Israeli Organ Trafficking Ring Busted

Originally posted by chips
reply to posts by ZeroKnowledge and princeofpeace

 

It's no use with ProtoplasmicTraveler - he's a cringeworthy, Israel-obsessed fruit cake. His lack of self-awareness produces some occasional comedy gold, though.

Have you ever tried reading one of his dreary, languid, pseudo-intellectual rants? Heh.

Aw ad homs, that's a nice tactic to derail a thread.

Originally posted by hippomchippo

Originally posted by chips
reply to posts by ZeroKnowledge and princeofpeace

 

It's no use with ProtoplasmicTraveler - he's a cringeworthy, Israel-obsessed fruit cake. His lack of self-awareness produces some occasional comedy gold, though.

Have you ever tried reading one of his dreary, languid, pseudo-intellectual rants? Heh.

Aw ad homs, that's a nice tactic to derail a thread.

I'm not derailing anything, dear (although I might be a Zionist agent) - get back to what you were discussing.

xxx

Originally posted by chips

Originally posted by hippomchippo

Originally posted by chips
reply to posts by ZeroKnowledge and princeofpeace

 

It's no use with ProtoplasmicTraveler - he's a cringeworthy, Israel-obsessed fruit cake. His lack of self-awareness produces some occasional comedy gold, though.

Have you ever tried reading one of his dreary, languid, pseudo-intellectual rants? Heh.

Aw ad homs, that's a nice tactic to derail a thread.

I'm not derailing anything, dear (although I might be a Zionist agent) - get back to what you were discussing.

xxx

Ah, nice straw man, nobody here called you a Zionist "agent"
You're not derailing, you're just insulting the thread starter for no reason?

reply to post by hippomchippo

nobody here called you a Zionist "agent"

I never said they did.

Come on - back on topic.

Originally posted by hippomchippo

Originally posted by chips
reply to posts by ZeroKnowledge and princeofpeace

 

It's no use with ProtoplasmicTraveler - he's a cringeworthy, Israel-obsessed fruit cake. His lack of self-awareness produces some occasional comedy gold, though.

Have you ever tried reading one of his dreary, languid, pseudo-intellectual rants? Heh.

Aw ad homs, that's a nice tactic to derail a thread.

Interestingly enough the ATS profile displays someone who is obsessed with Israel issues, as well as all the tell tale signs of a multiple account offender.

Seldom used for anything but for being critical to the point of slander of people engaged in honest discussions regarding Israel.

The recend thread and story about a small gang networking on Digg to supress news stories they didn't like from rising to the top of the listings displays the kind of tactics of organized groups like that and the Israeli Internet Defense League.

Clearly there is a dedicated albeit not very talented group within the Zionist community that likewise feels there is a real value in preventing people from having productive discussions and becoming aware of certain criminal activities that reflect poorly on Israel.

Which is a shame as people die routinely from black market operations by shady doctors in unsterile back rooms that often do involve some kind of organized criminal gang activity that is Israeli.

What a lot of people don't quite understand is that the Israeli gangs engaged in this practice are not always selling them to Israelis or Jews but to customers of all nationalities and religions for the extreme profit to be had.

It's a highly lucrative business, that is enticing to any criminal syndicate with the resources and logistics to facilitate the exchange and secure the product.

The proponderance of evidence does suggest that just like Columbian Gangs primarily control the Cocaine Trade, that Israeli Gangs primarily control the illegal Organ trafficking trade.

You would think honest Israelis would be as anxious to put an end to this and expose it as any other person, but evidently some don't feel that way.

Go figure.

Negative. because every time a thread is started regarding a crimne and another country, all the anti-Israeli's jump in and start talking about how bad Israel is.

So here is a taste of the medicine. =)

Originally posted by hippomchippo
Hey people saying this happens in other countries like china:
GO MAKE A THREAD ABOUT IT THEN
THIS thread is about an Israeli organ trafficking ring, and has NOTHING to do with antisemitism.

Originally posted by princeofpeace
Negative. because every time a thread is started regarding a crimne and another country, all the anti-Israeli's jump in and start talking about how bad Israel is.

