So if Germany started both world wars....

Originally posted by BLV12
Why are we not just full blown chastizing germany?? does time heal all wounds?

Originally posted by redseal
Because Germany has paid war reparations in full and in part to all countries it attacked. It also doesn't go around the world invading countries today. It's a different Germany, were Nazism is banned. Understand?
Why would you as an American chastisize Germany over WW2? It was NAZI scientists which helped advance American weapons programs. Be thankful or you wouldn't be the world super power today without them.

Banned?!? Last time I googled German and Austrian message boards there were still lots of Nazis on them. Especially areas of Austria that still go around bashing other ethnic groups and gays. Trying googling forums in the German language and see for yourself.

As for Nazi scientists "advancing" American weapons programs...boy are you full of it. Most of the Germans in American weapons programs FLED the Nazis in WWII. Many were German Jews. Anything post WWII was either SS doctors being cut deals to exchange information (since the German doctors burned truckloads of documents and escaped). Or COMPETITION in post WWII situations, competition between Bayer doctors/scientists competing against Americans.

Originally posted by BLV12
Seems wierd to me that Germany just gets a free pass on all of this racial clensing stuff.

Originally posted by redseal
Germany didn't get a free pass. It was occupied by Allied forces, and still has forces from those same allied countries occupying military bases on German soil, the biggest contingent of which is American.
Germany also paid reparations to countries, some in full some in part.
Germany is also reminded constantly of it's past with Holocaust memorials.

Well, you know...that was a bunk deal. It should have been IG Farben paying the reparations since they funded the war especially in cases of genocide whether during WWII or AFTER. German citizens may have paid for it, but IG Farben (Bayer, Hoechst-Aventis, BASF) sure didn't pay. They profit. For every sick minority group, for every sick homosexual, for every sick person who is black--they have to buy Bayer meds. For every sick American poisoned by Bayer, Aventis-Crop Science or BASF pesticide/herbicide...Bayer profits. Double profit. They sell the pesticides/herbicides to American farmers then profit off sick Americans who have to buy their meds.

So no! Bayer/IG Farben still hasn't appropriately PAID. See below.

Originally posted by homebrew8537
True, Germany did start two world wars. Both of which were funded by American money.

No. Both German wars were funded by IG Farben a pharmaceutical company. America had nothing to do with funding it. IG Farben was split into Bayer, Hoescht-Aventis and BASF at the end of WWII. Bayer continued its Nazi behavior in various countries around the world outside of Germany: South Africa and other African countries, SE Asia, and even the US. Hoechst-Aventis was bought out by Sanofi (French) except for the Aventis Crop Science department which was bought back by Bayer. Then Bayer bought back BASF. Realistically Bayer still wants to reacquire the rest of Hoechst-Aventis that Sanofi owns, but they'll probably have to put Sanofi under to get it back.

WWIII--the silent biological and chemical war around the world was technically started by Nazis working for Bayer. Aventis-the crop science-section wasn't innocent either even if Sanofi bought it. (chemical pesticides and herbicides sprayed on foods around the globe). Have no doubt Bayer will fund another WW, they always do. Another silent biological/chemical war again? or a full-scale combat war? They are already doing quite well waging a financial war against all of Europe and the United States. Revenge of Bayer for splitting up their corporation which is now almost all re-united.

And the German people have never tried to control their pharmaceutical corporation. Same problem the Germans had which started WWI and WWII. Funded by their pharmaceutical corporation. So nothing's changed on that angle at all with the German people and who's funded their previous wars.

BIG HINT Germans: Ever hear of anti-trust laws? Try creating, passing and enforcing them sometime! Those in charge of medications should never be given rights to sell GMO foods which make people sick, nor sell pesticides/herbicides which make people sick. And while at it, never give one company GLOBAL patents over testing, nor medicines for bioweapons (like Anthrax). Too dangerous.

