graph we have can possibly show enough data either way. That's why nobody, NOBODY, can say definitively whether or not man is having an impact on the climate or not. We can only make assumptions and arguments to both. But one of the two we can control.

Originally posted by Quaght

Originally posted by Le Colonel
reply to post by C0bzz

 

your graph does not show enough data. Why cant the Earth heat up, um, every 10,000 years or so..

your little graph of 40 years well shows, 40 years of data.. YOU are saying cause the world heating up in your life time, that it will just continue and continue until we all cook?

it will go back down, and when it does, every person like you will start to say or scream in some cases, GLOBAL COOLING.. oh noos :0

No graph we have can possibly show enough data either way. That's why nobody, NOBODY, can say definitively whether or not man is having an impact on the climate or not. We can only make assumptions and arguments to both. But one of the two we can control.

Sorry thats just rubbish. Absolute rubbish.
The science is unequivocal on the subject. There is 97% percent certainty on global warming - as a comparison there is 95% certainty that the sun will come up tomorrow. In other words is a fact.

The only science and arguments against global warming are put forward by lying, paid, industry propagandists - so please do not assume that there is any doubt about global warming - there is none where it matters and that is science.
The idea that the opinions of ignorant laymen have any bearing on the scientific consensus is absolute garbage. The opinion that the earth is flat in way counters the fact that it is not - there are plenty who still hold this view but are in no way correct - and attempting to claim that since people simply hold this view, or any other blatantly ridiculous view, somehow means that there is an equitable doubt surrounding the issue is also absurd.
The science is not in any doubt, the only doubt there is is paid, sponsored propaganda put forward by oil cartels - and this counts for absolutely nothing.

I love how many scientists frequent this site.
2. Edit for 2nd line. Some people study science their whole lives. I trust them more than ATS members.

[edit on 8-8-2010 by SirTFiedSkeptic]