So here is a taste of the medicine. =)

Originally posted by hippomchippo
Hey people saying this happens in other countries like china:
GO MAKE A THREAD ABOUT IT THEN
THIS thread is about an Israeli organ trafficking ring, and has NOTHING to do with antisemitism.

I agree, there is quite a bit of antisemitism in ATS, but not in this thread.
This thread was just about what happened to an israeli organ trafficking ring.
Then people brought up China doing the same thing for no reason other than to make it look normal or ok for israelis to do it, It's ridiculous.

And on the other side of the spectrum you have people who adamantly defend israel even in some of the most undefendable situations, it's just as bad on both sides.

[edit on 7-8-2010 by hippomchippo]

Originally posted by princeofpeace
Negative. because every time a thread is started regarding a crimne and another country, all the anti-Israeli's jump in and start talking about how bad Israel is.

So here is a taste of the medicine. =)

Originally posted by hippomchippo
Hey people saying this happens in other countries like china:
GO MAKE A THREAD ABOUT IT THEN
THIS thread is about an Israeli organ trafficking ring, and has NOTHING to do with antisemitism.

No one knows for certain yet to what extent Israeli Gangs have a monoploy on Organ Trafficking.

When the Turks and Cicillians had a monopoly on Heroin Trafficking people from those countries didn't go around bashing anyone who pointed it out.

They were wise enough to know that the actions of the few don't add up to a condemnation of all, even though obviously some stereo typing always takes place.

It would seem to me the easiest way for Israel to over come the stigma of being identified with this trade is Israel agressively pursuing the violators and putting an end to it.

If Israel can hunt down foreign nationals and exterminate them in other countries for crimes they feel they have committed against the Israeli State, then it has the means to deal with this problem, instead of pretending those critical of the practice of Organ Trafficking are the problem.

Once again "I think thou doest protest too much" and it only leads people to do precisely what you don't want them to do.

The criminal actions of one individual don't excuse the criminal actions of another, and while you are free to talk about other criminal organizations or states engaged in Organ Trafficking you aren't free to insult, belittle or harass fellow ATS members along personal lines.

It's against Terms of Service, so keep it on topic, keep it honest, and your arguments will become effective when you make some effective ones.

Thanks.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Interestingly enough the ATS profile displays someone who is obsessed with Israel issues, as well as all the tell tale signs of a multiple account offender.

Cringe - you see, dear, this is the kind of paranoid nonsense I'd expect from you.

"Oooh, he must have multiple accounts!" ... "Oooh, he's likely part of some Zionist internet ring!" N'aww, Colombo here's caught me out! Back to the drawing board.

You're a gem, ProtoplasmicTraveler, you're a gem.

Originally posted by chips
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Interestingly enough the ATS profile displays someone who is obsessed with Israel issues, as well as all the tell tale signs of a multiple account offender.

Cringe - you see, dear, this is the kind of paranoid nonsense I'd expect from you.

"Oooh, he must have multiple accounts!" ... "Oooh, he's likely part of some Zionist internet ring!" N'aww, Colombo here's caught me out! Back to the drawing board.

You're a gem, ProtoplasmicTraveler, you're a gem.

Lets see you have signed on three times and off three times in the last 15 minutes and your posting history speaks for itself.

But hey if you want to keep calling attention to yourself in your attempts to derail the thread and attack other members you can.

However the thread is about Israeli Organ Trafficking, something that judging by the popularity of the thread, it would seem it is a foregone conclusion in most people's minds that this is a given that Israel is doing this.

In fact you can present no evidence that Israel is not doing it.

Nor can you present any evidence that what law enforcement around the world keeps unearthing in regards to Israeli involvement is not just the tip of the iceberg.

So it would seem to me that you are actually promoting Israeli Organ Trafficking, since you are not concerned about it or speaking out against it.

Thanks.



[edit on 7/8/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Lets see you have signed on three times and off three times in the last 15 minutes and your posting history speaks for itself.

My posting history doesn't 'speak for itself,' dear - I can post on, and about, whatever topics I wish. That doesn't mean I'm part of some internet-based information suppression program for the Israeli government. And I always sign in and out of here, too - that doesn't mean I'm a 'multiple account offender,' either (which I'm not).