Those who have not learned from the mistakes of the past are doomed to repeat them.

this thread died once, cant we all get along.

reading through this thread I notice one thing...

...americans giving arrogant comments about other countries..

The USA involved themselves in WWII because of japan, not germany. The USA fought germany, yet only defeated germany accompanied by their allies. If you seriously believe "You" could have done the same without your allies you should reconsider your intelligence. To be precise, it was russia who conquered berlin, so technically spoken, russia defeat germany.
Why pick on germany? genocide during WWII......well, it wasnt "germany" who committed those crimes, it was the national socialsts. Many nations have committed genocide during history including the USA, yet noone speaks about any of that. Noone talks about the mass murders committed in romania or russia.

Either we can keep picking on the past, and the mistakes people before us have made, OR we can look into the future, and resolve current and future problems.

And the German people have never tried to control their pharmaceutical corporation. Same problem the Germans had which started WWI and WWII. Funded by their pharmaceutical corporation.

now now, that sounds very condescending for an american..... how about you try and control your Banks before going all lecture and stuff..

Originally posted by spaznational

They literally have no concept of individualism, self-determination, or freedom.

If America is the shining bastion of Individualism , self determination and ( ) Freedom. Then you can keep it, I'll stay here.

Originally posted by Pakd-on-mystery
The USA involved themselves in WWII because of japan, not germany.

True. 7 Dec 1941 drove the US to actual war. Before that, we were just supplying arms and equipment. The US figured that we'd be at war with Japan in the Spring/Summer of 1942.

Originally posted by Pakd-on-mystery
The USA fought germany, yet only defeated germany accompanied by their allies. If you seriously believe "You" could have done the same without your allies you should reconsider your intelligence. To be precise, it was russia who conquered berlin, so technically spoken, russia defeat germany.

Uh, what? You said that the US defeated Germany with our allies, yet then said that Russia defeated Germany by conquering Berlin. Well, what is it then?

And it must have slipped your mind all the air raids that the USAAF and RAF were conducting on Berlin long before the Soviets ever crossed into Germany.

Originally posted by Pakd-on-mystery
Why pick on germany? genocide during WWII......well, it wasnt "germany" who committed those crimes, it was the national socialsts. Many nations have committed genocide during history including the USA, yet noone speaks about any of that. Noone talks about the mass murders committed in romania or russia.

Well, a fair amount of Germans were National Socialists, if you did a bit of research.

And the US committing genocide? When?

And I for one always bring up genocide that was committed by the Soviets.

Originally posted by Pakd-on-mystery
Either we can keep picking on the past, and the mistakes people before us have made, OR we can look into the future, and resolve current and future problems.

Forget your past, you're doomed to repeat it.

OK, already...I am now officially chastising Germany. Germany did very bad things unlike the historically perfect country of...um, ah....hmmmmmmmmm

I'll get back to you.

Originally posted by redseal
Seems odd to me that their are so many USA haters on here... I mean for fooks sake when did the USA ever kill a few million jews? Why are we not just full blown chastizing germany?? does time heal all wounds? and if so why isnt the USA who wasnt the last nor the inventor of slavery ever cut some slack??? Why dont we ever hear about the africans who sold their own into slavery?? Seems so easy just to blame the red white and blue for everything when in fact you me and he would speaking german with out them.

Germany started 2 world wars, and the USA cleaned up the clutter, yet it is us who get the bulk of your crap... no Hitler ever came from the USA....

Seems wierd to me that Germany just gets a free pass on all of this racial clensing stuff.

F the USA right, I always wanted to speak German anyway!!!!!!!!!!

Bad USA, Good Germany starters of 2 world wars....

What the FCK ever!!!!!!!!!!!

Coming from a man who discribes his mood as: Hungover.

No Americans are nice
www.time.com...

Don't look at the prison tortures they did, don't look at the humilliation they did there, don't look at the innocent civilians they killed and kept ears as trophies.

No we must not look at that! Americans are nice they do nothing wrong.