Nor do I condone or support organ trafficking if any kind, anywhere, ever.

reply to post by chips

Nor do I condone or support organ trafficking if any kind, anywhere, ever.

Congradulations your first ontopic statement.

Clearly my arguments are effective or I would not be singled out for the personal attacks, which is something that those who engage in them never seem to quite comprehend.

In fact because I have excellent situational awareness, it typically (always) backfires as a tactic, because such tactics are so transparent that it then leads to the attacker having to go on the defensive.

Such people know what they are doing and why, and so do I.

It's done to bait, inflame and take discussions off topic.

Now back on topic what remedial actions do you think are necessary in order to elinimate Israeli criminal gangs from the illegal black market organ trade.

Since you now state that you don't condone the trade, and the last year has yielded multiple arrests of Israelis involved in the trade, surely you must see a disturbing pattern there, that necessitates a stronger Israeli Government reaction in stopping the trade.

So what actions would you like to see the Israeli government take to stop Israelis from engaging in this trade?

Thanks.

Originally posted by princeofpeace
Its almost as bad as the human trafficking you read about every other day in CHINA!!

Lets see 1.3 billon people with the majority making like 30 bucks a month...its what we do not hear or read about that scares me the most.

Talking about body parts... So is it ok to donate to save a life? We see this all the time, right? But when someone sells one of their body parts we see it as a heinous act. Waking up in a bath tub of ice missing a part is a heinous act, but selling a part is a conscious act on the part of the donor. If I was rich enough and was going to die before I got to the top of the donor list I would pay anything I could…so who is the victim here?

reply to post by Xtrozero


The victims are the donors who can't legitimately sell their organs because of government regulations and codes, who then have to submit to often what are unsanitary and dangerous operating conditions to sell their organs.

I feel that the practice needs to be legalized so that people who do want to sell their organs can do it through properly credentialed and run medical facilities, so they don't take such a risk.

The volunteer system now being employed allows for the doctors and medical facilities performing the lawful operations to be compensated but not the donors themselves.

So I think it's wrong to allow a system where the doctors and hospitals involved in the voluntary donor program can make big bucks but the donors are cut out of the loop.

The laws make no sense to me, as clearly a lot of people would sell their organs if they had a chance to legitimately and safely profit of it, and there is a huge waiting list of people who need them.

So just like the War on Drugs it seems like the Government through short sightnedness is deliberately creating a black market.

Thanks.



[edit on 7/8/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler



It is all based on our righteous set of morals that sees such things as drugs for recreational use as either illegal or sin taxed, acts not done in some generous and non-self-fulfilling way as wrong, such as organ donation and viewing it wrong or bad to accomplish anything/working without “perceived” hard work involved such as prostitution.

We have a tendency to apply the term “sin” to all these self conscious acts and either apply negative consequences (such as tax) or we outright make them illegal to do. Why can’t I sell all my organs to the highest bidder so that once I do die they get them, or sell an extra one while I’m alive. As you suggest, the corruption in this and we can also say drugs, prostitution and many other areas, this corruption is only there while these acts are not legal and out in the open. Just look at Prohibition where liquor was still consumed but was made by organized crime.

reply to post by Xtrozero


Exactly demand is always going to create a supply one way or the other.

Sadly I think there is a dual standard being employed in regards to it as the illegal nature of some things create risks that then drives up prices. Many things on the black market would be a fraction of their cost if they were legally available through the normal lawful retail or service or medical segments of the economy.

Making these ‘sin’ or ‘indulgence’ related vices or desires illegal just creates a justification for overly intrusive government and regulatory laws that the state enhances itself through and profits off of. In addition to enriching criminal cartels that often pay off agents of the state to then facilitate their illicit trades.

Oddly enough because our concept of original sin, originates through Rome with the Judean concept of G-d and sin, Israel plays a larger role in this whole system than I think it citizens and those so religiously inclined perceive.

So in a lot of ways it would behoove the rest of humanity if Israel tried harder to get out in front of some of these quasi moral issues, because so many Christians have some varied degree of respect for the roots of the religion visa vi the Israeli and Judean culture.