Stop dwelling in the past.

Very good post. because of the re'plys.
armerica makes a mess of it.
thats why they are bad.
its a dictater ship.
just most dont see it yet.

I would say that, in my opinion, people do not hate Americans - they hate the policies of US Governments.

I also believe this to be true for Israel.

yup, it appears the the Germans have now teamed up with the Britan-USA empire to put the world under economic slavery.

reply to post by redseal


"Germany started 2 world wars, and the USA cleaned up the clutter, yet it is us who get the bulk of your crap... no Hitler ever came from the USA...."

You are so misinformed.

Perhaps, big perhaps, the Poles had not started ethnic cleansing of Germans on Poland's soil (pre 1939) Hitler would not have had an excuse to invade.
When Hitlers troops marched in to the Rhineland, why didn't the French kick them out? no wonder Hitler thought the French were weak!

I would just like to add that although Germany did 'officially' start both world wars, the first of these at least was 'in the brewing' and the assasination of Archduke Ferdinand was simply the catalyst (and that wasn't done by the Germans).

I feel pretty sorry for the Germans. Im British and proud of my nation. I love Dads Army, Allo Allo, etc. That doesn't mean i hate Germany. In the past, they fought 2 global wars. So what? All nations fight wars. Germany's biggest crime (obviously excluding genocide in WW2) appears to be starting them in a century where we had the technology as a species to go truly global in scale with some horrendous weaponry.

On the plus side, we developed Jet engines as a species from that conflict. We developed electronically programmable computers, RADAR, etc, etc. War is responsible for all of the greatest technological advances in humanity. This may be unpalatable but it is also true - as a species we thrive on war.

Personally, i detest war but i have to acknowledge what it has given us.

Finally, how you can you seriously hold a grudge against a nation of whom the majority were not even born when these acts were committed? Even most of the older Germans alive now would only have been children during the war.........

reply to post by redseal


"Expert Thinker" or so your title says.

The U.S. has been the dominant World Power for the last 75 or so years, the role always gets you vilified. Soon China will get the same treatment as did England before us.

Just for the record, don't make it sound as if the U.S. alone won WWII. Take a look at the losses Russia suffered, they are horrendous. It took the combined effort of ALL the Allies to win the war. To state things as you did belittles the sacrifices and losses of all the other nations involved in defeating the Axis powers.

Um, google 'starving Germans 1945', a real eye opener, seems that Eisenhower ordered the starvation of German troops under American control, also food aid from Switzerland was turned back, and Wheat from north America to Germany was cut back, I was truly shocked reading it all.

Someone remind the OP what country in the world is the only one to have used TWO nuclear bombs and killed hundreds of thousands instantly?

I enjoy reading about the 'american freedom' and how 'us europeans' have been under the thumb for centuries. Ironic coming from someone who's country is religion mad. Britain still has religious people, but I do not know a single person that goes to church still, or takes religion seriously, and I've lived all over Britain.

Remember, your country wouldn't be the way it is if it wasn't for 'us europeans', your flag is based on the British Trading Company flag, your national anthem is the tune to an old English drinking song, and half of the cities/towns in the British side of America are named after ours. WE Europeans stole America from the REAL Americans in the 15/16th century. Your great George Washington's family history is directly descended from British relatives in England, ironically he fought the British (his Great-grandfathers family) in the Revolutionary war.

Also ironically, european countries helped these 'colonists' defeat us British in that war, why ironic? Well, the amount of times I hear americans saying "well we helped you in WW2", that's why. Considering these european countries helped you actually become independent, it was pretty much repaying the favour.

And these countries helped the colonists, not because of care for your independence but more because Great Britain was a (if not THE) major world power at the time, whilst we were having a war across the sea in America, we were an easy target for France, Spain and every other country who wanted to have a pop.

Don't get me wrong, I think it is great that the colonists at the time were declared independence from what seemed an unfair tax law, but so much of American history is ignored by (ironically) so many Americans, they forget where their country evolved from.

To be honest, I think it's evolved into a massive mess of 'constitutional laws', 'rights's and 'freedom' that every american declares they have. Do not get me started on the 'gun law' thing, jesus.

Anyway, about Germany... hah.

Originally posted by Lister87
Remember, your country wouldn't be the way it is if it wasn't for 'us europeans', your flag is based on the British Trading Company flag, your national anthem is the tune to an old English drinking song, and half of the cities/towns in the British side of America are named after ours. WE Europeans stole America from the REAL Americans in the 15/16th century. Your great George Washington's family history is directly descended from British relatives in England, ironically he fought the British (his Great-grandfathers family) in the Revolutionary war.

Considering these european countries helped you actually become independent, it was pretty much repaying the favour.

And that's the British misconception of America.

The British stayed under monarchy rule for hundreds of years after Americans gave the monarchy the bird. And the reason has nothing to do with the British at all. It has to do with the interaction between Native Americans and the colonists.

It was Native American tribes that had a representive government. Every tribe member voted. In the northeast United States, colonists interacted with tribes like the Iroquois who had a representative government. Their chiefs were elected. In the southern states, colonists interacted with the Five Civilized Tribes of the South, such as the Cherokee, Chickasaw and Choctaws. Those tribes had a representative government, each tribe member voting and chiefs elected.

Because the colonists saw the Native American forms of government, how they all voted, how chiefs were elected and lack of monarchies--the colonists realized that we didn't need the monarchy. Native Americans lived without monarchies for thousands of years. The colonists wanted the type of government that the Native Americans had.

And that's why Americans gave the bird to the British monarchy and drafted up a government modeled off the Native American style of government. So we owe the British nothing. The idea came from Native American tribes living in America and not Brits nor Europeans at the beck and call of their monarchies.

Native Americans gave the idea to the colonists, an idea which Brits and Europeans never got because you didn't interact with Native Americans in Europe the way the colonists did.

Europeans stayed with their monarchs like dummies for hundreds of years after the American Revolution because Europeans never interacted with Native Americans, nor saw their form of representative government where everyone got to vote and chiefs were elected.

So spare us with the crap about the Brits creating our American government. It was the Red Skinned men and women--Indians who gave the colonists the idea. Europeans didn't have the intelligence to come up with it on their own--Europeans continued to bow to their monarchs until WWI, and some still do bow to their monarchs today.

OP not an personal attack,

Just an thought for you,

You live in the usa right?

What water have you been drinking?

Bottled?

Tap?

Any Fluoride in it?

Why is the USA government forcing the same chemical weapon it used against those in the concentration camps on american civilians?

Look into why the Nazis used it on the Jews.

Nuff said imho.

Kind Regards,

Elf

Originally posted by Pakd-on-mystery

And the German people have never tried to control their pharmaceutical corporation. Same problem the Germans had which started WWI and WWII. Funded by their pharmaceutical corporation.

now now, that sounds very condescending for an american..... how about you try and control your Banks before going all lecture and stuff..

I guess you misunderstood my point.

IG Farben/Bayer was the pharmaceutical company that started and funded WWII. They did it for money. I know the history books blame Hitler (an individual) but it was not an individual that started the war. It takes money and power to start a war. Hitler definitely didn't have the money. IG Farben/Bayer did.