So rather than hide the practice, or make excuses for it, they could be a catalyst for change as they obviously were to a certain extent thousands of years ago in influencing the Christian movement through their own religion and culture.

Israel is independent enough minded, and has a strong enough cadre of supporters that it could take some risks in this fashion in my humble opinion to lead the world out of what is still in many ways a dark age of mythical superstition based on some draconian concepts of God that really serve the state much better than humanity.

You should have a choice to use your own body and life as you see fit as long as it hurts no one else and I suspect it has more to do with the state controlling your existence as a regulated asset to it, than it does with any misconceptions about morality and sin.

It’s sold to us as being about virtue morality and sin, but the reason it’s being couched in that way is for control and profit over us.

I blame Rome far more than I do Israel for these concepts of sin and morality, but Israel is certainly in a position to start progressively moving humanity forward again out of this often self defeating and pointless morass.

I wish it were possible to have a more honest dialogue with it’s supporters in regards to that.

Thanks for a great post.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


But for Israel it is damn if they do and damn if they don't situation. Just think about it if they legalized donations, we would have people screaming that the Jews finally put a price of coppers to the value of priceless flesh.

Originally posted by Xtrozero
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

But for Israel it is damn if they do and damn if they don't situation. Just think about it if they legalized donations, we would have people screaming that the Jews finally put a price of coppers to the value of priceless flesh.

I don't think so, I know I wouldn't. Too many people legitimately need organs.

Of course getting other progressive nations to follow suit or start at the same time like Holand or Scandanavian Countries would help mitigate any of the detractors.

There will always be detractors especially amongst the no-stem cell research, anti-cloning, pro-life ultra Christian crowd because they are so fond of religious law.

Yet most religious law is actually Talmudic Law so the people in the best position to change those laws are the Judeans.

This is all part of the problem of having a monotheist system with a non-interactive diety is that everything is permanently locked in stone and frozen in place for a world that in many ways has evolved beyond that.

Insanity by sheer definition is doing the same old things that don't work again and again.

Further it shouldn't matter what others say, or think, when morally you know you are truly saving lives and enhancing the quality of life through others.

Unless one does become dependent on the charity of others, and in my humble opinion much of Israel's arguments is a fear of persecution that turns to blood letting, but it seems to me currently it's more about a fear of developing a image that would negate charity from some it has to maintain a 'God's chosen people' status with to be the recipient of that charity.

So Israel becoming truly independent through self dependence would give it the opportunity to develop the true leadership role it truly seems to crave.

By more honestly defining itself it could do that.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

I love your writings and you are one of my ATS faves. However on this i have to say that as ex IDF myself, none of my guys would have even dreamed of such goulish acts...And if they did? I would have killed them myself., I m not even joking... I would have literally killed my own men for such acts...

Not everythingis about rome or zionism... This is all due to the greed of men

The world would not mourn the loss of such people be Jew or Gentile.,

[edit on 7-8-2010 by Yissachar1]

Originally posted by Yissachar1
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

I love your writings and you are one of my ATS faves. However on this i have to say that as ex IDF myself, none of my guys would have even dreamed of such goulish acts...And if they did? I would have killed them myself., I m not even joking... I would have literally killed my own men for such acts...

Not everythingis about rome or zionism... This is all due to the greed of men

The world would not mourn the loss of such people be Jew or Gentile.,

[edit on 7-8-2010 by Yissachar1]

Hey my friend, I am not talking about some of the unproven allegations of IDF organ harvesting.

In fact I am really more interested in seeing if nations like Israel could help change the laws regarding Organ Transplants.

Right now here in the U.S. they are only legal if the Donor volunteers their organ through either an anonymous process that matches it to a needy recipient, or to a immediate family member.

It doesn't allow for someone strapped for cash to sell one of their organs.

Israel has no more chance at stopping Israeli's from getting involved in the black market than they do the Chinese or Indians or Russians.

So the solution is to eliminate the black market to make it legal.

Since Israel is often in the center of this controversy and some do look to it as a moral authority of sorts, it would be in a very good position to revolutionize the way organ transplants are done.

Oh and yes, it always has something to do with Rome!

Thanks my friend, I hope all is well.