IG Farben/Bayer was a billion dollar pharmaceutical company. They knew if they started the concentration camps that they could profit off the war. They were selling the gas to kill off all the people in the camps. When it came to all the unethical experiments in the concentration camps it was IG Farben/Bayer behind the whole thing.
1. IG Farben/Bayer would request healthy Jews, gypsies, gays, POWs, etc. and inject them with diseases like typhoid, hepatitis and others for IG Farben/Bayer research. Sometimes they would give them experimental meds to see if they could cure them. But even if the meds worked at the end of each experiment, those injected were gased. They profited. They billed the German people for each medical experiment and the German citizens paid.
2. IG Farben/Bayer would request healthy Jews, gypsies, gays, POWs, etc. and transplant cancer cells into their bodies to infect them with cancer on purpose. Then they would try experimental meds to see if they had any effect on the cancer. If any experimental med worked, made no difference at the end of the experiment healthy people purposely infected were gased.
3. IG Farben/Bayer would request healthy Jews, gypsies, gays, POWs, etc. and do radiation experiments on their healthy bodies. In the case of gay men, they would expose their genitals to high doses of radiation and x-rays just to see what it would do.
4. IG Farben/Bayer did the entire sterilization program, whether it was sterilizing Jews or those in mental hospitals. Each time they sterilized someone, THAT COST was billed to the German people. They profited while German citizens footed the bill to them.
5. IG Farben/Bayer funded the entire Euthanasia program, killing Jews, gypsies, gays, POWs, hemophiliacs, anyone that they deemed at the point of a finger would die. They sold the gas and the facilities to the German government and the German citizens footed the bill for the whole thing. They profited.
6. IG Farben/Bayer funded all the chemical weapons for WWII. Mustard gas and every other chemical weapon. They profited.

Are you catching on, that IG Farben/Bayer profited during the whole war at the expense of the German citizens footing the bill?

As a condition of the end of WWII, punishment for IG Farben/Bayer was that it was split into 3 companies dividing the giant that started the war in hopes of preventing them from doing it again.

IG Farben was split into Bayer, Hoechst-Aventis, and BASF. But after the 50 year period, they began buying back the 3 to become the giant that started the war in the first place. Bayer bought back BASF. A French company bought Hoechst-Aventis to become Sanofi-Aventis. Then Bayer bullied Sanofi, and bought back a portion of Hoechst-Aventis, or Aventis crop science division. And Bayer keeps trying to bully Sanofi to buy back the rest of the company to restore itself to what it was during WWII.

Which means that Bayer is the size again to be able to fund or start any German war at the expense of the German people.

There's this thing called anti-trust laws to prevent corporations from becoming these kinds of giants to stop them from having that much power. And the German people have never enacted such laws. You should. Americans enacted anti-trust laws to stop monopolies and corporation giants. We did it to stop the Standard Oil monopoly. And more recently, anti-trust laws were used to stop the monopoly of Bell, the phone company allowing competition of other telephone service companies.

But since the Germans haven't enacted any anti-trust laws on Bayer, Bayer controls Germany again. They buy your politicians. No politician can make it into office unless they are backed by Bayer. Which is the same situation in politics before WWII. Bayer controls Germany, because they have the money. When it should be the Germans controlling Bayer. Checks and balances are needed against the giant corporation because without them at any time they could literally use their multi-billion corporation to start another world war.

As for banks....Bayer controls the banks with their billion dollar corporation. Banks are at their beck and call in Germany.

Do you understand my point now? They profit off war.

Originally posted by redseal
Seems odd to me that their are so many USA haters on here... I mean for fooks sake when did the USA ever kill a few million jews? Why are we not just full blown chastizing germany?? does time heal all wounds? and if so why isnt the USA who wasnt the last nor the inventor of slavery ever cut some slack??? Why dont we ever hear about the africans who sold their own into slavery?? Seems so easy just to blame the red white and blue for everything when in fact you me and he would speaking german with out them.

Germany started 2 world wars, and the USA cleaned up the clutter, yet it is us who get the bulk of your crap... no Hitler ever came from the USA....

Seems wierd to me that Germany just gets a free pass on all of this racial clensing stuff.

F the USA right, I always wanted to speak German anyway!!!!!!!!!!



Bad USA, Good Germany starters of 2 world wars....

What the FCK ever!!!!!!!!!!!

I think you are forgetting all the north American Indians who died from gunshots, starvation, and pox infected blankets